Dr. Tommy Curry - Failure of Black Studies and Intersectionality

[AlainLocke]

"NOT JUST ABOUT....

Patriarchy is not just about power in economics, political leadership, etc --- it’s the natural structure of family, moral authority, social and gender privilege and it's roles.​

They don't all have to be available or held - that's my whole point. And it's many BM that are fathers, father figures and over and leading their families and households -- and are taught to do so.

Black feminists are talking about Black men being systemically oppressive towards Black women when they say the word patriarchy.

We aren't debating whether or not Black men can lead families..and households.

There really should be another word for it instead of patriarchy.

We are talking about Black men creating a society that puts them at an advantage over Black women in every facet of it.

Black feminists are essentially talking about there being a privilege to being a Black male over a Black woman.

 

[Remo]

"NOT JUST ABOUT....

Patriarchy is not just about power in economics, political leadership, etc --- it’s the natural structure of family, moral authority, social and gender privilege and it's roles.​

They don't all have to be available or held - that's my whole point. And it's many BM that are fathers, father figures and over and leading their families and households -- and are taught to do so.

I know what the sentence says. on a collective level who has more of the qualities listed bm or bw?

 

[xoxodede]

I think you are misunderstanding the term patriarchy in the gender sense...men leading families...and societies

And patriarchy in the feminist sense...

A system where men have power and they dominate and oppress people, mainly women. That's the main function of a patriarchy according to women.

Black feminists are talking about Black men oppressing Black women when they are talking about patriarchy.

They aren't talking about their dad's leading families or being a leader in the neighborhood.

They are taken about Black men wielding dominating and oppressive power.

Yvette Carnell's point, Dr. Tommy Curry's point and Antonio Moore's point is...

Black men don't have power like that, cause if we did...we wouldn't be the ones dying in the streets, getting locked up and letting Black women be breadwinners and college educated.

Black feminists ignore this and say, "We are oppressed by Black men."

I am not against Black women, I am against Black feminists who parrot this myth that Black men have a patriarchy. That parrot the myth of Black male toxicity and etc and etc.

Black feminists are talking about Black men oppressing Black women when they are talking about patriarchy. They are taken about Black men wielding dominating and oppressive power.

But, the issue is SOME are though. Oppression in the sense of silencing, dismissing, or yes -- practicing misogynoir.

I am not against Black women, I am against Black feminists who parrot this myth that Black men have a patriarchy. That parrot the myth of Black male toxicity and etc and etc.

I hate all these definitions and terms - but I just Google it this. And this can be white, black, latino, asian - so it's real.

Some people take it too far - that's not saying ALL Black men are practicing or walking around with "Black male Toxicity." Sadly, many BM are not allowed to show their emotional range and feelings - and it builds up and sometimes comes out the wrong way.

Toxic masculinity is defined by adherence to traditional male gender roles that restrict the kinds of emotions allowable for boys and men to express, including social expectations that men seek to be dominant (the "alpha male") and limit their emotional range primarily to expressions of anger.

Contemporary expectations of masculinity can produce such "toxic" effects as violence (including sexual assault and domestic violence), "sexual excess" (promiscuity), excessively risky and/or socially irresponsible behaviors including substance abuse, and dysfunction in relationships.[10] These cultural norms can be problematic in the context of American prisons, where toxic masculinity is reflected in the behavior of both male staff and inmates. The qualities of extreme self-reliance, domination of other men through violence, and avoiding the appearance of either femininity or weakness, comprise an unspoken code among prisoners.[11][12] Suppressing vulnerable emotions is often adopted in order to successfully cope with the harsh conditions of prison life, defined by punishment, social isolation, and aggression. These factors likely play a role in suicide among male prisoners.[11][13]
​

Black men don't have power like that, cause if we did...we wouldn't be the ones dying in the streets, getting locked up and letting Black women be breadwinners and college educated.

I get that, but that doesn't make sense to me - and most people.

 

[xoxodede]

I know what the sentence says. on a collective level who has more of the qualities listed bm or bw?

Let me guess what you are going to say ..BW huh?

This isn't going to go anywhere. But, thanks for your response.

 

[Remo]

 

[Lord_Chief_Rocka]

Black Women have no power over black men. Women can suggest but they cannot dictate. Black men are in the position that they are in because other men have placed them in that position.

 

[Lord_Chief_Rocka]

"NOT JUST ABOUT....

Patriarchy is not just about power in economics, political leadership, etc --- it’s the natural structure of family, moral authority, social and gender privilege and it's roles.​

They don't all have to be available or held - that's my whole point. And it's many BM that are fathers, father figures and over and leading their families and households -- and are taught to do so.

Your argument is just completely ridiculous

Black women do better than black men in virtually every standard of living metric.............but the black community is patriarchal

 

[xoxodede]

Your argument is just completely ridiculous

Black women do better than black men in virtually every standard of living metric.............but the black community is patriarchal

You want to keep the limited definition — not all facets of the definition.

So, I’ll leave - as it will be a one-sided convo anyway.

Carry on bruhs.

*Inserts Coli emoji*

 

[Asicz]

@xoxodede
Tommy Curry has argued that the majority of black women do not adhere to the type of anti black male propaganda that some black feminist and feminists spew. That those views aren't held by the "everyday black woman" especially working class and non professional class black women.

Tommy Curry received death threats and had to move his family because he posed the question about whites having to die so that black people can achieve liberation/ act in self defense.

He is very critical and out spoken about white supramicist, not just feminist.

 

[Kitsch]

Lol.

 

[Indiglow Meta (R$G)]

You want to keep the limited definition — not all facets of the definition.

So, I’ll leave - as it will be a one-sided convo anyway.

Carry on bruhs.

*Inserts Coli emoji*

This feminist culture of revision and redefinition is why intersectionality fails.
You also used the term "toxic masculinity"...Something stolen from a white male men's rights movement.
Y'all can't even write your own bars, nor can the white women who put the initial battery in the first self proclaimed black feminist's back.
Citations and data supersede revision, calls to emotion, and quoting "authority".

 

[xoxodede]

@xoxodede
Tommy Curry has argued that the majority of black women do not adhere to the type of anti black male propaganda that some black feminist and feminists spew. That those views aren't held by the "everyday black woman" especially working class and non professional class black women.

Tommy Curry received death threats and had to move his family because he posed the question about whites having to die so that black people can achieve liberation/ act in self defense.

He is very critical and out spoken about white supramicist, not just feminist.

Thank you for responding -- and respectfully -- that always means a lot to me. Thanks.

A few questions....

-- Does Dr. Curry discuss anti-bw propaganda, attitudes and comments?

-- Does Dr. Curry make sure that while he calls out Black feminist/feminism - he is consistent and equal in condemning anti-bw comments and behaviors by BM? Cause the BM who are against said Black feminist/feminism --- are vocally disrespectful and more than often go at, direct that energy to -- and accuse "everyday" BW --- not these specific Black feminist Dr. Curry condemns.

-- What would BM who make anti-BW comments about "everyday BW" --- be labeled as?

-- Would these men be "Black masculinist" or "Black masculist?" Meaning: An advocate of the rights or needs of Black men/boys.
If so, why would they have to be against and negative about "everyday BW" while advocating for BM. Especially, when -- as you and Dr. Curry stated -- most BW do not uphold anti-BM feelings or behaviors.

For instance, what would the late Stephon Clark be labeled as?

Would "intersectionality" or "misogynoir" be included when discussing and labeling him and how he felt about BW?

Would it be "intra-racial" discrimination? Would it be intra-racial gender racism/discrimination?
Meaning he was a BM - and he was Anti-BW - for whatever reason. One can say he has the right to feel that way --and keep it private to himself -- but was out and socially open about it. He didn't say anything about BM - but specifically BW.

I'm asking all of this to figure out how this all works.

 

[Indiglow Meta (R$G)]

If you want to read about "bad black men" and one-sided studies talking about half of bidirectional domestic violence between black men and women, specifically the man's part, and "black male pathology", there are 40 years worth of uncited anecdotes by "scholars" like bell hooks, Michele Wallace, and white-fraternity member Kimberle Crenshaw.


Dr. Curry is merely deconstructing their theories with DATA and providing a fresh analysis on the black man and boy without misandrist bias.

 

[xoxodede]

This feminist culture of revision and redefinition is why intersectionality fails.
You also used the term "toxic masculinity"...Something stolen from a white male men's rights movement.
Y'all can't even write your own bars, nor can the white women who put the initial battery in the first self proclaimed black feminist's back.
Citations and data supersede revision, calls to emotion, and quoting "authority".

Can you explain what you mean by "revision" and redefinition?"

Because, if you are directing that to me explaining the definition of "Patriarchy"-- it's not revised. The definition being used by many here is "limited." It can deal with everything from economics to familial to social structure.

Social Structure: the internal institutionalized relationships built up by persons living within a group (such as a family or community) especially with regard to the hierarchical organization of status and to the rules and principles regulating behavior ; the social organization of a society constituting an integrated whole.​

The original definition: "the rule of the father" and comes from the Greek πατριάρχης (patriarkhēs),"father of a race" or "chief of a race, patriarch",which is a compound of πατριά (patria),"lineage, descent"(fromπατήρ patēr,"father") and ἄρχω (arkhō),"I rule."

More...

Patriarchy is a social structural phenomenon in which males have the privilege of dominance over females, both visibly and subliminally. This phenomenon is manifested in the values, attitudes, customs, expectations, and institutions of the society, and it is maintained through the process of socialization.

Patriarchy refers to a male dominated social structure in which men are more powerful and influential than women in society, economy, politics and even household relations.

Patriarchy is a structural notion that sees the organisation of the social world arranged for the benefit of, and controlled by, men.

Wiki definition:
In sociology, patriarchy is a social system in which males hold primary power and predominate in roles of political leadership, moral authority, social privilege and control of property. In the domain of the family, fathers or father-figures hold authority over women and children. Some patriarchal societies are also patrilineal, meaning that property and title are inherited by the male lineage. Historically, patriarchy has manifested itself in the social, legal, political, religious and economic organization of a range of different cultures. Even if not explicitly defined to be by their own constitutions and laws, most contemporary societies are, in practice, patriarchal.​

Who are "y'all" -- against "everyday BW -- or said Black feminist?

And what definitions or "BARS" are original to Black people in general when discussing any of this?

Can you offer any citations or data to explain what you mean?


BTW ..Check this out - written by a Black man/author/lawyer I know.

Black Male Exceptionalism? The Problems and Potential of Black Male-Focused Intervention

https://scholarship.law.georgetown.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2323&context=facpub
Profile Paul Butler — Georgetown Law

Abstract

“Black male exceptionalism” is the premise that African American men fare more poorly than any other group in the United States. The discourse of Black male exceptionalism presents African American men as an “endangered species.” Some government agencies, foundations, and activists have responded by creating “Black male achievement” programs. There are almost no corresponding “Black female achievement” programs. Yet empirical data does not support the claim that Black males are burdened more than Black females. Without attention to intersectionality, Black male achievement programs risk obscuring Black females and advancing patriarchal values. Black male achievement programs also risk reinforcing stereotypes that African American males are violent and dangerous. An intersectional approach would create space for Black male focused interventions, but require parity for Black female programs.​

 

[Kitsch]

If you want to read about "bad black men" and one-sided studies talking about half of bidirectional domestic violence between black men and women, specifically the man's part, and "black male pathology", there are 40 years worth of uncited anecdotes by "scholars" like bell hooks, Michele Wallace, and white-fraternity member Kimberle Crenshaw.


Dr. Curry is merely deconstructing their theories with DATA and providing a fresh analysis on the black man and boy without misandrist bias.

I feel like she just enjoys arguing with peolpe.