Do we have a qb development problem

[Peruvian Connect]

KC got Pat. Thats like saying the Bulls say otherwise with regards to Centers in the 90s.

Centers hadn't won shiit in forever. Kareem ain;t win but one title in like the early 70's until Magic showed up. Magic & Bird owned the 80s. Shiit Isiah got 2 with not so great centers. The fucck is you talking about?

Pat Mahomes ain't catching his own passes. His shiity wideouts is doing just enough to keep winning.

 

[vino]

Yes, professional sports want finished products they can plug in. They don’t allow players the opportunity to grow incrementally each year. As the financial investment drastically increased (from team to draft picks) the expectations followed suit. The players, the game and the fans are paying the price as a result.

 

[FTBS]

Receivers are more replaceable via the draft, especially with more and more WR deep drafts. For a team like the Bills it makes sense to draft receivers this year and next and let Diggs and free up his $29M cap hit.

Its hit or miss. For every Justin there are numerous Sky Moores, Toneys, Titus Youngs. Sure in theory it makes sense financially. But you really gonna put the franchise out there without either of his top 2 guys and replace them with a bunch of possibles?

 

[DropTopDoc]

We gotta stop using young Peyton to cape for current dudes. You cant compare numbers from then to numbers from now. You could still play defense then. Kurt Warner won MVP with 22 pics in the same year that Peyton threw 23. Peyton aint even lead the league that year. Conversely nobody has thrown that many picks since we moved to 17 games. It aint the same.

Yeah you can, it will never be a 1:1 but qbs struggle to adapt to the game because if you are going to play that game then Terry Bradshaw and them are gods because the defense rules were lighter

Excellent post. No one was tripping when Manning was a Pro Bowler with 19 ints in 2002, because like you said, all QBs were more prone to ints because you could actually play hard, physical defense without constriction. In the 2001 playoffs, the Rams picked off a still great Brett Favre, 6 times. The following SB, league MVP Rich Gannon got destroyed to the tune of 5 ints and 3 pick sixes. Though the last one, didnt matter. But still....

That’s because Peyton was the golden boy, with the renaissance at the position, you can’t be like back in the G it was cool, but now it’s a sin

Do y'all think the league will start devaluing receivers the same way they've devalued running backs? Seems like having a solid RB and receivers can prop up young QBs.

No, but if you don’t perform well it’s bout a hunnit mf who will take your spot

 

[Regular_P]

Truth is most of these QB's being picked in the first round aren't first round level talent.

We all or mostly knew Darnold, Trubisky, Pickett, Zach and a lot of college QB's didn't pass the eye test but they still got over drafted. We're seeing it now with JJ and probably Nix. Let these 2nd to 3rd round grade QB's go in those rounds and sit for a year or two.

Coaching and poor roster construction is definitely an issue. Fields shouldn't have played until the Bears got a decent O line and WR's. Mac Jones shouldn't have been getting play calls from Matt Patricia. Sit these guys until they have a decent chance to succeed. Figure out who has franchise level talent and who is just a game manager then build accordingly.

This is really the simplest answer and it's always been this way. Teams are always going to reach because the best QBs are rarely taken first overall.

Go back and look at 2017 mocks. Nobody had Mahomes rated that highly. I even saw one with Brad Kaaya and Deshone Kizer rated ahead of him; nevermind Trubisky and Watson.

Hurts and Purdy have been in the last two Super Bowls; Lamar has two MVPs; Josh Allen's been a beast; Dak Prescott, for all the jokes, has won a lot of games for the Cowboys. Brady was a sixth rounder; Rodgers was late first; Brees was a second; Flacco won a Super Bowl.

There's no rhyme or reason to it. Mahomes' success and to a lesser extent, Josh Allen's, will be the carrot on a stick in front of teams saying, "let's just get the kid with the physical tools and hope it works out." You just hope they become Mahomes/Allen and not Zach Wilson.

 

[Dzali OG]

You guys have missed the issue. I'll give you a possibility to show what's happening. I'm going use basketball and Michael Jordan.

No one knew Mike would be the greatest of all time. He wasn't dominating at the collegiate level.

What happened is, he was drafted into the right situation for him. That being having a coach that allowed him to become what he is. He could've been drafted to a team where the coach forced him to be what that coach wanted him to be. And not allowed the leadership qualities to develop.

I'm sorry guys, but that's just chance! How many QBs had the tools but didn't make it? We must wonder if they got in the right situation and were allowed to develop, would things have turned out different?

Teams, owners, and fans no longer give players the chance to grow. Some exceptional guys come in ready to be mvp right off the bat (very few). Most need 3-5 years, a good supporting cast, and comfort with one system. We seem to think a guy is a bust if he isn't Mahomes. Nvm that if Mahomes wasn't paired with Reid but say a coach like Fisher who wants 3 yards and dust.

If Mahomes had a coach like Fisher who wants 3 yards and dust and game management, MAHOMES would have been benched as being too much of a gambler! Same thing for Manning.

It all comes down to chance and luck. All these guys have been playing football forever. It comes down to what situation they're placed in and how much time they're given

 

[Still Benefited]

Bomani makes a great point. You look throughtout history and look at how much QBs...even great ones were asked to throw in their primes. Then you look at how much dudes throw out the gate now.

But this is it

Teams are shytty. They draft a QB into the shyt and he is supposed to magically turn the shyt into gold overnight. And when they dont all the blame goes on them. Rinse, repeat. Same thing happens in the NBA. Its easier to sell hope of the savior than it is to build an actual functional squad.

Can the team be good enough and the coach just be garbage?


How many great coaches in the NFL had great QBs? How many coaches in the nba had superstar players? Now you have to have the argument of who was responsible for whos greatness.


If most great qbs are a product of a great coach,then its simply an issue of most coaches being mid or crap,and that reflecting in their QBs. If great Qbs are responsible for great coaches,then we can say theres a QB problem. I think most Qbs are probably a product of the system. While you have a few QBs who are the system. So essentially unless your a great coach who can make alot of qbs look serviceable through your scheming. Your looking for a diamond in the rough in every draft. And that QB who is the system,probably isnt in every draft.


And just because a guy is that type of qb who is the system,doesnt mean he cant be figured out and limited later down the line. So you might have a short window with that guy and hes stuck on a crappy team. Making the team look decent due to his overwhelming talent. Only to be figured out by the time the shytty team builds around him.

 

[Still Benefited]

This is really the simplest answer and it's always been this way. Teams are always going to reach because the best QBs are rarely taken first overall.

Go back and look at 2017 mocks. Nobody had Mahomes rated that highly. I even saw one with Brad Kaaya and Deshone Kizer rated ahead of him; nevermind Trubisky and Watson.

Hurts and Purdy have been in the last two Super Bowls; Lamar has two MVPs; Josh Allen's been a beast; Dak Prescott, for all the jokes, has won a lot of games for the Cowboys. Brady was a sixth rounder; Rodgers was late first; Brees was a second; Flacco won a Super Bowl.

There's no rhyme or reason to it. Mahomes' success and to a lesser extent, Josh Allen's, will be the carrot on a stick in front of teams saying, "let's just get the kid with the physical tools and hope it works out." You just hope they become Mahomes/Allen and not Zach Wilson.

This is smart if the rest of the team were this understanding. Sure its probably smart to sit Fields while he develops,then his second contract will still be cheap during the period where he actually knows what hes doing. And you can build a team around him slowly during that period. But do you think the rest of the team wants to hear that if the starting qb is trash/mid? And the fanbase damn sure doesnt want to hear that. Letting them sit only really works if you already have a serviceable qb.

 

[CrimsonTider]

You guys have missed the issue. I'll give you a possibility to show what's happening. I'm going use basketball and Michael Jordan.

No one knew Mike would be the greatest of all time. He wasn't dominating at the collegiate level.

What happened is, he was drafted into the right situation for him. That being having a coach that allowed him to become what he is. He could've been drafted to a team where the coach forced him to be what that coach wanted him to be. And not allowed the leadership qualities to develop.

I'm sorry guys, but that's just chance! How many QBs had the tools but didn't make it? We must wonder if they got in the right situation and were allowed to develop, would things have turned out different?

Teams, owners, and fans no longer give players the chance to grow. Some exceptional guys come in ready to be mvp right off the bat (very few). Most need 3-5 years, a good supporting cast, and comfort with one system. We seem to think a guy is a bust if he isn't Mahomes. Nvm that if Mahomes wasn't paired with Reid but say a coach like Fisher who wants 3 yards and dust.

If Mahomes had a coach like Fisher who wants 3 yards and dust and game management, MAHOMES would have been benched as being too much of a gambler! Same thing for Manning.

It all comes down to chance and luck. All these guys have been playing football forever. It comes down to what situation they're placed in and how much time they're given

Look at Mac Jones in NE

but you got folk like @Brozay who think he was put in a position to succeed

 

[True Blue Moon]

I've been thinking this too based on how much hope and scrutiny goes into the top QBs in the draft. They talk about bad habits or imperfections like it's a death knell when these brehs are coming out at 20, 21 years old now. I get wanting to choose the most ready QBs available but breh aren't you supposed to be coaching these dudes up

 

[FTBS]

Yeah you can, it will never be a 1:1 but qbs struggle to adapt to the game because if you are going to play that game then Terry Bradshaw and them are gods because the defense rules were lighter

Thats all I was saying is that you cant do 1:1. And yeah any dude from 40 or so years ago putting up numbers anywhere near todays deserves extra points and is definitely special.

 

[BrehWyatt]

Everybody is looking for the next Patrick Mahomes and not considering the situation he walked into.

- He was drafted by a perennial playoff contender with an all-time offensive genius at head coach in Andy Reid.
- Said contender had a QB in Alex Smith who had not only been around the league and had played at a high level, but also embraced the role of mentor to develop Mahomes initially.
- The current GM of the Chiefs was 100 PERCENT SOLD on Mahomes while he was a freshman in college during his scouting days and did everything in his power to sell Reid and anybody else who'd listen on Mahomes.

I don't know of any QB that will EVER come into such a situation ever again. Everybody wants the franchise savior but isn't doing the damn work to ensure that savior can actually save the damn franchise. The Chiefs did the work, and enough teams went left to where they were able to get in position to get him.

Yes, the NFL has a QB development problem. It has a coaching problem (coaches largely don't develop QBs anymore) and an administrative problem (no patience). And as long as the QB position continues to be overvalued, this will never change.

 

[BrehWyatt]

It's also the rookie scale contracts, if a qb is a bust no reason to continue to invest into him because he's not getting paid a ginormous deal. Just cut your losses and move on.

From 2021-2022 there were 19 quarterbacks selected in the NFL Draft They SUCK its that simple, a stud qb ain't going to be in every draft

Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Justin FIelds, Kellon mond, davis mills,ian book, sam ehlinger,
pickett, ridder, malik willis, matt corral, bailey zappe, sam howell, oladokun, skylar thompson,

these dudes had chancles

Multiple starts for wilson, fields, mills, eglinger, pickett, ridder, malik willis, zappe, howell, thompson
they just don't have it

A lot of the QBs you named either shouldn't have been playing as early as they did or were never properly built around to set them up to succeed.

Sam Howell in particular showed enough to have a future and Washington shipped him out after one year where he looked like a rookie (ups and down).

 

[Brozay]

Look at Mac Jones in NE

but you got folk like @Brozay who think he was put in a position to succeed

I never said that lol

 

[Dzali OG]

Look at Mac Jones in NE

but you got folk like @Brozay who think he was put in a position to succeed

He came to a team that had no outside weapons and a coach who was smelling his own shyt. Which is a snip of what the league has become. The league has gone crazy with coaches and their "system". To the point where they die trying to force players into their system.

What happened to giving a player 2-3 years of being mediocre? While they grow and learn.