Does the large Caribbean presence in NYC's Hip Hop scene explain the disconnect with other regions?

IllmaticDelta

IllmaticDelta

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Cave Savage said:
And if the "Kool-Herc created hip-hop thing" isn't actually true, then that would be some shyt because the city renamed a chunk of Sedgwick Avenue to "Hip-Hop Boulevard".
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.........reasons like this is why the majority of hiphop history from the 1970s got distorted from the 80s to present because people wanted to keep passing off these mythical beginnings instead of telling the full truth. Now though, there are numerous interviews from OG hiphopers from the 1st generation where they let out more of the truth than what was told before. The only reason Herc wasn't forgotten was because Baam gave him his props because by the time the late 70s came along, Herc was basically finished. Baam and Flash aren't even from the first generation of hiphop even though Baam had more connections to it via Dj Kool D/Disco King Mario and the Black Spades. Flash was more of an outsider.
 
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IllmaticDelta

IllmaticDelta

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truth2you said:
I can say that the netflix documentary, and QdIII documentaries, does help change this narrative.

The netflix documenatry, has people all over the world learning about "here comes the judge" which can stop the false narrative because it came out in 1968, and there is no caribbean records like that in that era. Pigmeat Markham was not some unknown guy, black people all over the country knew him. My mother gave me the 45 in 1992, and that was what showed me rap is not new. The beat, and rhymes, were straight rap music.

I had that shyt on 45 ,and lost it!:mjcry:

Thank god for the internet!:blessed:
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also the interviews from JayQuan, Mark Skillz and Troy L. Smith
 
IllmaticDelta

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Cave Savage said:
And how do you guys feel about the whole "Latinos created hip-hop" thing? I understand there were a lot of Ricans in The Bronx (and still are), but looking at almost all of the early hip-hop acts, it looks like it was all black people. There may have been Puerto Rican bboys and graffiti artists, but hip hop music itself seems like it was very much a black thing and not a "black and Latino" thing. And even then it would just be Puerto Ricans. Mexicans and Salvadorans definitely have no claim to being the creators of hip hop.
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more bs....they contributed to bboying later more near 1980's but before that, they had no impact
 
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IllmaticDelta said:
.........reasons like this is why the majority of hiphop history from the 1970s got distorted from the 80s to present because people wanted to keep passing off these mythical beginnings instead of telling the full truth. Now though, there are numerous interviews from OG hiphopers from the 1st generation where they let oit more of the truth tham what was told before. The only reason Herc wasn't forgotten was because Baam gave him his props because by the time the late 70s came along, Herc was basically finished. Baam and Flash aren't even from the first generation of hiphop even though Baam had more connections to it via Dj Kool D/Disco King Mario and the Black Spades. Flash was more of an outsider.
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flash even admitted it! I'm still glad he gave his contribution to djing, especially since I've been djing in some form since I was around 10/11 years old


Did you see Flash & Herc's beef last year? Herc straight disrespected Flash, but Flash does have a point, he brought the quickness to hip hop dj's, and djing in general.

 
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kingofnyc said:
:what:

first off please don’t compare me to the retired SKJ that dude is a complete hater

I find it quite interesting you say you was part of hip-hop and witnessed it in the streets but you haven't stated your age ,where was you born, we was raised

how the hell is herc , bam and flash second generations from the early 80s and you have aducity to say that I don’t know what I’m talking about come on my nikka




listen im not gonna shyt on dj dee, mario & others but my personal opinion is them nikkaz were simply disc jockeys that played the music of that time / era

and I have to ask you
what is your personal problem with Caribbean people because dem nikkas that you named you put black Americans in parentheses
da hell differences dose that make - as long as the culture was created by a black man i gives 2 shyts

and I guess or I assume you missed the point where I stated that hip-hop was basically created by the environment that these people lived in
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1-40, Brooklyn but went all over the city, and did this at a young age, not just my teenage years. Had older family who were dj's, so hip hop was all around me, as well as music in general. I can even tell you my first time learning how to scratch was when I was around 6/7 years old on my cousins turntables. I remember how bad NYC was, weed smoke everywhere, me fighting all the time, police not fukking with people like they did in the 90's. The train having graffitti everywhere, and the lights going out sometimes. People getting robbed on the trains. Angel dust was still a thing. I remember we wore windbreakers, british walkers. I even remember the Kangaroo sneakers! We were into Karate big time! I can even tell you when Blunts started being smoked, because it started in my neighborhood in Brooklyn. This was more towards the mid 80's, but I remember Big daddy kane was the first that I heard talk about it when he said "you know that I smoke you up like a blunt" in the song "raw"!

2-They are second generation, because hip hop is a culture, not just music, and the people who helped create it were older then them. A major part of hip hop culture coming about were the gangs of the time, specifically the black spades. The slang, how sound systems were able to be set up outside, and styles of dressing all had a connection to the gangs! When you look at the times people like Kool Dj dee, he had his sound system before herc, and was the first to bring his set outside, not bam, flash, or herc. Herc even admitted his first sound system was some home type shyt, not a big speaker set up.

3- How are you gonna say kool dj dee, & mario, were just dj's who played music, when Herc, and flash did the same! At least flash brought skills not seen before to the table, but herc didn't even mix his records, he just played records!

4- Why is it I have a problem with Caribbeans just because I want the truth to be told? Why do you feel a need to stretch the truth just because the people are black? Shouldn't you want the truth regardless who is telling it or where they are from?
 
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IllmaticDelta

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truth2you said:
flash even admitted it! I'm still glad he gave his contribution to djing, especially since I've been djing in some form since I was around 10/11 years old
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flash along with people like theodore, dxt, tyrone the mixologist, dj kool dee etc..are the one who took the blueprint from disco dj'ing and made it more percussive and repetitive. Herc and Baam had no dj skills


grand wizard theo smashed flash lol




tyrone the mixoligist



and DJ Imperial JayCee who ran with herc since herc had people dj for himthat were better skilled

DJ Imperial JayCee

^click for video

What happen was Mel heard about me. Herc let him know that we would be rocking out side at 82 park. Herc called me up told me the same thing. By this time I had moved to Yonkers. So I jumped on the train and when I got there the park was packed, and this was like 3 o’clock in the afternoon. When I walked in the park they got real hyped. Now Herc didn’t announce to the crowd yet that Mel was on his way.



Hold up, was Mel auditioning you to take Flashes place?



No nothing like that. He heard that I was real nice so he wanted to see for him self. At the same token people were saying that I was better then Flash so he wanted to see.



Well not for nothing a lot of brothers are giving you props such as Tony Tone, Theodore and Pow Wow.



Man I will murder Flash, I will kill him in my sleep.



Have ya’ll ever battled, you and Flash?



flashonwheels.jpg
Yes. That’s why I said this is a puzzle and I will get to that part as well. So Mel came, and when they seen him they went crazy. That’s the first time I seen Mel. I heard him on cassettes but I never seen him in person. So Mel’s over on the side talking to Clark Kent and Herc, then Clark Kent comes over to me and says Mel is here so we are going to start this now, because the place is ridiculous, so we want to get off on a good note in case people want to start acting stupid. That day we had both East side and West side up in here at the same time. You know there was a time east side couldn’t go on west side and west side couldn’t go on eastside. So Clark Kent said we are going to start with him first and then Clark is going to pass off to me. Mel was quiet in the beginning and then he said this is Mele Mel over the mic and then the crowd went berserk. Clark then looked at me and said are you ready, and then he passed it to me. Before he passed it to me, he said you want Flash then this is your opportunity. Mel gets back on the mic when I get on and says I heard a lot about this kid, but I didn’t believe s--- stinks till I smell it. So Mel says one for the treble, two for the bass, come on Jay Cee lets rock, and I threw the s--- in and it was all f------ history from there.



Do you remember the record?



Yeah it was Good Times, it had just came out. That was my signature record; nobody could cut it like me.



That was Flash’s signature record as well.



Well Flash’s signature record truthfully was Bells(Mardis Gras by Bob James).



O.k. I thought it was Good Times because he played it so much.



He rocked it a lot but Bells was his joint.



How did Clark Kent gas this up with you and Mel?



He told Mel how to coach me into doing this crazy speed s---. Mel would be doing his rhymes then he would say alright give me a three second cut Jay. I would give him a three second cut. This is the amount of seconds in between a cut. Then he would say give me a two second cut. So when Mel said faster, faster. I went into a one second cut and that blew them n------ minds. I started going Good, Good, Good, Good, Good, Good, Good, Good.



Back and forth right?



melint.jpg
Back and forth! Mel saw that s---, he back up off the mic. The crowd was going crazy and the whole s---. He grabbed the mic back he said yo, yo you nice. He just kept saying you nice. He said my man Flash, I don’t know. I don’t know. He just kept saying that. He left it at that. Three weeks later they all came up to our place, Stafford Place and they all got on the mic with me while I was cutting. They weren’t down with us but they came through. From there they got down with Charlie Chase for a little while.



Do you know why they broke up for that moment?



No but I am sure Herc knew, because they had to tell him, and he later told me yo Furious is coming. Herc knew and said eventually they are going to get back together, and it didn’t last long. It might have been two months, and they were right back together. From that day on when Mele Mel came through my name started ringing bells. Guys like the Theodore’s and Bam’s started knowing that I existed.



So now you started becoming Herc’s first D.J. knocking out Clark Kent and Black Jack?
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The Imperial Jay Cee



Did you see Flash & Herc's beef last year? Herc straight disrespected Flash, but Flash does have a point, he brought the quickness to hip hop dj's, and djing in general.

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true story, baam and flash didn'tlike herc back in the day. Flash when he was with Pete Dj Jones battle Herc and took herc out with the quick mix lol.herc couldn't do any of that shyt

Before he became the Grandmaster Flash of legend, he was a student of Pete DJ Jones’. Friends described him as being intense, “When that guy caught the deejay bug real bad around 1973, we didn’t know what was happening”, said E-Z Mike, “He had a messenger job”, Mike continues, “He would get paid and by the next day – he would be broke. We’d be like, ‘Yo, where’s all of your money?’ He spent it all on records.”

“We’d try and get on Herc’s system”, Mike recalls, “But Herc wasn’t going for it. Flash would ask, “Could I get on?” and Herc would be like ‘Not”. You see back then”, Mike explains, “Nobody wanted Flash to touch their system. They’d be like, “Hell no, you be messing up needles and records and shyt.” Both Disco Bee and E-Z Mike agree that Herc used to publicly embarrass Flash on the mike by talking ‘really greasy’ about him.

After Herc played it was Pete’s turn again, this time he played his R&B and funk records – but the crowd wasn’t feeling it. So he pulled out a couple of ringers, in the form of his protégés: Lovebug Starski and Grandmaster Flash.

“Flash tore Herc’s ass up that night”, remembers E-Z Mike. “When it came crunch time to see what was what: Pete put Grandmaster Flash on”, remembers AJ. That was the first time I ever saw Flash play. The people were amazed. You see, Flash was a deejay, he was doing all that quick-mixing and spinning around and stuff – the Bronx lost its mind that night because we had never seen anything like that before.”

To the crowd of hundreds it looked like Pete Jones was winning. No one knew who Grandmaster Flash was that night. He was an unknown deejay playing on the set of one of the most popular jocks of that time. People yelled and screamed because it was the first time that they had seen a deejay with a magician’s flair for showmanship. Nobody played like that before. Kool Herc would haphazardly drop the needle on the record – sometimes the break was there, often times it wasn’t. Pete Jones could mix his ass off – but he wasn’t entertaining to watch. Both men had huge sound systems, but they weren’t charismatic spinners. Flash was.

On this night, the crowd at the Executive Playhouse was entranced with Flash’s spinning techniques, which were really revolutionary at this time. He had perfected a new technique called the ‘backspin’.

E-Z Mike remembers the first time Flash did the backspin: “He spent the night at my house, he woke up out of his sleep and turned the equipment on, it was like 2 or 3 o’clock in the morning. The first record he did it with was Karen Young’s “Hotshot” and he backspun it a bunch of times, and then turned to me and said “Yo, remember that and remind me about it when I wake up.” And he jumped back in his bed. When he woke up the next morning, he did it again.”

One could only imagine that night at the Executive Playhouse in front of hundreds of stunned spectators Flash cutting ‘Hotshot’ to pieces:
“Hot shot, hot shot, hot…hot shot hot shot hot…hot shot. Hot shot. Hot shot…hot...hot…hot.

“You know what at that battle, Flash showed the Bronx that he was for real”, said AJ. By Herc’s own admission by 1977 he was on the decline. Whether or not it had anything to do with him getting stabbed at the Executive Playhouse is open to speculation. What is a fact though, is that after this battle between two of the biggest stars of the era the name Grandmaster Flash was no longer relegated to a small section of the Bronx. His fame spread like wildfire throughout the city. According to more than just one person interviewed for this story, the long-term effects of the battle on Kool Herc were not good. In the weeks proceeding the battle Herc’s audience got smaller and smaller. They were leaving the Executive Playhouse for another hotspot: The Dixie, which was the home of Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Four.
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Ill-literature with Skillz to Blaze: One Night At the Executive Playhouse
 
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