Do you feel that Wanda Maximoff got what she deserved after WandaVision and MOM? Should she come back Redeemed?

[Shogun]

I love WV, was just considering re-watching it.

It wasn't about cheering for Wanda, it was about empathn. Understanding moments in life where you can get caught up in the wirlwind for what seems right and righteious and making huge mistakes even with the best of motivations.

I felt that becasue I been there. Cheering for Hayward on the other hand is like cheering for The Sential program to succeed or some shyt. Wanda is a threat, just like Mutants in general are threats so it makes sense logically to try and build weaponry to combat them, but where are their hearts at? Hayward ain't give a fukk about the town, he wanted a successful trial run of his his new weapon.

Doing the wrong thing for the right reasons doing the right thing, for the wrong reasons

I understand both sides but I identify with Wanda more obviously, which is the point. If we going off just straight forward logic she should have been put down before Westview even happened.

Yeah I get all that, but that final fight was so juvenile and basic that they boiled it down to evil bad guy vs. good guy. They lost the benefit of the doubt of any nuance with that boneheaded finale.

And, give a fukk about the town or not....Heyward was not trying to takeover the world. He was the head of a government agency tasked with protecting the earth from intergalactic threats. He would be negligent in his responsibilities by not trying to reactivate Vision. It's impossible that his job would ever be "have empathy for those trying to destroy or enslave the Earth...don't be a big meanie who uses guns."

And...that was the dumb message of that show. Seriously...what was the writers intention in including Monica's insane line about how brave Wanda was? Do you think it was to build upon Monica's character, or to deliver the theme of the show to the audience with about as much subtlety as a sledge hammer? I suspect the latter....

 

[humminbird]

I think my beef with WandaVision stems from Wanda being one of the best “new” mcu characters at the time. Definitely my favorite. And then they straight ruined her for D+ subscriptions

Seriously, if you were cheering for Wanda to win that stupid final fight, and think Hayward deserved to get arrested consider the motivations of each. One wanted to keep their slave town, the other wanted to free the slave town. There’s nothing else to consider.

I had no idea

 

[humminbird]

Yeah I get all that, but that final fight was so juvenile and basic that they boiled it down to evil bad guy vs. good guy. They lost the benefit of the doubt of any nuance with that boneheaded finale.

And, give a fukk about the town or not....Heyward was not trying to takeover the world. He was the head of a government agency tasked with protecting the earth from intergalactic threats. He would be negligent in his responsibilities by not trying to reactivate Vision. It's impossible that his job would ever be "have empathy for those trying to destroy or enslave the Earth...don't be a big meanie who uses guns."

And...that was the dumb message of that show. Seriously...what was the writers intention in including Monica's insane line about how brave Wanda was? Do you think it was to build upon Monica's character, or to deliver the theme of the show to the audience with about as much subtlety as a sledge hammer? I suspect the latter....

the only thing that bothers me about Hayward is that he got arrested because of the skovia accords and then in She-Hulk you learn that the accords are repealed.
I wonder if he'll be able to fight his case now

 

[Shogun]

I had no idea

Yeah it’s possible to dislike modern marvel without being a sexist incel. Hard concept for many to grasp, I know.

Black Widow and Hawkeye were my favorite Avengers. Both also sacrificed at the alter of the shytty modern mcu.

 

[Shogun]

the only thing that bothers me about Hayward is that he got arrested because of the skovia accords and then in She-Hulk you learn that the accords are repealed.
I wonder if he'll be able to fight his case now

He got arrested because he was evil white government man. That was the extent of the writer’s thinking.

 

[Json]

Part of what I disliked immensely about WandaVision is how they obviously had to make the bad guy not Wanda.

Everything was leading to her needing to face her fears but need to make Agatha and Heyward the worse people.

Hayward’s line about having to live through the last five years is just paid dust to explain how messed up people are having threats with less heroes to help. A more complex characterization but nah. Hit him with a truck.

It was Agatha all along yet when you look at what happened besides killing a dog’s d brainwashing over a Pietro fake she didn’t do anything. The situation was all Wanda.

Wanda could come back but I’m not convinced Marvel is interested in telling anything but stale good vs evil stories

 

[klientel]

Nah she had to go. She’s too strong for the current villains. Her being around doesn’t work anymore unless she’s the villain and they aren’t gonna run with that one again.

It’s kinda like the problem they have with captain marvel, she’s too damn strong. But at least with her they can always fly her off world for a while to get her out of the way. The only thing you can do with Wanda now is make her a villain or kill her.

I think they intentionally left her fate vague so they can bring her back once they have someone that actually matches up with her

 

[WMG the 2nd]

That also explains why she died off screen. They just better hope the actress doesn’t age too much between now and then

She didn’t die lol

 

[AnonymityX1000]

Well, if theres mentally unstable witches running around enslaving and torturing entire towns....I would want Vision reactivated as well.

He wanted Vision reactivated before the hex. Nice try tho. lol

 

[Michael's Black Son]

I need her back!

Raw & Regret.

 

[SunZoo]

Yeah I get all that, but that final fight was so juvenile and basic that they boiled it down to evil bad guy vs. good guy. They lost the benefit of the doubt of any nuance with that boneheaded finale.

While the finale was rushed (due to covid), I don't think it negates nuance or any of the great things about the show that came before it.

And, give a fukk about the town or not....Heyward was not trying to takeover the world. He was the head of a government agency tasked with protecting the earth from intergalactic threats. He would be negligent in his responsibilities by not trying to reactivate Vision.

Yeah but Wanda wasn't trying to enslave or destroy anything. Like most mutants, her powers are unpredicable and chained to the flux of human emotion. The creator of the sentinals didn't necesserily want to take over the world, he just wanted a big enough gun to be able to stop a mutant level threat and felt like his solution was best, we know how that ends up.

Like I said, logical but being that this is all inspired by social justice, it's just as logical for the government to use drones and military grade weapons against the population to stave off revolution...as it is for the oppressed to want to violently revolt.

It's impossible that his job would ever be "have empathy for those trying to destroy or enslave the Earth...don't be a big meanie who uses guns." And...that was the dumb message of that show. Seriously...what was the writers intention in including Monica's insane line about how brave Wanda was? Do you think it was to build upon Monica's character, or to deliver the theme of the show to the audience with about as much subtlety as a sledge hammer? I suspect the latter....

The message I got from the show was to process your grief and loss before it consumes you and causes you to harm others others unconciously.

As for the bold, that bit in particular is foundtational to how the X-men will be percieved as opposed to The Avengers, something I've had to point up frequently in similar topics for people. some mutants have the powers to do such things and are going to be met with internment camps, experimentation, xenophobia and offensive action all while largely weilding powers they didn't ask for or may not fully understand, just like big red.

 

[Shogun]

While the finale was rushed (due to covid), I don't think it negates nuance or any of the great things about the show that came before it.



Yeah but Wanda wasn't trying to enslave or destroy anything. Like most mutants, her powers are unpredicable and chained to the flux of human emotion. The creator of the sentinals didn't necesserily want to take over the world, he just wanted a big enough gun to be able to stop a mutant level threat and felt like his solution was best, we know how that ends up.

Like I said, logical but being that this is all inspired by social justice, it's just as logical for the government to use drones and military grade weapons against the population to stave off revolution...as it is for the oppressed to want to violently revolt.

The message I got from the show was to process your grief and loss before it consumes you and causes you to harm others others unconciously.

As for the bold, that bit in particular is foundtational to how the X-men will be percieved as opposed to The Avengers, something I've had to point up frequently in similar topics for people. some mutants have the powers to do such things and are going to be met with internment camps, experimentation, xenophobia and offensive action all while largely weilding powers they didn't ask for or may not fully understand, just like big red.

I appreciate your points and mostly agree with them, I think what I'm focused on is how poorly the show executed those themes. What you've written is ten times more thoughtful than what they put on screen....which was incoherent. So incoherent that we're still rehashing this debate.

I mean, they included an entire song and music video to shift blame away from Wanda.

 

[Shogun]

He wanted Vision reactivated before the hex. Nice try tho. lol

But not before Thanos showed up and wiped out half the population for 5 years.
Anyone in Heyward's position would be trying desperately to find some sort of defense, and everyone would expect them to be.
Dumb point, tho. lol

 

[Jazzy B.]

Peep this.

Wanda, a white woman enslaves an entire town for her FAKE FAMILY, then goes on a killing spree to steal another woman's family and is made out to be some misguided hero.

Meanwhile a black man who attempts to liberate ALL BLACK PEOPLE GLOBALLY after winning the throne which he had a legitimate claim too is made out to be a selfish savage

 

[AnonymityX1000]

Peep this.

Wanda, a white woman enslaves an entire town for her FAKE FAMILY, then goes on a killing spree to steal another woman's family and is made out to be some misguided hero.

Meanwhile a black man who attempts to liberate ALL BLACK PEOPLE GLOBALLY after winning the throne which he had a legitimate claim too is made out to be a selfish savage

Uh, pretty sure Black Panther changed course, scolded his Dad on the astral plain and reached out to the world based off of Killmonger's efforts.