Does the large Caribbean presence in NYC's Hip Hop scene explain the disconnect with other regions?

IllmaticDelta

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Rapping and DJing come from older American culture, yes. That's not what's in debate though.

What's in debate is just how big of a Caribbean influence there is on the norms of New York Hip Hop culture and how much does that paint their perception of the Hip Hop scenes in other regions that are not Caribbean-influenced outside of the obvious initial influence of New York.


@IllmaticDelta @Meh @mobbinfms @K.O.N.Y

HIpHop's roots/musical base, is American (Afram) to the bone. Nothing Carib about it. Infact, what Herc played was directly tied to Aframs not rocking with reggae/carib music...his playlist was more of a product of Afram tastes and the influence of Afram tastes on everyone else


A Salute To James Brown – The Godfather of Hip-Hop

So let us take a minute to recognize and realize just why James Brown is the alpha and omega of this hip-hop shyt….

Various hack music historians have drawn connections of their own to the origins of hip-hop music, but this is clearly a case where academia can get stuck to far up it’s own ass. Steven Hagar got the answer straight from the horse’s mouth in his ground-breaking 1984 book, Hip Hop: The Illustrated History of Break Dancing, Rap Music, and Graffiti:

Many critics have drawn parallels between the development of rap and reggae, a connection that is denied by Kool Herc.Jamaican toasting?” said Herc. “Naw, naw. No connection there. I couldn’t play reggae in the Bronx. People wouldn’t accept it. The inspiration for rap is James Brown and the album Hustler’s Convention.”

Not only was JB the inspiration for the music, but his legendary moves also played a large part in the development of breakdancing:

“There was no such thing as b-boys when we arrived, but Herc gave us that tag. Just like he named his sound system the Herculords and he called me and my brother the ****** Twins. He called his dancers the b-boys.” Despite their age, Keith and Kevin soon established themselves as the premier performers at Herc’s parties. “When we danced, we always had a crowd around us,” said Keith. “We wore Pro-Keds, double-knit pants, windbreakers, and hats we called ‘crushers.’ One of us would always have the hat on backwards and we both had straws in our mouth.” During the week, the twins spent hours working on new routines, inventing steps that would amaze the crowd. “James Brown had a lot to do with it,” explained Kevin, “because he used to do splits and slide across the floor.”

But just what exactly is it about Mr. Brown’s music that is so essential to rap? Lifelong fan Pete Rock, who’s nickname and short-lived Soul Brother record imprint were both modeled after JB, also agrees that without James Brown, hip-hop music as we know it would not exist:

“He’s been an influence to everyone. He’s the reason for hip-hop music – period! That’s it! He was it! He created ‘Boom! Bap!’ He created that! He made that. James Brown is definitely the creator of hip-hop because he’s the creator of “the one” and the snare hit, and the one and the two. “On the one” – that was important to him, and he wanted people to know how that’s done and what he was listening to in his head. I have the DVD where he breaks it down how he figured out how to make the drum beat! He figured it out. It’s ill, man. I love watching that DVD. It’s called Soul Survivor.

Pete even goes as far as to imply that the Godfather of Soul may have passed on some of his genius to him in person:

“I met James Brown when I was seven years old. My mom took me to a concert in Mt. Vernon, New York. He came and performed and me and my younger brother met him. My younger brother was six and I was seven and we met James Brown. It was crazy! When we met him I think he passed something on to me. I wasn’t the same after I met him. I went to his funeral – just standing there, lookin’ at him for a good hour. I was standing right next to his casket.”

Not only did James Brown inspire Kool Herc to create hip-hop, invent the “Boom! Bap!” drum rhythm and inspire break dancing, he’s also provided a wealth of breaks and samples that continue to drive great rap to this day. And yet where is due? No James Brown? No Prince or Michael Jackson (and definitely no Justin Timberlake or Pharrell). And, even more importantly, no “Rebel Without A Pause.”


unkut.com – A Tribute To Ignorance (Remix)
 

IllmaticDelta

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Interesting. How did so many Caribbean people become so pivotal in the beginnings of the culture if the South Bronx itself had a very tiny Caribbean presence?

If anything there was a more pronounced Carolinian (Afram) influence. Somehow the history got tangled/basterdized into people only knowing about Herc/Baam/Flash when there were many other's before them. The Carolinian influence is much bigger and goes back further.

Coke La Rock





one of the founders of the black spades and predated Herc, Disco King Mario





another black spades member, Kool D





Pete DJ Jones, taught flash Disco dj'ing and predated Herc

YEkY7ri.jpg


Grandmaster Flowers, another legend

 

NvrCMyNut

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Nope. Nyc isn't disconnected from other north east cities with minuscule Caribbean populations like Philly. And the influence of those cultures isn't all that big, this ain't London or Totonto. Gs9 were West Indian and indistinguishable from kids from Bed stuy who are African american, same thing with Ricans from bush wick. Dominicans are pretty much the only ones who don't assimilate culturally. Nyc is just an alpha city different from 90% of the country.
 

IllmaticDelta

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This was being discussed in another thread:


Explain why literally almost every New York rapper of note is Caribbean. To quote a list posted in this thread:

www.thecoli.com/threads/list-of-rappers-of-caribbean-descent-nicki-minaj-jay-z-50-cent-more.313275/




Not to mention all of the NY Puerto Rican and Cuban rappers.

Explain why almost literally every New York producer of note (Pete Rock, Memphis Bleek, Swizz Beatz, Heatmakerz, Grandmaster Flash, etc.) is Caribbean.

Explain the overwhelming disdain from the New York scene of Hip Hop music from other regions of the country that does not draw from their production and rap style.

I'll wait

a good deal of that list was bs:dwillhuh:
 

ogc163

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The disconnect comes from the unique lifestyle that comes with living in the northeast, NYC is pointed out as hating on the south/west because it's the mecca, but I know jersey and philly cats who will straight up tell you they refuse to listen to non-north east music. Places where caribbean and AA culture co-mingle make NYC unique but even if you took that out of the equation I don't think NY hip hop would have sounded any different
 

FruitOfTheVale

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HIpHop's roots/musical base, is American (Afram) to the bone. Nothing Carib about it. Infact, what Herc played was directly tied to Aframs not rocking with reggae/carib music...his playlist was more of a product of Afram tastes and the influence of Afram tastes on everyone else


A Salute To James Brown – The Godfather of Hip-Hop

unkut.com – A Tribute To Ignorance (Remix)

Clearly Hip Hop is not an offshoot of Reggae, my question is moreso whether so many people of Caribbean descent being arbiters of the NY Hip Hop culture has created a fundamental disconnect in culture between the New York/Tri-State scene and the scenes virtually everywhere else in the country.
 

FruitOfTheVale

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Nope. Nyc isn't disconnected from other north east cities with minuscule Caribbean populations like Philly. And the influence of those cultures isn't all that big, this ain't London or Totonto. Gs9 were West Indian and indistinguishable from kids from Bed stuy who are African american, same thing with Ricans from bush wick. Dominicans are pretty much the only ones who don't assimilate culturally. Nyc is just an alpha city different from 90% of the country.

This is a good point, Philly's demographics are much more in line with the rest of the country but clearly share a music history with NYC.

One thing to consider though is that the elements of Hip Hop themselves ARE derived from black culture... Philly was particularly huge for the Graff scene along with DJing and rapping.

And even rappers and rap fans from Philly got more of a connection with the rest of the country than NYC from what I've seen.
 

NvrCMyNut

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This is a good point, Philly's demographics are much more in line with the rest of the country but clearly share a music history with NYC.

One thing to consider though is that the elements of Hip Hop themselves ARE derived from black culture... Philly was particularly huge for the Graff scene along with DJing and rapping.

And even rappers and rap fans from Philly got more of a connection with the rest of the country than NYC from what I've seen.
Well Philly is closer to the south than Ny, Philly nikkas are more country but Philly still has more of a connection with nyc than most cities/towns in Pa.
 

IllmaticDelta

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Clearly Hip Hop is not an offshoot of Reggae, my question is moreso whether so many people of Caribbean descent being arbiters of the NY Hip Hop culture has created a fundamental disconnect in culture between the New York/Tri-State scene and the scenes virtually everywhere else in the country.

IMO, it has something to do with where the Aframs in NYC rooted back to vs other regions

the Southern root base for Aframs in the NYC/North East is different from Aframs in other regions. Aframs in the NorthEast are more upper south rooted

hu8bpwc.gif


in other regions, they are more gulf coast rooted

uFi4FeR.jpg
 

NvrCMyNut

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IMO, it has something to do with where the Aframs in NYC rooted back to vs other regions

the Southern root base for Aframs in the NYC/North East is different from Aframs in other regions. Aframs in the NorthEast are more upper south rooted

hu8bpwc.gif


in other regions, they are more gulf coast rooted

uFi4FeR.jpg
This is another good point because the Carolinas & Virginia never really seemed to connect to the rest of south, but ultimately what it comes down to lifestyle. Ny is just different. I remember watching menace/boyz in the hood like " :why: they got big ass houses, front lawn, back yard etc how is this the hood?" Little did I know that's what the vast majority of the hoods in this country are like
 

FruitOfTheVale

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IMO, it has something to do with where the Aframs in NYC rooted back to vs other regions

the Southern root base for Aframs in the NYC/North East is different from Aframs in other regions. Aframs in the NorthEast are more upper south rooted

hu8bpwc.gif


in other regions, they are more gulf coast rooted

uFi4FeR.jpg

This is a great point. The diaspora in the West Coast and the Midwest most def comes largely from TX and Louisiana (and in my case, Arkansas). I never really considered that the East Coast black population largely comes from a different section of the South (the Carolinas, VA, Kentucky, etc).

At the same time though, the upper South is far from uniform... Tennessee and Arkansas clearly share more in common with the gulf states than they do with the Carolinas or VA. Conversely, Southern Florida is culturally very different from the other gulf states thanks to the heavy Caribbean population. Northern Florida is more in line culturally with the gulf but interestingly enough, Hip Hop never really hit Northern/Central Florida like that.
 

Blessup

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SMH always the same insecure poster trying to discredit the Jamaican and carribbean influence in EVERY THREAD like this. THinking that because he post some book with a narrative that supports his view on the matter is the end all. GTFOH!
 
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