"DJ Hollywood and his crowd were the first rapping to the beat, not Herc's crowd" - Melle Mel

[IllmaticDelta]

that's cool and all but how do you explain Pigmeat Markham? Dude was rappin rappin

As I said earlier

people was rapping before that but in this sense; we mean rapping that involved 2 turntables and a mixer over breaks, mode

 

[IllmaticDelta]

@IllmaticDelta posted a source earlier itt that mentioned the isolation of the bronx was why they had the time and space to put the pillars together. But that Harlem was the stage. Where they presented hip hop to the world, established the flashiness of hip hop, etc.

In the opinion of Grandmaster Caz

Troy L. What would you say is the difference between Harlem World and T- Connection?

Caz I don’t know, Harlem World was more a show place. T- Connection was more a homey place like for the brothers in the hood. It didn’t have to be a big production it was just jammin’. Brothers just came to hear other brothers jam. When you went to Harlem World, you went to see a show. By the time, it got to Harlem World groups where more tighter, their presentations where better. Their shows where more like a show then just getting on and rocking.


Troy L. Which of the two did you like the best, to do your thing?


Caz I liked Harlem World. More people had access such as Brooklyn. You could not get Brooklyn to come to the Bronx.

HARLEMCAZ

HARLEMCAZ

 

[Ghost Utmost]

The invention of Hip Hop is not rapping over an existing record of a different genre

I know y'all are used to Sugar Hill and MC Hammer and such doing shyt like that. But that wouldn't make a new genre.

Hip Hop specifically is finding break beats and extending them with turntables.

And the BBoys break dancing to this style of music

I rap. I think rappers are the shyt. But the beats is the beginning. No rappers in the modern sense were spitting 16 bar verses over the earliest Hip Hop. The DJ was saying chants into the Mic and then he handed that duty off to his homie who didn't have to man the turn tables.

Then that dude sat around thinking of longer and longer rhymes

 

[IllmaticDelta]

The invention of Hip Hop is not rapping over an existing record of a different genre

I know y'all are used to Sugar Hill and MC Hammer and such doing shyt like that. But that wouldn't make a new genre.

Hip Hop specifically is finding break beats and extending them with turntables.

And the BBoys break dancing to this style of music

I rap. I think rappers are the shyt. But the beats is the beginning. No rappers in the modern sense were spitting 16 bar verses over the earliest Hip Hop. The DJ was saying chants into the Mic and then he handed that duty off to his homie who didn't have to man the turn tables.

Then that dude sat around thinking of longer and longer rhymes

it was the rappers (Luvbug Starski) that coined the term "HipHop"

 

[truth2you]

yo wheres mels family from @IllmaticDelta

South Carolina

 

[IllmaticDelta]

South Carolina

From his brother's website

The Kidd Creole one of the founding members of the Hip Hop pioneering group "Grandmaster Flash and The Furious 5" born in The Bronx, New York as Nathaniel Glover Jr. The Third son of Sarah K. Glover, (born in Reidsville, Georgia, USA) and the first son of Nathaniel Glover Sr. (born in Charleston, South Carolina, USA) with his brother Mele Mel (Melvin Glover) was exposed to poetry early in life (around the age of 10 or 11) by his sister Glander (who also shares a birthday with him, born a year earlier) she wrote poems and would recite them for her siblings this was the link that allowed him (first Mele Mel who wrote the first hip hop style rhyme) to transition from listening to poetry and then taking that knowledge and applying it to the music that was being played early in hip hop culture

https://www.thekiddcreole.com/biography

 

[K.O.N.Y]

From his brother's website



https://www.thekiddcreole.com/biography

I got the Same last name

with paternal lineage to charleston

Spoiler

iza related to hip hop royalty

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Let me address this post fully

The invention of Hip Hop is not rapping over an existing record of a different genre

The the first thing ever called HipHop was the rapping on the mic music; not bboy battles

Hip Hop specifically is finding break beats and extending them with turntables.

see above

And the BBoys break dancing to this style of music

The rapping on the mic of Dj Hollywood predates anything attributed to Herc; this same Hollywood crowd is where the term HipHOp came from

But the beats is the beginning. No rappers in the modern sense were spitting 16 bar verses over the earliest Hip Hop.

Those beats were from Funk and Disco! There was no actual new HipHop sound (that diverged from Disco/Funk) from a musical POV until the 80s

The DJ was saying chants into the Mic and then he handed that duty off to his homie who didn't have to man the turn tables.

Then that dude sat around thinking of longer and longer rhymes

The herc crowd (west bronx) had simple chants and shouts until Melle/Caz came along (closer to late 70s)

The so-called Disco guys had chants and full blown rapping (syncopated) since the early 70s

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to sum up the stages and different streams

Dj Hollywood crowd was rapping (in the modern sense) on the mic since at least 1970/1971



1970/1971...Kool D who was a part of that Dj Hollywood/Flowers/Pete Dj Jones crowd (they played in clubs and outside)






rest

Spoiler

left brooklyn and moved to the Bronx where he met up with Disco King Mario. Mario was the first DJ in the Bronx parks to play specifically for teens + he brought the gang energy that would pave the way for Afrika Baambatta and the Zulu's



Look at the year this article was published on/about Disco King Mario

1972!!! Herc, Baam and Flash weren't making any noise in 1972.





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Herc came in around 1973 to make an impact IN HIS HOOD INTHE WEST BRONX but what we now call HIpHop was already around. The myth that the DJ and bboy was the birth of HipHop @ Kool Herc parties is exactly that: A MYTH


when you put more of the timeline into its proper context


Even dudes that later went to Herc's parties/were part of his crew have basically verified this.


Almighty KG from Cold Crush



recent interview (he's from herc's area)

NORIN RAD:"Most people probably know you for your great contributions to the Hiphop element of MCing as a legendary member of the Cold Crush Four MCees but as you told me you were once also a B-Boy. So when and where did you witness Breaking for the very first time?"

ALMIGHTY KG:"Well, I first witnessed Breaking in about 1971 at a DJ Smokey & The Master Plan Bunch party on Grant Avenue. I saw this guy named Crip and the original Mr. Freeze breakdancing and that's kinda like when I caught the bug right there....breakdancing. "

NORIN RAD:"Do you recall what made you go to this particular party."

ALMIGHTY KG:"Yeah, they lived right around the corner from me and I heard the music (chuckles) so I went around the corner to see what it was 'cause at this time nobody was doing block parties that I knew of, you know? It was 1971 so I didn't know what all this noise was about...so I went around the corner to see what it was and when I walked up to it.. it was an outside block party jam."

NORIN RAD:"Since you've said that you lived right around the corner from Grant Avenue where exactly did you live at during that time?"

ALMIGHTY KG:"I lived on 170th street & Morris Avenue which is right around the corner from 169th & Grant (where DJ Smoke(y) used to live and throw parties at)."

NORIN RAD:"So I guess after this event you would continue to go to DJ Smoke(y)'s parties, right?"

ALMIGHTY KG:"Every now and then...I went to about three or four of them before I moved..and then I moved to 172nd Street & Selwyn Avenue which is just a of couple blocks away... yeah, I moved a couple of blocks away and I attended several DJ Smokey parties."

NORIN RAD:"Most people today have a certain image of what Breaking looks like in their mind but could you elaborate please on how the dance looked like when you first saw it?"

ALMIGHTY KG:"When I first saw it was more Uprock than it was like spinning on your back and stuff like that. That actually came a little later. It was more Uprocking....it was more about expressions and things like that, you know what I'm saying? When I saw these guys breakdancing which was The Smoke-A-Trons and The Luke-A-Trons.......but you know The Smoke-A-Trons they would do something I had never seen before and that I have never seen since. They were all like gymnastics and they would do somersaults and Arabian Nights..those are like flips you see in the olympics... and go down on the floor and all that. I never passed that test to do the flipping....because I wasn't a gymnast but these guys were like street gymnasts and they were like really good...You know how you see like sometimes B-Boys they do a B-Boy move and then they go down on the ground...these guys were doing that with flips and stuff like that!! It was incredible....it was so incredible so that's what I wanted to do 'cause I was too young to buy equipment (for DJing) and Graffiti... I knew that I couldn't do that because you know I didn't want to get caught and my moms and my pops have to come to get me from jail or court. So you know I couldn't do the vandalizing and I was too young to even do the vandalizing thing but the only thing that I really could do was breakdancing.... that was free and I didn't bother nobody or harm nobody or anything like that, you know?"

Castles In The Sky: August 2018


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Pow Wow from Soul Sonic Force/Zulu Nation



his thoughts

Well, when did you guys decide that, from the Zulu Kings and all, that you three and Bambaataa were going to be The Soulsonic Force, more as a music group?

Oh well, there was a whole bunch of us. I think there was about eight of us at one time. But cats didn't want to come to practice, and only comin' to parties when they wanna come and stuff like that. Like originally Mr. Biggs was an MC, but he wasn't really into it like me and G.L.O.B.E. And my first partner, Love Kid Hutch, used to be down us. He used to be down with Busy Bee Starski. Used to be Starski and Hutch, but they broke up. But Hutch wound up going with Disco King Mario, bless his soul, and The Chuck City Crew; and after that, we came our way. The rest is history. And he left and went the way he wanted to go, instead of coming to practice like I said, like me, Biggs and G.L.O.B.E. was doing.

They cut they own selves off. I'm a team player, that's how I get down. If the team wins, then I'm gonna win. But if I think I can leave and then come back three or four days later and the format's done changed up on your ass, and you're wondering wow, what happened? Why nobody told me? Because you were not there. You gotta go to work every day, and that was our work. Me and G.L.O.B.E. sat down and ate it, breathed it, and got to the point where we ran out of fukking words to rhyme, man!

So it wound up just being us three that stuck it out. 'Cause me and G.L.O.B.E. were more in the hip-hop area than the Bronx River was. See, where we came from, we were hip-hop, with The L Brothers, DJ Smokey and the Smokeatron, he was from Grand Avenue. And a lot of guys, they don't talk about him. I'll get back to what we were saying, but DJ Smokey, and his brother Roscoe and the Smokeatron, they were the baddest motherfukkers out at the time, man. I mean, Flash couldn't touch them, Kool Herc couldn't touch them. Nobody was touchin' Smokey. And a lot of cats will not speak on him, which they should, because he is also a pioneer of hip-hop music.

And what happened to him?

I heard he moved out of state. I heard he moved before hip-hop music turned big. I guess he cut it loose and went about his life, but DJ Smokey and his brother Roscoe, let me tell you, they threw the baddest parties. You wanted to see some guys that could dance? Man, it was a show! There's a movie theatre we had over on 174th St in the Bronx River called The Dover movie theatre that had a place you could give parties - it's a church now - but he made that spot very popular. He used to throw block parties mostly on Grand Avenue. And this guy here, I wanna let the world know about him; he definitely deserves his props, man, because he was there in the beginning. And a lot of guys don't that brother his recognition, which is sad; and I'ma give it to him every time all the time

Werner von Wallenrod's Humble, Little Hip-Hop Blog: Be What You Be - Pow Wow Interview (Soulsonic part 1)

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here goes an OG bboy who was part of herc's team who said he was bboying way before he heard of herc and was down with dj dmoke first!

Clark Kent:

NORIN RAD:"What was your relationship with the legendary (N***er) Twins?"

CLARK KENT:"Well, we met when we were 8 years old and we did everything together in the beginning of hiphop. If you saw me, you saw the Twins...if you saw the Twins, you saw me..our names were cemented together, okay?! There's nothing that they were involved in that I wasn't there for and there is nothing that I was involved in that they wasn't there for. We were like triplets. Wherever you seen one you seen all three of us when it came to movin' around in Hiphop. We used to travel down to Chuck Center which is one of the places we really honed our skills at before finding out about Kool Herc and going to Kool Herc's parties. We would go to Chuck Center like every other week 'cause they had a dance contest and we used to love winning that dance contest."

NORIN RAD:"That's some precious knowledge!!! Chuck Center was located in East Harlem, right?"

CLARK KENT: "Yes on 115th Street & 2nd Avenue."

NORIN RAD: "So you were basically breaking at Chuck Center BEFORE you met Kool Herc?"

CLARK KENT:"Before I even met Kool Herc! That's where The (N***er) Twins and I honed our skills and we would go down there with cats like Wallace Dee and Chip. These are guys from the era of like Trixie and them. We ran with a whole host of cats down there before we found out what Herc was doing what he was doing on the Westside (of the Bronx).One of the names I wanna mention though is Dancing Doug!!!Back then Chuck Center was one of the places where we encountered Dancing Doug! The premier place to do breaking became Kool Herc's parties but prior to Kool Herc's we used to go to (DJ) Smokey's parties, you know, the Twins and I. From Smokey's we caught on to Chuck Center and then from Chuck Center we caught on to what Herc was doing. And out of all the places we went, you know, we honed our skills! A lot of people have this misconception that we got our skills at Kool Herc's...by the time the Twins and I arrived at Kool Herc's we was already elite!!!! And that's why we quickly ran through whoever thought they was somebody at Kool Herc's at that time. It was only a matter of time before you got on our nerves and you kept running your mouth.. and we waited untiltil you were dancing in your little circle and I would jumped into your circle and make short work of you. That's how we got down at Kool Herc's parties. Like a lot of our stuff was never premeditated. I have heard when you interviewed other people and they said,"Well, guys come in and say I wanna battle you!"That wasn't my and the Twins experience! We took on people without them knowing we was coming. By the time we jumped your circle if you thought you was somebody it's too late to run.... You're trapped now!"

NORIN RAD: "Damn! I have to gather myself!!! That's some heavy knowledge!! So there were Harlem B-Boys trying to bring it to you in 1973 at Chuck Center?"

CLARK KENT:"And we would eat'em like lunch."

Castles In The Sky

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melle mel mentions him as the first person he saw doing hiphop in the west bronx




Green Eyed Gene is from Brondale and his thoughts on Smokey/Herc





...........that herc origin myth is exactly that, a myth







Dj Kool D, Dj Hollywood, Pete Dj Jones etc.. all did blends, break beat repeating and mixing

Tyrone The Mixoligist (kool D's brother) did an early version of scratching but Theordore took it to another level

Tyrone and Kool D are talking about it



them again



all things herc didn't/couldn't do...also

Baam on who put him on

 

[Ghost Utmost]

Let me address this post fully



The the first thing ever called HipHop was the rapping on the mic music; not bboy battles



see above



The rapping on the mic of Dj Hollywood predates anything attributed to Herc; this same Hollywood crowd is where the term HipHOp came from



Those beats were from Funk and Disco! There was no actual new HipHop sound (that diverged from Disco/Funk) from a musical POV until the 80s





The herc crowd (west bronx) had simple chants and shouts until Melle/Caz came along (closer to late 70s)

The so-called Disco guys had chants and full blown rapping (syncopated) since the early 70s

.
.

to sum up the stages and different streams

Dj Hollywood crowd was rapping (in the modern sense) on the mic since at least 1970/1971



1970/1971...Kool D who was a part of that Dj Hollywood/Flowers/Pete Dj Jones crowd (they played in clubs and outside)






rest

Spoiler

left brooklyn and moved to the Bronx where he met up with Disco King Mario. Mario was the first DJ in the Bronx parks to play specifically for teens + he brought the gang energy that would pave the way for Afrika Baambatta and the Zulu's



Look at the year this article was published on/about Disco King Mario

1972!!! Herc, Baam and Flash weren't making any noise in 1972.





.
.
.

Herc came in around 1973 to make an impact IN HIS HOOD INTHE WEST BRONX but what we now call HIpHop was already around. The myth that the DJ and bboy was the birth of HipHop @ Kool Herc parties is exactly that: A MYTH


when you put more of the timeline into its proper context


Even dudes that later went to Herc's parties/were part of his crew have basically verified this.


Almighty KG from Cold Crush



recent interview (he's from herc's area)



Castles In The Sky: August 2018


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.

Pow Wow from Soul Sonic Force/Zulu Nation



his thoughts



Werner von Wallenrod's Humble, Little Hip-Hop Blog: Be What You Be - Pow Wow Interview (Soulsonic part 1)

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.
.

here goes an OG bboy who was part of herc's team who said he was bboying way before he heard of herc and was down with dj dmoke first!

Clark Kent:

Castles In The Sky

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.
.
melle mel mentions him as the first person he saw doing hiphop in the west bronx




Green Eyed Gene is from Brondale and his thoughts on Smokey/Herc





...........that herc origin myth is exactly that, a myth







Dj Kool D, Dj Hollywood, Pete Dj Jones etc.. all did blends, break beat repeating and mixing

Tyrone The Mixoligist (kool D's brother) did an early version of scratching but Theordore took it to another level

Tyrone and Kool D are talking about it



them again



all things herc didn't/couldn't do...also

Baam on who put him on

Break beats come from all kinds of record. Mickey Mouse records.

You're making some kind of expose and that's gotta be fun

All I am saying is y'all are talking around a necessary point

Break beats were being chopped and looped - on turntables at first, later with computers - because Hip Hop was not in existence and they were building it. From older building blocks.

What was being created was the super drum heavy bass heavy rhythm heavy electronic music

That people would Break dance to. Break beat. Break dance. B Boy.

That was the original format. Upon which people primarily rapped. Rappers rapped outside of Hip Hop. Especially before it existed. But even after.

Rapping is a key characteristic of Hip Hop. But not the foundation or the main ingredient

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Break beats come from all kinds of record. Mickey Mouse records.

break beats were were a funk/disco thing and songs influenced by those genres would have breaks (jazz or rock)

You're making some kind of expose and that's gotta be fun

All I am saying is y'all are talking around a necessary point

Break beats were being chopped and looped - on turntables at first, later with computers - because Hip Hop was not in existence and they were building it. From older building blocks





What was being created was the super drum heavy bass heavy rhythm heavy electronic music

this has nothing to do with early hiphop/jams

That people would Break dance to. Break beat. Break dance. B Boy.

That was the original format.

I just explained to why this is chronologically wrong

Upon which people primarily rapped. Rappers rapped outside of Hip Hop. Especially before it existed. But even after.

Rapping is a key characteristic of Hip Hop. But not the foundation or the main ingredient

Rapping is w/o a doubt the key characteristic of HipHop:


1). Rapping on the mic was what gave early hiphop the distinction from Funk/Disco musically and how it would become a genre/movement unto itself






2) Breaks/breakbeat dj'ing did not begin with what we now call hiphop: It originated in the Disco world.

Some of the records that Flowers was known for playing include “Space Age” by the Jimmy Castor Bunch, “Sunnin’ And Funnin’ by MFSB, “Somebody’s Gotta Go” by Mike and Bill. “Touch and Go” by Ecstasy, Passion and Pain, “Changes” by Vernon Burch and “Messin’ With My Mind” by Labelle. Another favorite of his was the rock group Babe Ruth’s “The Mexican” (which would later become a hip hop staple as a breakbeat record and sample). He would mix that with James Brown material, and he was also known to on occasion, use three turntables simultaneously. (He would combine Chic’s “Good Times,” MFSB’s “Love Is The Message,” and Vaughan Mason and Crew’s “Bounce Skate Roll Bounce” for example.)

RAPAMANIA: GRANDMASTER FLOWERS AND THE MOBILE DJ MOVEMENT by Steven Stancell

Troy- I am surprised to hear that. O.K. I am going to throw out some names give me some feedback on them any way you like or as long as you like. First up Grand Master Flowers. Now what I have on Flowers is he darkened the labels on his records. Flowers also made you expand your music after you heard him play James Brown and Babe Ruth together.

Plummer- Oh yeah I thought that was cool. Flowers was different kind of mixer. You go into the gay clubs and they use to play a lot of hustle type dance music. They also played with the music with the highs and lows and mix with the sound effects and stuff. But they would not pull out the Funk, or they would not go into rock. Flowers was sort of like a Jimmy Hendrix he would do everything and you were always learning from him. But the thing about him is he played these games, he would darken his records and stuff. A lot of times we knew what it was and if we didn’t we would make it our business to find out. But it wasn’t a cut throat type of thing. He and I had a pretty good relationship, we didn’t ever sour our relationship. People would talk junk but we knew it was just that, junk. But you know between myself, Flowers, Maboya and Pete D.j. Jones you heard our names on the radio more than anyone else.

Troy- Alright tell me about that James Brown and Babe Ruth mix by Flowers.

Plummer- Yeah when Flowers played that I didn’t know who Babe Ruth and The Mexican jam was and so when I heard this high shrill voice and with this Spanish sort of sounding instruments in the back and I thought this was cool because it just blended so nicely and only Flowers would do something like that, at least at that time. Later on everybody else started doing stuff like that as well.

Old School Hip Hop Interviews - DJ Plummer | OldSchoolHipHop.Com

and

"We spun breaks back then too", Pete Jones says, "I played "Do it anyway you wanna," 'Scorpio', 'Bongo Rock', BT Express, Crown Heights Affair, Kool and the Gang, we played all of that stuff - and we'd keep the break going too. I played it all, disco, it didn't matter, there was no hip-hop per se back then, except for the parts we made up by spinning it over and over again."
There have been so many stories written about hip-hop's early days that have not reported on the guys that spun in Manhattan and Brooklyn in the early and mid '70's, that many crucial deejays of that time feel left out.
"Kool Herc and guys like that didn't have a big reputation back then", explains Jones, "they were in the Bronx - we, meaning guys like myself and Flowers, we played everywhere, so we were known. Their crowd was anywhere between 4 to 70. Mine was 18-22. They played in parks - where anybody could go, no matter how old you are you could go to a park. We played in clubs."
With a sense of urgency Mr. Jones says, "I have to clear something up, many people think that we played disco - that's not true. There were two things happening in black music at that time: there was the "Hustle" type music being played - which was stuff like Van McCoy's "Do the Hustle" - I couldn't stand that record. And then there were the funky type records that mixed the Blues and jazz with Latin percussion that would later be called funk. Well, hip-hop emerged from that."
He places special emphasis on the word 'emerged'. He says that because "If you know anything about the history of music, you know, no one person created anything, it 'emerges' from different things.

RAPAMANIA: KOOL HERC VS PETE DJ JONES By Mark Skillz








3. What we now call bboying originated in brooklyn/harlem rocking (which was witnessed at Discos) and the burning dances of gangs like the Black Spades. Not amongst people who identified themselves as HipHop djs

Uprock, or Rocking as it was originally referred to, also known as Rock, is a competitive urban street dance, performed to the beats and rhythms of soul, rock and funk music, but was mostly danced to a specific and exclusive collection of songs that contained a hard driving beat. An example of such a song is the Uprock classic "It's Just Begun" by noted jazz musician Jimmy Castor. The dance consists of foot shuffles, spins, turns, freestyle movements and more characteristically a four-point sudden body movement called "jerk".

Uprock evolved in New York City circa in the late 1960s. A precursor and influence to this form of dance was gang culture.

As Rocking/Uprocking developed, body movements called "jerks" and hand gestures called "burns" (as defined above in this article), would be added to emulate a fight against an opposing dancer. Being skillful in this new dance form, Apache would get the better of his opponents by skillfully using burns. Dancers throughout New York City in all Boroughs continued to invent new movements and gestures to create a street dance. Many gang members began to perform this dance. It became commonplace to see gang members hanging out in corners dancing against each other. Rocking/Uprocking became a competitive dance that caught on very quickly.

now, connect the dots....

On the Ilixor boards, PappaWheelie reports that "At a lecture about hip hop history at the Brooklyn public library the lecturer was interupted, while claiming hip hop to have originated out in the Bronx, by an angry man claiming hip hop to have started out in Brooklyn. After gaing the attention of the crowd the man, whose name escapes me now, proceded to produce photos and a flyer, both dated 1968, of Grandmaster Flowers rocking a party of thousands in Brooklyn and in the front row are what appeared to be bboys uprocking. Who knows, it might just turn out to be that Brooklyn keeps on makin it and its the Bronx that keeps on takin it."

Brooklyn Music: BrooklynBio: The Mystery of Grandmaster Flowers

and

Plummer- Yes, see I wasn’t in it to make a lot of money, that wasn’t in my mind. Had I seriously thought about that I don’t know if I seriously would have gotten as far and as fast as I did. The reason why I bought up Sedley is because he sounded like Hank Spann on the radio, so he was rapping over the records and all of the sudden between Pete d.j. Jones and myself we had a guy to rap over our music and then Flowers too got an m.c or two. Like I said we copied off of each other and so we all just got better every quickly.

Then there was these guys called the City Steppers (Flame, Michael, Dungie and Doc) and Sedley knew these folks. These were the guys that would take the card board out there and they would start doing break dancing and stuff, this was 1973, 74 and 75 I guess. They would come with us and do all this fantastic stuff and it just seemed like it happened so quickly.

Old School Hip Hop Interviews - DJ Plummer | OldSchoolHipHop.Com
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people keep trying to link the birth of hiphop to herc with beginning of breakbeats and bboys but this has all been proven false

Herc himself said




Herc:

When did you start to get involved in it?

I started to get involved in it right after my house got burned down. I was going to parties back then, see. A place called the Tunnel and a place called the Puzzle, right on 161st Street – that was the first disco I used to party at. Me, guys like Phase 2, Stay High, Sweet Duke, Lionel 163 – all the early graffiti writers – used to come through there. It’s where we used to meet up and party at.

Then, years later, [there was this club] called Disco Fever. Disco Fever used to be right here on 167th. But before Disco Fever there was the Puzzle. That was the first Bronx disco.


So back then you still weren’t playing?

I was dancing, I was partying. Right around 1970, I’m in high school.

That was when b-boying was starting?


Yeah, people were dancing, but they weren’t calling it b-boying. That was just the break, and people would go off. My terms came in after I started to play – I called them b-boys. Guys just used to breakdance… Right then, slang was in, and we shortened words down. Instead of disrespect, you know, you dissed me. That’s where that came from.

Red Bull Music Academy Daily








4. The term HipHop itself came from these rapping "Disco" dj's


to sum this up:

--There was bboying and break beat djing before herc -----> and with that, there was still no distinct subculture or genre unto itself with those elements apart from Disco/Funk

---Rapping dj's predate the Herc/breakbeats/bboys myth

---Same rapping djs coined the term HipHop and this is where the culture got its name

 

[Ghost Utmost]

break beats were were a funk/disco thing and songs influenced by those genres would have breaks (jazz or rock)

You're making some kind of expose and that's gotta be fun




this has nothing to do with early hiphop/jams




I just explained to why this is chronologically wrong




Rapping is w/o a doubt the key characteristic of HipHop:


1). Rapping on the mic was what gave early hiphop the distinction from Funk/Disco musically and how it would become a genre/movement unto itself






2) Breaks/breakbeat dj'ing did not begin with what we now call hiphop: It originated in the Disco world.




RAPAMANIA: GRANDMASTER FLOWERS AND THE MOBILE DJ MOVEMENT by Steven Stancell



Old School Hip Hop Interviews - DJ Plummer | OldSchoolHipHop.Com

and




RAPAMANIA: KOOL HERC VS PETE DJ JONES By Mark Skillz








3. What we now call bboying originated in brooklyn/harlem rocking (which was witnessed at Discos) and the burning dances of gangs like the Black Spades. Not amongst people who identified themselves as HipHop djs












now, connect the dots....

Brooklyn Music: BrooklynBio: The Mystery of Grandmaster Flowers

and



Old School Hip Hop Interviews - DJ Plummer | OldSchoolHipHop.Com
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people keep trying to link the birth of hiphop to herc with beginning of breakbeats and bboys but this has all been proven false

Herc himself said




Herc:




Red Bull Music Academy Daily








4. The term HipHop itself came from these rapping "Disco" dj's


to sum this up:

--There was bboying and break beat djing before herc -----> and with that, there was still no distinct subculture or genre unto itself with those elements apart from Disco/Funk

---Rapping dj's predate the Herc/breakbeats/bboys myth

---Same rapping djs coined the term HipHop and this is where the culture got its name

One last simple question

How old are you?

Cause I was actually alive for Sugar Hill Gang

 

[Ghost Utmost]

@IllmaticDelta

Oh and one more:

What song is more Hip Hop

Rapture by Blondie

Or Mary J Blige .. any song off what's the 411 that has no rap verses in it

Cause Blondie has a recorded rap before almost every other rapper

Since it has Rap and some of Mary Js songs are all singing: Blondie is more Hip Hop right?

 

[Ghost Utmost]

@IllmaticDelta

I promise this is the last one

What's more Hip Hop

The Shook Ones Instrumental

Or 30 min of Daylyt vs Disaster battle rapping with no beat

Since rapping is the main thing in Hip Hop

 

[Cadillac]

This info needs to be shared with the masses

 

[IllmaticDelta]

@IllmaticDelta

Oh and one more:

What song is more Hip Hop

Rapture by Blondie

Or Mary J Blige .. any song off what's the 411 that has no rap verses in it

Cause Blondie has a recorded rap before almost every other rapper

Since it has Rap and some of Mary Js songs are all singing: Blondie is more Hip Hop right?

Rapture is closer to 70's and early 80s HipHop than anything by Mary on 411

for a frame of reference

@IllmaticDelta

I promise this is the last one

What's more Hip Hop

The Shook Ones Instrumental

Or 30 min of Daylyt vs Disaster battle rapping with no beat

Since rapping is the main thing in Hip Hop