Dr Marcus Garvey Jr. The Arab Slave Trade

[GetInTheTruck]

That's fine, but they were wrong.

Arabs are much closer related genetically to Europeans than to Africans. It isn't even close.

There are African tribes which are more genetically different than other African tribes than the differences between Europeans and Arabs.

The point is that non-African conquerors and imperialists went into Africa and forced their way of life onto them. Forced conversions don't always happen under the threat of the sword, sometimes it's under the threat of social pressures.

The truth is that Islam and the Caliphates were the British Empires and American Empires of their day.

Talk about the chickens coming home to roost.

What does this even mean? so when white people in america were "forced by societal pressure" to start treating black people like human beings that was a bad thing? it's like you guys are desperate to hold on to this fantasy that Islam was forcefully spread at any cost. It's just not true, there is no basis for it. At all.

 

[Blackking]

..... truth and real shyt.

man, I'm slowly starting to figure out that they don't really care about the truth. I mean, I know this is the internet, but Gottdamn.


peace.

 

[theworldismine13]

Without focusing on your bias....

Imagine if every black person in America was a Muslim. Every single one, living the lifestyle.

United as brothers, unlike the way we are now. Imagine if we ate the way Muslims eat.. think about our health. Imagine if our morals had an Islamic standard, not the standards of hadiths or arab scholars, but Islamic and righteous... Do you think Urban culture would promote the things it promotes?

Imagine if black men spoke to women and men the way that black Muslims speak to each other?

Muslims focus on Business HARD CORE. They focus on education, especially technology.. hard Core. Family and community is #1 focus.. even caring about those who are lost and ignorant in the community (which is y I defend rap and all that shyt)


Without being bias... Don't you feel we would be better off united under one system of community structure and economic empowerment?

No I don't think black people should unite under Islam becuase Islam is not based on individual rights

And when it comes to business I follow the America capitalist model which focuses on education and technology

 

[Broke Wave]

Source?





Seems comparable to me.

Arab slave trade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Atlantic slave trade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Middle Passage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also the entire Arab slave trade took place over 1350 years... where as the Atlantic Slave Trade took place over less than 300 years.

Being from Brazil, the worlds largest slave colony, you should know the history of the slave trade

What does this even mean? so when white people in america were "forced by societal pressure" to start treating black people like human beings that was a bad thing? it's like you guys are desperate to hold on to this fantasy that Islam was forcefully spread at any cost. It's just not true, there is no basis for it. At all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spread_of_Islam_in_Indonesia

Press Control + F for Word Search

Then find the word "Forced"

This is the worlds largest Muslim Population.

Facts

 

[Blackking]

No I don't think black people should unite under Islam becuase Islam is not based on individual rights

And when it comes to business I follow the America capitalist model which focuses on education and technology

So you don't know any black Muslims??

lol, I'm done.

Peace.

 

[Type Username Here]

For the most part black men accepted Islam, for similar reasons some accept it today. It's not a big deal.

Muhammad and those guys did have wars and there was imperialism, but that wasn't the sole reason why much of Africa accepted Islam. Every powerful African, Middle Eastern.. and Persian empire back then did the imperialism thing.. it's natural to expand.

I don't think black people feel that Arabs are black. African's are black. On one thread you all are saying "their is no such thing as race" and " black people shouldn't be militant in their causes" ... then on another thread the conversation essentially amounts to " You nikkas should hate and even kill A Rats because they enslaved the parts of Africa that you're ancestor are more than likely not even from" .

Black Muslims aren't feeling any of that. We know history. We know and love everyone in our Diaspora first. The Europeans looked at (and some still look at) all brown and black people as inferior. We aren't even united as black people. People of the Caribbean don't want to be associated with black Americans, and Africans are hostile from one village to the next.. So we aren't on here saying that Arabs are our people. We are just curious- as to y there is a push by Non pro black people to encourage blacks, especially black Muslims to be upset about past history. The transatlantic slave trade doesn't even upset me. It's gross and despicable but Anger never solved anything. I don't hate anyone.. I just recognize people and situations for what they are. If I was still in Nubia.. There would be both Africans and Arabs that would want to kill me for various reasons... what good does it do me to be upset or harp on that?? I just need to understand the situation and try to live at peace.

Peace.

Blackking, I don't really give a shyt about anything you said here. I know for a fact that imperialism, colonialism, wars, etc are part of human history. Dominant groups have always done this to inferior groups.

My problem is when you, and I'm talking specifically about you, focus on one evil (European-based) and ignore the one that came from the people of your prophet.

Islam and the Caliphates were the British Empire and America of their day. They didn't just spread their philosophical ideology, they also spread their culture, language, etc..

To deny this is being absolutely biased.

 

[theworldismine13]

So you don't know any black Muslims??

lol, I'm done.

Peace.

I don't know what that is suppose to mean, I know people who are black and Muslim, what is the significance of that?

 

[Type Username Here]

Middle Passage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also the entire Arab slave trade took place over 1350 years... where as the Atlantic Slave Trade took place over less than 300 years.

Being from Brazil, the worlds largest slave colony, you should know the history of the slave trade

I'm sorry, I failed to see how you proved your original point. The numbers were nearly the same. Can you provide a legitimate source to your argument in how they weren't comparable?

 

[GetInTheTruck]

I believe in freedom of religion

And no I don't think Islam or Christianity is an appropriate vehicle for black unity for the aforementioned reasons, that is the whole point I'm making, Islam is not an appropriate religion for black people

So then what is? What way of life should black people be universally following?

 

[Type Username Here]

Spread of Islam in Indonesia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

Press Control + F for Word Search

Then find the word "Forced"

This is the worlds largest Muslim Population.
[/IMG]

No one is saying that people don't convert on their own or haven't. We are speaking historically about the Caliphs and Caliphates.

That was imperialism and colonialism in every sense of the word.

 

[Broke Wave]

I'm sorry, I failed to see how you proved your original point. The numbers were nearly the same. Can you provide a legitimate source to your argument in how they weren't comparable?

*clears throat*

one took place over Thirteen Hundred and Fifty years

and the other took place mostly over the course of 150 years if you want to get very specific.

If we take the most Liberal estimate of 18 million Africans enslaved by Arabs, that works out to 13350 a year. African societies could have, would have, and did function properly and some benefited from the enslavement of other Africans. It was still horrible, but you cannot compare that to the industrial pace in which African slavery was being perpetuated during the Trans-Atlantic slave trade, it is simple historically incomparable.

You're comparing raiders and bandits enslaving small groups of people for money sporadically to the worlds first corporations given the protection and ships of their home governments going into nations and turning slavery into a full fledged industry. It's like comparing heart disease deaths in America over a 100 year period to the Rwandan Genocide. It just doesn't make any sense if you look at the scale and especially the scope.

Why do I have to take the unpopular position of defending the Arab Slave Trade as if I agree with it or excuse it? It was fukking terrible. But the narrative of Islam and "Caliphates" being the old British Empire is beyond laughable. Like such a statement is totally devoid of any historical context. I can't even begin to take apart the narrative you guys are creating, because it doesn't exist, dude.

 

[Type Username Here]

What does this even mean? so when white people in america were "forced by societal pressure" to start treating black people like human beings that was a bad thing? it's like you guys are desperate to hold on to this fantasy that Islam was forcefully spread at any cost. It's just not true, there is no basis for it. At all.

It was forcefully spread in the original caliphates. That's not the same as saying everyone converted by force.

How else would explain India, one of the oldest cultures and ethnicities on the planet, being ruled by Persians and Arabs for hundreds of years? That's not imperialism and colonialism? Even though Hindus were the overwhelming majority?

Come on man.

 

[Type Username Here]

*clears throat*

one took place over Thirteen Hundred and Fifty years

and the other took place mostly over the course of 150 years if you want to get very specific.

If we take the most Liberal estimate of 18 million Africans enslaved by Arabs, that works out to 13350 a year. African societies could have, would have, and did function properly and some benefited from the enslavement of other Africans. It was still horrible, but you cannot compare that to the industrial pace in which African slavery was being perpetuated during the Trans-Atlantic slave trade, it is simple historically incomparable.

You're comparing raiders and bandits enslaving small groups of people for money sporadically to the worlds first corporations given the protection and ships of their home governments going into nations and turning slavery into a full fledged industry. It's like comparing heart disease deaths in America over a 100 year period to the Rwandan Genocide. It just doesn't make any sense if you look at the scale and especially the scope.

So if I kill one person everyday for 10 years, that is better than me killing 1000 in a single day?

Is the crime not what is wrong? You're talking about this as if it's simple data on a X Y graph.

 

[theworldismine13]

So then what is? What way of life should black people be universally following?

Who said that black people need to be universely following anything, the only universal "religion" that I would suggest is the religion of individual freedom, economic freedom and education

 

[GetInTheTruck]

Blackking, I don't really give a shyt about anything you said here. I know for a fact that imperialism, colonialism, wars, etc are part of human history. Dominant groups have always done this to inferior groups.

My problem is when you, and I'm talking specifically about you, focus on one evil (European-based) and ignore the one that came from the people of your prophet.

Islam and the Caliphates were the British Empire and America of their day. They didn't just spread their philosophical ideology, they also spread their culture, language, etc..

To deny this is being absolutely biased.

What are you talking about breh? For the most part peoples conquered lands continued to work and live as they did before...with the advantage of paying less taxes with more freedoms. Muslims "conquered" Iraq, but guess what, Persian rule over there was foreign rule anyway. In Persia, people would rather be ruled by Islam than an oppressive royal class. Once again, Islam proved itself to be a superior and more desirable way of life.

In Syria, Egypt, Palestine, Christians were being oppressed by officials in Constantinople who viewed their monophysite "version" of Christianity to be a heresy. Islamic rule put an end to that, and no one was forced to become Muslim.

There is no comparison between the spread of Islam and European colonialism, sorry.