Do African borders need to be redrawn?

[Trajan]

I would put my money on the Nigeria being the one current African state that is going to eventually break apart. Like you said; they never really interacted before colonialism and they have already had one war (the Biafrian War) since colonialism ended. With Boko Haram floating around and the Nigerian central government basically being unable to shut them down; that sounds like shyt might get ethnic real fast over there.

The thread was actually inspired by this report:

Nigeria officials 'stole $15bn' from anti-Boko Haram fight

About $15bn (£10bn) was stolen from the fight against militant Islamists in Nigeria under the previous government, Vice-President Yemi Osinbajo has said.
The money was diverted through fraudulent arms contracts, he added. Several allies of ex-President Goodluck have been put on trial after being accused of awarding fake arms contracts worth $2bn. They deny any wrongdoing. President Muhammadu Buhari, who came to office last year, has vowed to fight corruption and recover "stolen funds".
Those facing charges included former National Security Adviser Sambo Dasuki, ex-military chiefs and several contractors. They have all pleaded not guilty.

Nigeria officials 'stole $15bn' from anti-Boko Haram fight - BBC News

If facing an existential threat is not enough. . .

No one has loyalty to the ''state''. It's a cash cow for elites.

 

[Nomad1]

Yes. Eastern Ethiopia and Northern Kenya belongs to Somalia.

*Edit, my post was kinda off-topic, but still stands.

 

[EthioLady]

Stop letting the Ethiopian nationalism get to you. Both Eritrea and Northern Ethiopia are both Hesbasha.

You are making a fool of yourself, why do you insert yourself in something you obviously know nothing about and where you don't belong? there's no such thing as habesha people, habesha ethnic groups or a unified habesha language, the term habesha is pseudonym and a foreign word that has no meaning in Ethiopian languages, so get over it..

Oromes don't even live in the highlands but more southern. Eritrea and northern Ethiopia have a common history that goes back to at least antiquity.

Who told you that Oromo's don't even live in the highlands? yes, some Oromo clans live in the northern highlands of the country.

The most dominant ethnic groups on both sides are the Tigrniya speaking christian highlanders of Eritrea and Tigray State of northern Ethiopia.

Stop talking rubbish, Tigrigna speakers form significant ethnic minorities in both countries.

The population percentages of the main ethnic groups in Ethiopia are

• Oromo 34.5%
• Amhara 26.9%
• Somali 6.2%
• Tigrayans 6.1%
• Sidama 4%
• Gurage 2.5%
• Wolayta 2.3%

 

[Bawon Samedi]

You are making a fool of yourself, why do you insert yourself in something you obviously know nothing about and where you don't belong? there's no such thing as habesha people, habesha ethnic groups or a unified habesha language, the term habesha is pseudonym and a foreign word that has no meaning in Ethiopian languages, so get over it..



Who told you that Oromo's don't even live in the highlands? yes, some Oromo clans live in the northern highlands of the country.



Stop talking rubbish, Tigrigna speakers form significant ethnic minorities in both countries.

The population percentages of the main ethnic groups in Ethiopia are

• Oromo 34.5%
• Amhara 26.9%
• Somali 6.2%
• Tigrayans 6.1%
• Sidama 4%
• Gurage 2.5%
• Wolayta 2.3%

Hey I'm not Ethiopian and I really don't care either way. I was just using Eritrea as an example. But more importantly you're not grasping that I only referring to NORTHERN Ethiopia and NOT the rest of Ethiopia like you keep hinting. Northern Ethiopia which the Tigrayans are a majority. So its maybe you that's making a fool of yourself. But again I don't care.

 

[Cynic]

Anyways, I think most of the countries in Southern Africa formed organically or its just that either southern African countries are more developed or don't have that many ethnic groups. So for them they don't really need to redraw their borders. Same with North Africa. West and East Africa seems to have the countries with large amounts of diverse ethnic groups, but also nations that had many states/kingdoms in it. For example Nigeria is a nation where before it had many separate kingdom/states that never interacted with each other like say Oyo empire and Kano state. But now they are al bunched together. But it gets worse with Mali when you have a nation dominated by Mande/Mandinka people and the other minorities being the Tuarag and Fulani. All three who were rivals with one another going back to the medieval times, but now they are all bunched together.

But in my opinion I don't think a nation like Nigeria should separate. Nigeria is a potential powerhouse if they stay together. A separate Nigeria would only become weaker imo. The north and south should work things out, but thats highly unlikely...

You need to look into southern african history before you start assuming with this.
Just because southern africa isn't having full scale ethnic wars doesn't mean it's more developed.
Sh!t wasn't Scotland trying to secede from the UK like a year ago ?


Southern Africans hate war .... and tribes have always one common enemy - the white man

 

[DrBanneker]

The borders of Africa are artificial, and it is a tragedy that Africa was not allowed to develop according to its own plan and instead got a shyt sandwich at the Congress of Berlin.

That being said, most of the cases I have seen for ethnic balkanization will make everything worse, not better. Africa started emerging from colonialism with Europe trying to break up countries in the name of "natural borders". When Belgium send the troops and mercenaries into Katanga in eastern Congo to sabotage Lumumba and grab the cooper, Katanga's leader Moise Tshombe used that whole Luba ethnicity as a justification. Recently Paul Kagame, with aid from the US and UK that was mysteriously never cut off, tried to annex East Congo since at one time in history it belonged to the ancient kingdom Rwanda emerged from. Biafra was a sad story, but it's over and I love my Ibo brothers and sisters but I would never support Ojukwu part II.

As logical as it sounds, splitting up African countries would create a free for all as the West, China, and maybe India prop up their favorites while heavy fighting is likely to occur where there are natural resources. In any case, Nigeria/Congo/both Sudans aside, ethnic revolutions and violence are down from thirty years ago. Ethnic insurgencies or conflicts in Senegal (Casamance), Ethiopia (well still issues here, i.e. Oromo comments by other posters), Liberia, and most other countries are being improved or worked out. National lingua franca is all either European or Arabic languages anyway. Ethnic homogeneity and traditional heritage don't guarantee success either. Botswana did well but Swaziland and Lesotho are still poor and problematic. Granted Lesotho has done a better job attracting industry.

Read George Ayittey's books. A lot of African conflict at its core is not ethnic but rather problems created by ruling elites which they try to dress up as 'ethnic' to save their ass and get support.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

You need to look into southern african history before you start assuming with this.
Just because southern africa isn't having full scale ethnic wars doesn't mean it's more developed.
Sh!t wasn't Scotland trying to secede from the UK like a year ago ?


Southern Africans hate war .... and tribes have always one common enemy - the white man

Then prove to me otherwise. Botswana, South Africa and Namibian are definitely more developed than compared to countries in regions such as East and West Africa. The only country I can think of that is not as developed is Zimbabwe.

And what does Scotland trying to secede from the UK have to do with what I was talking about?

 

[Cynic]

Then prove to me otherwise. Botswana, South Africa and Namibian are definitely more developed than compared to countries in regions such as East and West Africa. The only country I can think of that is not as developed is Zimbabwe.

And what does Scotland trying to secede from the UK have to do with what I was talking about?

Visit Southern Africa yourself.... or talk to some Zulus, Xhosas, Vendas, Sothos, Shonas, Tongas, Tswanas


You alluding to the lack of conflict down to how developed a country is ludicrous


Have you been to Botswana or Zimbabwe breh ?


I have in the 90s, 00s and 10s...perhaps stick to East and West Africa







.

 

[Grano-Grano]

Yes. Eastern Ethiopia and Northern Kenya belongs to Somalia.

*Edit, my post was kinda off-topic, but still stands.

Exactly, Somaliweyn haa noolato

 

[Blackrogue]

Most countries are comfortable with the borders. Although theres underlying conflict with people still not over it.e.g Somalia still feels they own north Eastern Kenya. But really that place is no man's land.

The book I mentioned talks about how artificial the borders are but unless one part of the country undermines another like north Sudan did south despite south housing the expenses there won't be any breaks.

I endorse possibly a pan African virtual currency like a bit coin without the shortfalls of the euro.

 

[Grano-Grano]

Most countries are comfortable with the borders. Although theres underlying conflict with people still not over it.e.g Somalia still feels they own north Eastern Kenya. But really that place is no man's land.

The book I mentioned talks about how artificial the borders are but unless one part of the country undermines another like north Sudan did south despite south housing the expenses there won't be any breaks.

I endorse possibly a pan African virtual currency like a bit coin without the shortfalls of the euro.

We do own it. We will get it back through force or negotiations. The real enemies of Somalis are Ethiopians and Kenyans who thrive off the instability and balkanization of Somalia.

 

[EthioLady]

Hey I'm not Ethiopian and I really don't care either way. I was just using Eritrea as an example. But more importantly you're not grasping that I only referring to NORTHERN Ethiopia and NOT the rest of Ethiopia like you keep hinting. Northern Ethiopia which the Tigrayans are a majority. So its maybe you that's making a fool of yourself. But again I don't care.

If you don't know something, just say you don't know it, we Amhara make up the majority of northern Ethiopian population not Tigrayans, but anyway, stay ignorant.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Visit Southern Africa yourself.... or talk to some Zulus, Xhosas, Vendas, Sothos, Shonas, Tongas, Tswanas


You alluding to the lack of conflict down to how developed a country is ludicrous


Have you been to Botswana or Zimbabwe breh ?


I have in the 90s, 00s and 10s...perhaps stick to East and West Africa







.

What does me not visiting those countries have to do with anything? You visited those countries? Good for you. You want an award? You still have not corrected my claim on whether or not South African region is more developed than other regions of Africa. So my point still stands...

"Anyways, I think most of the countries in Southern Africa formed organically or its just that either southern African countries are more developed or don't have that many ethnic groups."

Which is why to me they don't NEED to "redraw their borders" because of lack of ethnic conflict. Which everyone in this thread claims is the main root of problem with conflicts in Africa.

And developed countries have less conflicts such as civil wars, because well... They're DEVELOPED. This is common sense and what is so "ludicrous" about? Developed infrastructure and stable governments minimizes conflicts and southern African countries have that compared to other regions of Africa. I don't care if I haven't been to a southern African country, I can easily read statistics and news online.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

If you don't know something, just say you don't know it, we Amhara make up the majority of northern Ethiopian population not Tigrayans, but anyway, stay ignorant.

I guess you missed the part where I said I'm not Ethiopian? Either way Eritrea and Northern Ethiopia share a same history going all the way back to Axum. Eritrea until the late 20th century has always been organically apart of Ethiopia. Which is what I really been trying to say.

 

[joeychizzle]

Wouldn't political alliances be better than border shifts? Surely a mutually beneficial agreement would be better than just changing lines drawn in the sand?