Dr. Tommy Curry - Failure of Black Studies and Intersectionality

[Indiglow Meta (R$G)]

Can you explain what you mean by "revision" and redefinition?"

Because, if you are directing that to me explaining the definition of "Patriarchy"-- it's not revised. The definition being used by many here is "limited." It can deal with everything from economics to familial to social structure.

Social Structure: the internal institutionalized relationships built up by persons living within a group (such as a family or community) especially with regard to the hierarchical organization of status and to the rules and principles regulating behavior ; the social organization of a society constituting an integrated whole.​

The original definition: "the rule of the father" and comes from the Greek πατριάρχης (patriarkhēs),"father of a race" or "chief of a race, patriarch",which is a compound of πατριά (patria),"lineage, descent"(fromπατήρ patēr,"father") and ἄρχω (arkhō),"I rule."

More...

Patriarchy is a social structural phenomenon in which males have the privilege of dominance over females, both visibly and subliminally. This phenomenon is manifested in the values, attitudes, customs, expectations, and institutions of the society, and it is maintained through the process of socialization.

Patriarchy refers to a male dominated social structure in which men are more powerful and influential than women in society, economy, politics and even household relations.

Patriarchy is a structural notion that sees the organisation of the social world arranged for the benefit of, and controlled by, men.

Wiki definition:
In sociology, patriarchy is a social system in which males hold primary power and predominate in roles of political leadership, moral authority, social privilege and control of property. In the domain of the family, fathers or father-figures hold authority over women and children. Some patriarchal societies are also patrilineal, meaning that property and title are inherited by the male lineage. Historically, patriarchy has manifested itself in the social, legal, political, religious and economic organization of a range of different cultures. Even if not explicitly defined to be by their own constitutions and laws, most contemporary societies are, in practice, patriarchal.​

Who are "y'all" -- against "everyday BW -- or said Black feminist?

And what definitions or "BARS" are original to Black people in general when discussing any of this?

While you offer any citations or data to explain what you mean?


BTW ..Check this out - written by a Black man/author/lawyer I know.

Black Male Exceptionalism? The Problems and Potential of Black Male-Focused Intervention

https://scholarship.law.georgetown.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2323&context=facpub
Profile Paul Butler — Georgetown Law

Abstract

“Black male exceptionalism” is the premise that African American men fare more poorly than any other group in the United States. The discourse of Black male exceptionalism presents African American men as an “endangered species.” Some government agencies, foundations, and activists have responded by creating “Black male achievement” programs. There are almost no corresponding “Black female achievement” programs. Yet empirical data does not support the claim that Black males are burdened more than Black females. Without attention to intersectionality, Black male achievement programs risk obscuring Black females and advancing patriarchal values. Black male achievement programs also risk reinforcing stereotypes that African American males are violent and dangerous. An intersectional approach would create space for Black male focused interventions, but require parity for Black female programs.​

We don't hold primary leadership in the community.
Black female social programs outnumber black male social programs.
Black women have more gender-race, race, and gender specific scholarships and foundations.
Black women are beating black men in every quality of life metric.
72% of black children, both male and female, are born to black mothers alone.
Semantics? Just semantics and wordplay.
You can't beat the data. We're in a matriarchal state controlled by an outside patriarchy, and gendered racism affects black men in a unique manner.

 

[Asicz]

@xoxodede Uh I have listened to maybe 3 videos/podcast of him and check out his twitter post and I have not read his book yet.

In the talks I don't recall him discussing particular anti bw comments. Possibly because the focus of the convo was around black male studies?

Here is a tweet from Dr. Curry. about Stephon Clarke comments about dark skin women and the controversy connected to it.

Black Thought Thinking (@DrTJC) on Twitter

"This is similar to what happened to Eric Garner as well. If Mr.Clarke does not like dark skinned Black women how is that relevant to his death or who he is? So our biases mean what exactly? Tweets or offensive thoughts are not disenfranchisement."

-- Does Dr. Curry make sure that while he calls out Black feminist/feminism - he is consistent and equal in condemning anti-bw comments and behaviors by BM? Cause the BM who are against said Black feminist/feminism --- are vocally disrespectful and more than often go at and accuse "everyday" BW --- and not these specific Black feminist Dr. Curry condemns.

In the interviews I have seen I don't him recall discussing the things you mention. Again I think it may be because of the focus on black male as the subject matter and the question was not brought up.

What would BM who make comments or feel some type of way about BW - "everyday BW" --- be labeled as?

I think if a bm made offenisve comments about black women he would be anti black woman misogynist or engaging in anti black misogyny.

Would these men be "Black masculinist" or "Black masculist?" Meaning: An advocate of the rights or needs of Black men/boys.
If so, why would they have to be against and negative about "everyday BW" while advocating for BM. Especially, when -- as you and Dr. Curry stated -- most BW do not uphold anti-BM feelings or behaviors.

Black men who say offensive things about black men would not be masculimist. I don't know if he ever gave a particular label of black men who are critical of black women and/or black feminist.

As for the minority of black men that you speak of who "are against everyday black women" who advocate for black men. Maybe those black males have misdirected resentment against a white supramicist power structure that has produced unequal progress between bm and bw. That's my best guess.

I'm not sure in the case of Clarke who said the offensive comment why exactly he said what he said as it is probally self hatred. Or possiby resentfulness at lack of succes with dark skin women? I don't know.

For instance, what would the late Stephon Clark be labeled as?

I'm not sure what Dr. Curry would call Mr. Clark.
I myself would call his comments anti dark skin black woman. I'm not sure if I would label him some type of
men's rights advocate because those comments .






Also he criticizes the orgins of feminism in the US as having anti blackness and anti black maleness as component of their history/ideology going as far back as Susan B. Anthony and even Sojourner Truth.

From what I understand he argues for the study of black maleness in academia. I have not seen him advocate for the men's rights movement or a specific black men's rights movement.

He has argued for the recontextualizing of how we view black males in society and academia and for the distinct study of black males in academia.

Would "intersectionality" be included when discussing and labeling him and how he felt about BW?

I'm not sure how intersectionlity would apply to Mr. Clarks's comments on bw.

intersectionaly in in regards to black men have propsed that bm oppress,are violent against, and disenfranchise bw, which Dr. Curry argues is false as explained by emipircal data.

Would it be "intra-racial" discrimination? Would it be intra-racial gender racism/discrimination?
Meaning he was a BM - and he was Anti-BW - for whatever reason. One can say he has the right to feel that way --and keep it private to himself -- but was out and socially open about it. He didn't say anything about BM - but specifically BW.

From what I understand the.comments would be anti black woman mysogony and I'm not sure if their is intra-racial discrimination if Mr. Clark is not in a position to disenfranchise a black woman. But is he engaging in anti black woman propaganda by saying he doesnt want to date darkskin black women or finds them repulsive?

Do these tweets from him harm and disenfranchise black women however offensive? I'm not clear on that.

Do offensive tweets from a black man towards black women or the inverse totally describe them as anti bm or bw? Is this who they are?

 

[Indiglow Meta (R$G)]

"Toxic masculinity" was created by a men's movement to describe male behaviors that were SELF DESTRUCTIVE, like working long hours, binge drinking, hazing, etc.
Revision is expanding a definition to fit a set of behaviors that precisely mirror the "negro brute" caricatures of Jim Crow. Basically white feminist rhetoric applied to a community where a lot of sexism and privilege are in the woman's favor. These applications of recycled, racist dog whistles are used for social control and maintenance of a middlewoman position.

 

[xoxodede]

I feel like she just enjoys arguing with peolpe.

Yeah, I love it.

Cause aint ish I said "arguing."

 

[Apollo Creed]

We don't hold primary leadership in the community.
Black female social programs outnumber black male social programs.
Black women have more gender-race, race, and gender specific scholarships and foundations.
Black women are beating black men in every quality of life metric.
72% of black children, both male and female, are born to black mothers alone.
Semantics? Just semantics and wordplay.
You can't beat the data. We're in a matriarchal state controlled by an outside patriarchy, and gendered racism affects black men in a unique manner.

I can't even think of any Social programs targeted to black men honestly lol.

In ATL we got "Westside Works" which has put a lot of Black Men in Construction jobs but it has also put women in many jobs too so I can't even say that is for "black men".

The thing is society has it where if someone says "I want to put black men to work so they can provide for their families", people get offended and will say like "why cant women have jobs!?" or "what about non black men!?", yet nobody says anything when we talk about women focused career skill training programs. Society is pretty much like "eff young black boys" because "black women can be the mother and the father" in their minds. Ask a woman how she would feel if there was program that could guarantee 100k a year, but the stipulation is only one person in the household could do the job (either her or her man). A good bit would say they would want the job.

 

[xoxodede]

@xoxodede Uh I have listened to maybe 3 videos/podcast of him and check out his twitter post and I have not read his book yet.

In the talks I don't recall him discussing particular anti bw comments. Possibly because the focus of the convo was around black male studies?

Here is a tweet from Dr. Curry. about Stephon Clarke comments about dark skin women and the controversy connected to it.

Black Thought Thinking (@DrTJC) on Twitter

"This is similar to what happened to Eric Garner as well. If Mr.Clarke does not like dark skinned Black women how is that relevant to his death or who he is? So our biases mean what exactly? Tweets or offensive thoughts are not disenfranchisement."


In the interviews I have seen I don't him recall discussing the things you mention. Again I think it may be because of the focus on black male as the subject matter and the question was not brought up.


I think if a bm made offenisve comments about black women he would be anti black woman misogynist or engaging in anti black misogyny.




Black men who say offensive things about black men would not be masculimist. I don't know if he ever gave a particular label of black men who are critical of black women and/or black feminist.

As for the minority of black men that you speak of who "are against everyday black women" who advocate for black men. Maybe those black males have misdirected resentment against a white supramicist power structure that has produced unequal progress between bm and bw. That's my best guess.

I'm not sure in the case of Clarke who said the offensive comment why exactly he said what he said as it is probally self hatred. Or possiby resentfulness at lack of succes with dark skin women? I don't know.

I'm not sure what Dr. Curry would call Mr. Clark.
I myself would call his comments anti dark skin black woman. I'm not sure if I would label him some type of
men's rights advocate because those comments .






Also he criticizes the orgins of feminism in the US as having anti blackness and anti black maleness as component of their history/ideology going as far back as Susan B. Anthony and even Sojourner Truth.

From what I understand he argues for the study of black maleness in academia. I have not seen him advocate for the men's rights movement or a specific black men's rights movement.

He has argued for the recontextualizing of how we view black males in society and academia and for the distinct study of black males in academia.



I'm not sure how intersectionlity would apply to Mr. Clarks's comments on bw.

intersectionaly in in regards to black men have propsed that bm oppress,are violent against, and disenfranchise bw, which Dr. Curry argues is false as explained by emipircal data.


From what I understand the.comments would be anti black woman mysogony and I'm not sure if their is intra-racial discrimination if Mr. Clark is not in a position to disenfranchise a black woman. But is he engaging in anti black woman propaganda by saying he doesnt want to date darkskin black women or finds them repulsive?

Do these tweets from him harm and disenfranchise black women however offensive? I'm not clear on that.

Do offensive tweets from a black man towards black women or the inverse totally describe them as anti bm or bw? Is this who they are?

Great response!

Some of these terms are somewhat new to me. But, I have seen them argued back and forth in these types of discussions. I still don't know how to label and categorize BM or BW who are like the late Mr. Clark. Due to them not being fully "anti" - cause they have members of the same sex that they do love and care about. It's just they don't want to date or marry -- and do not speak well of those who are not those selected few in their lives.


------

On Dr. Curry's Tweet:

I agree with it - but at the same time - I feel like him dismissing aka not addressing it -- in regards to the internal relationship, structure and long-standing issues in our community/culture is not progressive or validating to all. And I feel like personally - silencing to those dark skin BW, BM and children. He can say what he said - while at the same time calling it out - understanding and accepting how it can cause some BW and BM to feel or withdraw support.

To me - as he states the point of Man-Not is to look at the intellectual, historical, sociological, and psychological evidence
that the analysis of patriarchy offered by mainstream feminism (including black feminism) does not yet fully understand the role that homoeroticism, sexual violence, and vulnerability play in the deaths and lives of black males. He posits that we should conceptualize the Black male as a victim, oppressed by his sex.

Yet wants to ignore how that same analysis of patriarchy offered by mainstream feminism and white supremacist patriarchal system(s), culture and masculinity definitions placed on BM - was expressed on BW. He wants to look at one side -- cool - but you have to put it together to see how it was expressed on your other half.

------

I have to say that online it doesn't appear as a "minority" of BM. So, anti black woman misogynist or engaging in anti black misogyny - what if it's more than comments -- it's his belief -- so they would be anti black woman misogynist?

And if the late Mr. Clark was anti dark skin black woman that would play into because "intracategorical intersectionality" -- is about skin color, hair texture, etc.

intersectionaly in in regards to black men have proposed that bm oppress,are violent against, and disenfranchise bw, which Dr. Curry argues is false as explained by empirical data.

How can he state that when he argues at the same time that it has happened to BM by BW?

Not, trying to be disrespectful - but a lot of this seems like he is trying to position BM as feminine and child-like -- in the way of being more of a helpless victim - less strong, with no accountability, no choice/control of personal actions/behaviors and lesser than their women. At the same time not giving that same outlook on BW.

I fully support Black male studies - and the issues placed on and experienced by BM/boys - but I don't see why it has to be while challenging the accounts and stories of BW/girls. Especially, "empirical data" - which is white data.

And for me - I guess cause I don't have those representatives of BM in my life - it's hard to see why BM - who I see in another - positive light would want to be deemed differently. BM since day one here - have not seen themselves as such - and fought through to persist and see themselves as a man and practiced manhood.

 

[xoxodede]

We don't hold primary leadership in the community.
Black female social programs outnumber black male social programs.
Black women have more gender-race, race, and gender specific scholarships and foundations.
Black women are beating black men in every quality of life metric.
72% of black children, both male and female, are born to black mothers alone.
Semantics? Just semantics and wordplay.
You can't beat the data. We're in a matriarchal state controlled by an outside patriarchy, and gendered racism affects black men in a unique manner.

I don't believe we are in a Matriarchal state - but if you do - that's you and I respect your opinion.

On leadership in our communities: what type of leadership? Black Community as a a whole? Cause as long as their is a male/female dynamic - Black men will continue to be the primary leader" in our communities.

This can't just be placed on BW: 72% of black children, both male and female, are born to black mothers alone
Black men are choosing to have unprotected sex with these women - or even their dedicated wives and girlfriends -- and choosing to bow out.

On Social Programs:

• There are virtually no programs for African American women and girls that are comparable to the Black male programs.

• Black female programs tended to be funded by Black women’s organizations, as opposed to the governmental and philanthropic support for the Black male programs.

• Most programs for Black females are self-help or networking organizations. Examples include The National Council of Negro Women, The Professional Women of Color Network, Black Career Women, and the National Organization for African American Women.

On Scholarships: Stats and source for this?

Beating Black men: this is a myth. Education - yes.

Black men make more than BW: The Gender Wage Gap: 2016; Earnings Differences by Gender, Race, and Ethnicity | Institute for Women's Policy Research

Please list quality of life metrics categories.

 

[Remo]

Dr Curry and this thread have never been anti black woman. Where is this even coming from?

 

[Barnett114]

I feel like she just enjoys arguing with peolpe.

Exactly

 

[AlainLocke]

I honestly don't believe @xoxodede is arguing just to argue, I honestly think she's trying to understand. She ain't that type of person.

The argument or discussion for me and many other Black men isn't about who is suffering more...

The argument and discussion is about the central idea around Black feminism...(not womanism cause that's a different thing...and it's problematic at times but it's ten times better than Black feminism, although they overlap in ways...but the premise is way better...)

That Black men have an negative and oppressive patriarchy that harms Black women and Black men have some sort of privilege that Black women don't.

And this idea that permeates from the academy and the Black feminists start playing language games by saying Black men have toxic masculinity and saying stupid shyt like the Number 1 cause of death for Black women is Black men...which isn't true btw.

It's not fukk you to all Black women, it's fukk you to the Black feminists that say that type of shyt and promote this brutish, uncivilized image of Black men.

We ain't even saying Black feminists or Black women gotta help us and advocate for us...we just saying stop the slander and bullshyt and let the Black men in the academy that wanna make an argument and create a cause for us do their job.

I really think that Black feminists have to say these inflammatory things about Black men because that's what White academies wanna hear. That's how Black feminists gonna start out, getting their name and fame.

They treat us like zoo animals and they want some zoo stories....

These are like 1800s mandingo stories but instead of White women being raped and brutalized, it's Black women.

It's an all around pathologization of the Black American community...but it makes Black men not worth saving.

 

[xoxodede]

Exactly

This is cute. You are cool with me but...

You like coming in threads with one-liners calling the women on this board and women in general “bytches.”

Rarely adding anything to discussions but your biased and trauma based opinion. Which often leds to many productive dialogues being closed aka bushed.

Yet, by me joining in on a discussion — and asking questions and adding to the discussion in a respectful manner — you co-sign and equate that to —“liking to argue.”

 

[xoxodede]

I honestly don't believe @xoxodede is arguing just to argue, I honestly think she's trying to understand. She ain't that type of person.

The argument or discussion for me and many other Black men isn't about who is suffering more...

The argument and discussion is about the central idea around Black feminism...(not womanism cause that's a different thing...and it's problematic at times but it's ten times better than Black feminism, although they overlap in ways...but the premise is way better...)

That Black men have an negative and oppressive patriarchy that harms Black women and Black men have some sort of privilege that Black women don't.

And this idea that permeates from the academy and the Black feminists start playing language games by saying Black men have toxic masculinity and saying stupid shyt like the Number 1 cause of death for Black women is Black men...which isn't true btw.

It's not fukk you to all Black women, it's fukk you to the Black feminists that say that type of shyt and promote this brutish, uncivilized image of Black men.

We ain't even saying Black feminists or Black women gotta help us and advocate for us...we just saying stop the slander and bullshyt and let the Black men in the academy that wanna make an argument and create a cause for us do their job.

I really think that Black feminists have to say these inflammatory things about Black men because that's what White academies wanna hear. That's how Black feminists gonna start out, getting their name and fame.

They treat us like zoo animals and they want some zoo stories....

These are like 1800s mandingo stories but instead of White women being raped and brutalized, it's Black women.

It's an all around pathologization of the Black American community...but it makes Black men not worth saving.

Thank you so much.

Genuinely, that is what I am trying to do -- understand.

 

[Poitier]

@Barnett114 @Diasporan Royalty ban the women from this thread or they will derail this shyt into oblivion like agents

 

[Asicz]

I have to say that online it doesn't appear as a "minority" of BM. So, anti black woman misogynist or engaging in anti black misogyny - what if it's more than comments -- it's his belief -- so they would be anti black woman misogynist?

This the type of statement is part of the issue Dr. Curry argues against.
You said it seems like a majority of black men feel the same way and speak the same way that Mr Clark spoke about dark skin black women without any empircal data to show for it.
I also see some people do the same to bw on twitter.
If one bw says black men" are trash" do the majority of bw think this way? How would I truly know this? A couple tweets?

These presumptions get made about
bm without evidence.

When Dr. Curry has referenced p emprical data you refer to it as "white man's data" but the data he he refers to is legit .



I don't think he can succeed as a tenured university professor in academia, especially as a black man at a conservative predominately white instiution using false data.

agree with it - but at the same time - I feel like him dismissing aka not addressing it -- in regards to the internal relationship, structure and long-standing issues in our community/culture is not progressive or validating to all. And I feel like personally - silencing to those dark skin BW, BM and children. He can say what he said - while at the same time calling it out - understanding and accepting how it can cause some BW and BM to feel or withdraw support.

He did adress it and called it the comments offensive. Also stated that all black males lives are valued even i one tweeted an offensive comment towards black women. You seem to disagree .

Great response!

Some of these terms are somewhat new to me. But, I have seen them argued back and forth in these types of discussions. I still don't know how to label and categorize BM or BW who are like the late Mr. Clark. Due to them not being fully "anti" - cause they have members of the same sex that they do love and care about. It's just they don't want to date or marry -- and do not speak well of those who are not those selected few in their lives.

You seem to be familiar with the terms you gotta stop the disingenuous starements its lowkey insulting.

------

On Dr. Curry's Tweet:

I agree with it - but at the same time - I feel like him dismissing aka not addressing it -- in regards to the internal relationship, structure and long-standing issues in our community/culture is not progressive or validating to all. And I feel like personally - silencing to those dark skin BW, BM and children. He can say what he said - while at the same time calling it out - understanding and accepting how it can cause some BW and BM to feel or withdraw support.

To me - as he states the point of Man-Not is to look at the intellectual, historical, sociological, and psychological evidence
that the analysis of patriarchy offered by mainstream feminism (including black feminism) does not yet fully understand the role that homoeroticism, sexual violence, and vulnerability play in the deaths and lives of black males. He posits that we should conceptualize the Black male as a victim, oppressed by his sex.

Yet wants to ignore how that same analysis of patriarchy offered by mainstream feminism and white supremacist patriarchal system(s), culture and masculinity definitions placed on BM - was expressed on BW. He wants to look at one side -- cool - but you have to put it together to see how it was expressed on your other half.

------

I have to say that online it doesn't appear as a "minority" of BM. So, anti black woman misogynist or engaging in anti black misogyny - what if it's more than comments -- it's his belief -- so they would be anti black woman misogynist?

And if the late Mr. Clark was anti dark skin black woman that would play into because "intracategorical intersectionality" -- is about skin color, hair texture, etc.

intersectionaly in in regards to black men have proposed that bm oppress,are violent against, and disenfranchise bw, which Dr. Curry argues is false as explained by empirical data.

How can he state that when he argues at the same time that it has happened to BM by BW?

Not, trying to be disrespectful - but a lot of this seems like he is trying to position BM as feminine and child-like -- in the way of being more of a helpless victim - less strong, with no accountability, no choice/control of personal actions/behaviors and lesser than their women. At the same time not giving that same outlook on BW.

I fully support Black male studies - and the issues placed on and experienced by BM/boys - but I don't see why it has to be while challenging the accounts and stories of BW/girls. Especially, "empirical data" - which is white data.

And for me - I guess cause I don't have those representatives of BM in my life - it's hard to see why BM - who I see in another - positive light would want to be deemed differently. BM since day one here - have not seen themselves as such - and fought through to persist and see themselves as a man and practiced manhood.

representatives of BM in my life - it's hard to see why BM - who I see in another - positive light would want to be deemed differently. BM since day one here - have not seen themselves as such - and fought through to persist and see themselves as a man and practiced manhood

Yes he coined the term black male vulneabilty because black males from childhood and on are targeted with racial profiling in and out of azchool with harsher consequences, not includeed economically educationaly and in the job market. The stigma of being seen as criminal follows even educated black men.
White felon and income whites statistically fair better than black men

Check tonetalks x Dr. Curry

Spoiler: Dr.Curry

Dr Curry has appeared on many shows and I'm not sure if you genuinely dont understand.

But I do think you have not taken the time to use Google and search his talks and interviews, or you just don't believe him. Maybe all the above.

And lowkey imo you have come off slighty disingenuous with some of your questions.

Or maybe you just don't get it and believe the same things about black men that many white people , some feminist and black feminist have believed and expressed about black men.

Believing those things imo is stake holding in patriarchal white supremacy and you are lowkey being an enemy of black men.

I mean the researchers who are non black can even see how black males are vulnerable to racism and you cant?!

There is a slew of data that shows black mens predicaments is not of their own doing or their failure to persist as you stated.

Dr. Curry does not infantilize or feminize black males when he discusses the realities of black male life.


The men in your family may have had sucess but those black men are not the entire gender of black men.

Also some black men from your father's generation where in the workforce around a time of fresher civl rights gains and policies like affirmative action, diversity initiatives equal employmennt opportinuity, a different economy that didn't see the peak of globilization and immigrant labor etc.Today it's a little different.

Whether black men looked upon them selves as masculine in the white male sense of the word may be irrelevant to black mens overall actual state in terms of education, labor participation, income, health etc.

 

[xoxodede]

This the type of statement is part of the issue Dr. Curry argues against.
You said it seems like a majority of black men feel the same way and speak the same way that Mr Clark spoke about dark skin black women without any empircal data to show for it.
I also see some people do the same to bw on twitter.
If one bw says black men" are trash" do the majority of bw think this way? How would I truly know this? A couple tweets?

These presumptions get made about
bm without evidence.

When Dr. Curry has referenced p emprical data you refer to it as "white man's data" but the data he he refers to is legit .



I don't think he can succeed as a tenured university professor in academia, especially as a black man at a conservative predominately white instiution using false data.




He did adress it and called it the comments offensive. Also stated that all black males lives are valued even i one tweeted an offensive comment towards black women. You seem to disagree .



Yes he coined the term black male vulneabilty because black males from childhood and on are targeted with racial profiling in and out of azchool with harsher consequences, not includeed economically educationaly and in the job market. The stigma of being seen as criminal follows even educated black men.
White felon and income whites statistically fair better than black men

Check tonetalks x Dr. Curry

Spoiler: Dr.Curry

Dr Curry has appeared on many shows and I'm not sure if you genuinely dont understand.

But I do think you have not taken the time to use Google and search his talks and interviews, or you just don't believe him. Maybe all the above.

And lowkey imo you have come off slighty disingenuous with some of your questions.

Or maybe you just don't get it and believe the same things about black men that many white people , some feminist and black feminist have believed and expressed about black men.

Believing those things imo is stake holding in patriarchal white supremacy and you are lowkey being an enemy of black men.

I mean the researchers who are non black can even see how black males are vulnerable to racism and you cant?!

There is a slew of data that shows black mens predicaments is not of their own doing or their failure to persist as you stated.

Dr. Curry does not infantilize or feminize black males when he discusses the realities of black male life.


The men in your family may have had sucess but those black men are not the entire gender of black men.

Also some black men from your father's generation where in the workforce around a time of fresher civl rights gains and policies like affirmative action, diversity initiatives equal employmennt opportinuity, a different economy that didn't see the peak of globilization and immigrant labor etc.Today it's a little different.

Whether black men looked upon them selves as masculine in the white male sense of the word may be irrelevant to black mens overall actual state in terms of education, labor participation, income, health etc.

Thanks for responding. I am going to respond to your comment - and then I will bow out the conversation/thread like @Poitier has requested.

This the type of statement is part of the issue Dr. Curry argues against. You said it seems like a majority of black men feel the same way and speak the same way that Mr Clark spoke about dark skin black women without any empirical data to show for it. I also see some people do the same to bw on twitter. If one bw says black men" are trash" do the majority of bw think this way? How would I truly know this? A couple tweets? These presumptions get made about bm without evidence.

I have suggested that it appears/seems via online that it's not a minority - I didn't state or imply "majority" of BM online - but there is more than a "minority." And not specifically the way Mr. Clark felt - being he was anti-dark skin BW - but some BM engage in as you labeled "anti black woman misogynist or engaging in anti black misogyny."

And you are correct, some black women - and not a minority either - also practice/engage in Anti-BM feminism.

When Dr. Curry has referenced empirical data you refer to it as "white man's data" but the data he he refers to is legit. I don't think he can succeed as a tenured university professor in academia, especially as a black man at a conservative predominately white institution using false data.

I called it "white man's data" - to showcase how his empirical data used is the same data from the system and white academia he is challenging. Data collected used to shape and theorize not only BM - but BW.

He did address it and called it the comments offensive. Also stated that all black males lives are valued even i one tweeted an offensive comment towards black women. You seem to disagree .

Addressing it - is more than calling it "offensive" -- one has to say what's offensive about it - and how it affects the unit.

And lowkey imo you have come off slighty disingenuous with some of your questions. Or maybe you just don't get it and believe the same things about black men that many white people , some feminist and black feminist have believed and expressed about black men Believing those things imo is stake holding in patriarchal white supremacy and you are lowkey being an enemy of black men.

Disingenuous and/or I believe the same things about black men? That is your opinion. You are welcome to it. As nothing, I have ever posted showcases that. If asking questions, listening to -- and sometimes challenging BM is "low-key being an enemy and stake holding WS" --- then we have nothing to gain -- nor elevate to.

I mean the researchers who are non black can even see how black males are vulnerable to racism and you cant?! There is a slew of data that shows black mens predicaments is not of their own doing or their failure to persist as you stated. Dr. Curry does not infantilize or feminize black males when he discusses the realities of black male life.

So, can you point me to where I stated BM are not vulnerable to racism or other predicaments placed on them -- and my denial of such?

Dr. Curry does not infantilize or feminize black males when he discusses the realities of black male life.

From his book wiki: He posts that we should conceptualize the Black male as a victim, oppressed by his sex.

And I stated: Not, trying to be disrespectful - but a lot of this seems like he is trying to position BM as feminine and child-like -- in the way of being more of a helpless victim - less strong, with no accountability, no choice/control of personal actions/behaviors and lesser than their women. At the same time not giving that same outlook on BW.

The men in your family may have had success but those black men are not the entire gender of black men. Also some black men from your father's generation where in the workforce around a time of fresher civl rights gains and policies like affirmative action, diversity initiatives equal employment opportunity, a different economy that didn't see the peak of globalization and immigrant labor etc. Today it's a little different. Whether black men looked upon them selves as masculine in the white male sense of the word may be irrelevant to black mens overall actual state in terms of education, labor participation, income, health etc.

I understand that and I totally agree.