"DJ Hollywood and his crowd were the first rapping to the beat, not Herc's crowd" - Melle Mel

[Asicz]

Background. According to Kurtis Blow and Pete DJ Jones, Hollywood was the first rapper in the hip-hop style, making him the "Father" of the Hip Hop style.
en.m.wikipedia.org › wiki › DJ_Hol...
DJ Hollywood - Wikipedia

 

[IllmaticDelta]

break beats were were a funk/disco thing and songs influenced by those genres would have breaks (jazz or rock)




1). Rapping on the mic was what gave early hiphop the distinction from Funk/Disco musically and how it would become a genre/movement unto itself






2) Breaks/breakbeat dj'ing did not begin with what we now call hiphop: It originated in the Disco world.

to add to this:

and

Touches on the relation of HipHop to Disco and how Disco was IN FACT embraced by the crowd that would later become HipHop

this is why many early hiphop guys had "Disco" in their name

helped Flash created the quick mix

one of the first Latin Djs (Caz's right hand man)

and of course

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Disco and Hip-hop weren't really different. Most "Hip-hop" parties had the same tunes as the Disco parties. Except for certain 'Break' records, which were extended for the dancers and emcees.
But don't think Hip-hop parties was a 3/4 hour sessions off Break records.

Also folks really gotta understand what Disco was in the Black communities. It was records that had tempo, and certain swing.

This was a big record in the Black Disco world.

Listening to this, I thought that it should be pointed out that there are breaks that don't need to be cut up/looped because the whole track itself is a break--meaning you don't have to wait for the high point when the vocals drop out and it comes down to the beat for you to "go off"

The song you posted fits that mold and so do these known bboy breaks





and of course

 

[IllmaticDelta]

another old head cosign @truth2you via Grandmixer DST






"no one was rhyming on beat (aka rapping) back then in the so-called hiphop scene; the only people that were rhyming rhythmically back then was the so-called "disco djs" and they (so-called hiphop scene) don't want to give them (so-called disco djs) the credit for it....Dj Hollywood was doing that first"

 

[Jblaze204]

before reading this thread and others in the past about this topic, i had the understanding that Kool Herc was the father of Hip Hop. It looks like the truth is, DJ Hollywood is the father. The easiest way to get this out to the masses would be to insert DJ Hollywood's name whenever Kool Herc gets mentioned. Let people do the research.

 

[Bondye Vodou]

Give MC Pigmeat his props and keep it moving.

 

[truth2you]

another old head cosign @truth2you via Grandmixer DST






"no one was rhyming on beat (aka rapping) back then in the so-called hiphop scene; the only people that were rhyming rhythmically back then was the so-called "disco djs" and they (so-called hiphop scene) don't want to give them (so-called disco djs) the credit for it....Dj Hollywood was doing that first"

OG Hip hop heads need to start telling the truth or just admit they were too young to go into discotheques(70’s word for nightclubs), so they didn’t know that scene

What kills me is why aren’t they trying to learn now that we have the internet?

I seen a tweet with Chuck D dissing people who argue against the hip hop came from Jamaica argument. I guess he believes Kool Herc brought the idea of two turntables to America, but we already have proof that Grandmaster Flowers, and Francis Grasso, we’re using two turntables, and two records, since the late 60’s, early 70’s before Kool Herc!

How can white music experts know this, but black artists we look up to, don’t?

Questlove is another one who got it all wrong, but people still listen to him


He said the name “ski” that rappers used to have meant cocaine but Luvbug starsky said it came from him loving the show “Starsky & Hutch”

he also said when kool herc brought his sound system out with two turntables, people were losing their minds cause they never saw that before? WTF! Who never saw a sound system with two turntables and they were living in NYC, the home of partying and the best sound systems in the world? nikka please!

I want to thank you for waking me up to the truth cause I used to be just as confused as others, but I knew a lot didn’t make sense so when you would refute stuff I would give you a listen, and all the myths just went away cause the truth doesn’t have a million stories just ONE!

peace to you

 

[IllmaticDelta]

OG Hip hop heads need to start telling the truth or just admit they were too young to go into discotheques(70’s word for nightclubs), so they didn’t know that scene

What kills me is why aren’t they trying to learn now that we have the internet?

BINGO! See, the younger generation who couldn't get into those Disco clubs and witness 2 turntables and a mixer along with break beat dj'ing are the ones who think Herc created something new when herc himself learned it from those same Disco clubs

"herc was one of the first dj's in the bronx to borrow technique from manhattan's downtown discos: the use of 2 turntables"

I seen a tweet with Chuck D dissing people who argue against the hip hop came from Jamaica argument. I guess he believes Kool Herc brought the idea of two turntables to America, but we already have proof that Grandmaster Flowers, and Francis Grasso, we’re using two turntables, and two records, since the late 60’s, early 70’s before Kool Herc!

Yeah....that's Chucks pan-africanist stance not allowing him to push back on that west indian hiphop origin narrative

How can white music experts know this, but black artists we look up to, don’t?

Questlove is another one who got it all wrong, but people still listen to him

IMO, it's no use in trying to get the hiphop origin story from people who weren't in the 1970-1977 period. You just end getting hit with ducktales of the KRS variety

He said the name “ski” that rappers used to have meant cocaine but Luvbug starsky said it came from him living the show “Starsky & Hutch”

the rappers that came along in 80s probably used it to refer to coke...Luvbug is an OG from the 70s

he also said when kool herc brought his sound system out with two turntables, people were losing their minds cause they never saw that before? WTF! Who never saw a sound system with two turntables and they were living in NYC, the home of partying and the best sound systems in the world? nikka please!

The one thing about this, is that people never clarify and make distinctions on exactly what borough or specific region of said borough, they're talking about, for example: herc is from the west bronx and mario/kool dee are from the south east bronx. Remember, Herc just copied what he saw and ended up gettiing a similar set up as Kool D



Dj Kool D was a professional club DJ in brooklyn and traveled around with Pete Dj Jones (brooklynite who traveled to the bronx) and Grandmaster Flowers (also a brooklynite) before he moved to the Bronx

.
.
.



From what I gathered mobile jocks, soundsystems and disco clubs weren't really a thing in the Bronx like they were in Queens, Brooklyn and Harlem.



talking about the bronx right here:

" they had to piece together sh1t...they didn't even have real sound systems compared to Queens"



and

the bronx guys openly admit to the queens guys having the soundsystem game on smash lol









for a comparison of soundsytems by Raheim of the Furious 5. He's talking about Brothers Disco (Dj breakout) who were from the North bronx


@2:47... sha rock said they modeled their system after Disco King Marios

this is what he said about the systems he saw:

When I went to the community center where the auditions were , it was actually a battle between Bros Disco (Breakout & Baron) and a group called the Little Bros. from Co - Op City - they were Dj Aaron & Dj Leo .

The little bros were on when I walked into the party , Angel Dust permeated the air ; the walls were sweating because the place was jammed packed. The Little Bros set up was Peavey columns , and it seemed like they were rocking the joint....everybody was enjoying the music that they were playing . Sha Rock & KK were on the stage standing around , and Breakout got on the tables. His sound system was massive. I had never seen a sound system like this before , and the only ones equal at the time were Infinity Machine from Queens , Disco Twins also from Queens , Kool Herc and Disco King Mario. I remember Breakouts tweeters were on two ropes spanning the width of the room, held up by 2 horns on tripods on either side of the room . Breakout was listening to the headphones cueing up a record...he picked up the mic and said "Little Bros - the highs in your eyes" he turned up the music and all you heard were the tweeters . The volume of those alone interfered with the Little Bros system. Then Breakout said "feel the horns" and it sounded like a 30 piece marching band was in the spot. After that he said "feel the bass" and then it was over ...then when Baron got on he handed me a mic and I said some stuff , and they didn't want me to put the mic down. From that night on I was down.

RAHIEM INTERVIEW With JayQuan


.
.
.

I want to thank you for waking me up to the truth cause I used to be just as confused as others, but I knew a lot didn’t make sense so when you would refute stuff I would give you a listen, and all the myths just went away cause the truth doesn’t have a million stories just ONE!

peace to you

No doubt...some kind of way what started (hiphop origins talk) on here, spread and now I see the OG's coming out of the woodworks to correct the history

 

[mcellas]

Give MC Pigmeat his props and keep it moving.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

article in billboard from the late 1970s that I ran across

article on the NYC Disco scene from 1974 I ran across

the interesting part

a dj rapping over hard & funky beats named Eddie in 1974They're talking about one of the father's of syncopated rapping style

 

[King]

@truth2you
@Supa
@tuckdog
@Mr. BROADWAY
@HarlemHottie
@im_sleep
@315
@Cadillac
@old boy
@winterwarz

@8WON6
@MAGARussiaLGBT Crunch
@T'krm
@NoHateLeftBehind
@gabbo

@UpAndComing

@Evamarie

@KingZimbabwe

@Black Lightning
40-50 year old myths/lies finally being booted

I told yall years ago that all the early cats said they never heard any rapping (syncopated to the beat) at Herc's parties and they first heard rapping at the so-called "disco dj's" parties from the likes of Hollywood

.
.
Flash himself said no one at Herc's parties was rapping; they just did freelance talking (Coke La Roc)

.
.
Grandmaster Caz flat out said Dj Hollwood laid the blueprint for rapping

Caz:

"Dj Hollywood was the blueprint for the syncopated (rapping) style"

.
.
.
Interesting riff between Herc and Bambattas camp (Zulu Nation) on the origin of HipHop culture. Who said there was no debate on the origins from the Og's?


Zulu Nation Says DJ Kool Herc Did Not Start Hip Hop And Is Misrepresenting The Culture



http://allhiphop.com/2013/08/20/zul...t-hip-hop-and-is-misrepresenting-the-culture/


A couple of interesting posts from Rahiem of Grandmaster Flash & The Furious 5, who came up in the Herc scene..

"I'm Rahiem of Grandmaster Flash & The Furious 5 and the minister of information of the Zulu nation is a clown and so is ANYONE else if after 40 years of Hip-hop culture and agreeing that DJ Kool Herc is the father of Hip-hop so why would that have changed after 40 years? I used to be in Bronx river when the Zulu nation began and the Zulu nation began in 1977-78 and Kool Herc began in 1973 so do the math and the Zulu nation were still the Black Spades during the "Blackout" of 1977 and shortly afterwards became the Bronx river organization and then the Zulu nation and honestly the people who are considered to be forefathers of the Hip-hop culture actually changed the game by adding to it and Everyone who was truly there you knew who did what and we know who set trends or brought something to the game to change it and Bambaataa and the Zulu nation didn't change the game! Grandmaster Flash Changed the game!!!!! Kool Herc is the genesis of the game and Bambaataa added what? More beats? STOP IT!!!!!!!!"

^^It's well known Herc is before Baambatta and Flash.


Now here is his take on how rapping started...

"Dancers that did a dance called the B-boying or that danced to Boioing music came directly from Kool Herc parties. Kool Herc's emcees didn't rhyme to the beat but they said catchy phrases that were adopted by emcees who expounded on what they were doing after Herc's emcees and then when emcees heard DJ Hollywood is when they began rhyming to the beat!"

Again, confirms everything I've said the whole time. Disco Dj's are the ones who started that syncopated rhyming (rapping) style. Totally different flavor from what Jamaican toasters/deejays were doing like U-Roy and the examples I gave earlier in the thread. Numerous people from the Herc scene acknowledge that there was no rapping in the Herc scene before like 1976 and that all Herc and his boys did was basically freelance shout outs.


.
.
.
KID CREOLE from Furious 5





.
.

From Markskillz,the HipHop historian




The Bronx guys tried to juelz the Harlem guys out of hiphop history by saying they were doing Disco..knowing damn well rapping on the mic starting in Harlem by the cats they described as "disco dj's"

This needs to be stickied, idk how I missed this

Rep on sight @IllmaticDelta

 

[IllmaticDelta]

When we speak of who created "rapping" as we know it, we're talking syncopated to the beat. The typical story was that Herc and Coke brought toasting to NYC via Jamaica and birthed hiphop. This is why people always tried to link rapping to the likes of U Roy





and jamaica via Herc and Coke (who they thought was Jamaican but is actually of North Carolinian heritage)




.
.
.

Spoiler

the counter argument to the Herc myth was that Hollywood and the so-called "disco rappers" were the ones who pioneered modern rapping (syncopated to the beat) w/ 2 turntables and mixer

and


A bit more on the differences between the Disco Dj's and the Herc scenes and how they impacted the formation of HipHop

From the article below:

"In contrast to Herc's pulled-ups and needle drops, disco dj's favored smooth segues from track to track. They also tended to rap in a more mellifluous style, relating directly, if casually, to the steady beats of the music they were playing, and stringing together long verse like presentations of their own set of stock phrases rather than the freer, more fragmented interjections of the Herculords and their streetwise colleagues. The next generation of hiphop Dj's and Mc's would synthesize these distinct strands, refining (if not outright commercializing) "street" style while bringing in a harder edge to the smooth surfaces of club rap and disco djing."

uh oh, Uroy finally dropping a truth bomb




I told yall years ago Louis Jordan had a big influence in Jamaica and on HipHop!

 

[Art Barr]

Real bboys know this.
I have posted on this for over a quarter century in this community.
Still not forgiving the sellout bullshyt hollywood was on.
to eventually move the culture to the new school way of thought.

Ol school was phased out culturally for a reason.



Art Barr

 

[Stir Fry]

Give MC Pigmeat his props and keep it moving.

This is hard lol

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Interesting riff between Herc and Bambattas camp (Zulu Nation) on the origin of HipHop culture. Who said there was no debate on the origins from the Og's?


Zulu Nation Says DJ Kool Herc Did Not Start Hip Hop And Is Misrepresenting The Culture



Zulu Nation Says DJ Kool Herc Did Not Start Hip Hop And Is Misrepresenting The Culture


A couple of interesting posts from Rahiem of Grandmaster Flash & The Furious 5, who came up in the Herc scene..

"I'm Rahiem of Grandmaster Flash & The Furious 5 and the minister of information of the Zulu nation is a clown and so is ANYONE else if after 40 years of Hip-hop culture and agreeing that DJ Kool Herc is the father of Hip-hop so why would that have changed after 40 years? I used to be in Bronx river when the Zulu nation began and the Zulu nation began in 1977-78 and Kool Herc began in 1973 so do the math and the Zulu nation were still the Black Spades during the "Blackout" of 1977 and shortly afterwards became the Bronx river organization and then the Zulu nation and honestly the people who are considered to be forefathers of the Hip-hop culture actually changed the game by adding to it and Everyone who was truly there you knew who did what and we know who set trends or brought something to the game to change it and Bambaataa and the Zulu nation didn't change the game! Grandmaster Flash Changed the game!!!!! Kool Herc is the genesis of the game and Bambaataa added what? More beats? STOP IT!!!!!!!!"

^^It's well known Herc is before Baambatta and Flash.


Now here is his take on how rapping started...

"Dancers that did a dance called the B-boying or that danced to Boioing music came directly from Kool Herc parties. Kool Herc's emcees didn't rhyme to the beat but they said catchy phrases that were adopted by emcees who expounded on what they were doing after Herc's emcees and then when emcees heard DJ Hollywood is when they began rhyming to the beat!"

Again, confirms everything I've said the whole time. Disco Dj's are the ones who started that syncopated rhyming (rapping) style. Totally different flavor from what Jamaican toasters/deejays were doing like U-Roy and the examples I gave earlier in the thread. Numerous people from the Herc scene acknowledge that there was no rapping in the Herc scene before like 1976 and that all Herc and his boys did was basically freelance shout outs.


.
.

Rahiem on video, confirming that "rapping" (rapping is syncopation on/to a beat) DID NOT come from Coke La Rock (ADOS) or anything "Herc/Jamaican" related. He says Coke La Rock was doing unsyncopated/free lanced slick talk on the mic in the "Toast" style of like the Last Poets and that's how Melle Mel first sounded. He says after Flash took Melle Mel/Cowboy/Kid Creole to Club 371 (this was the stomping grounds for Dj Hollywood and Eddie Cheeba, both of these guys were part of Pete Dj Jones' circle. He's the same one who taught Disco djing foundations to Flash, that would lead to the HipHop quick mix style) they saw/heard Dj Hollywood and then they switched their style up to the syncopated style, that we now know today as "Rapping"




For context, Herc describing what Coke used to do on the mic



Caz' observation of Coke lines up with what Raheim said about him




.
.
.
Even more corroboration that Hollywood birthed this style:

Grandmixer DST flat out says that style we now known as "rapping" today, came from Dj Hollwood. He says no one in Herc scene was flowing on beat with verses until they heard Hollywood



Caz says Hollywood is/was the blueprint that he/melle mel (what would become the modern rapper) followed




.

.
.

In summary, Kurtis Blow says without question, what we now know as the "Rapper" was birthed by Dj Hollywood. In the clip below they put Hollywood in the proper historical context of HipHop and they asked him what he was influenced by (Pigmeat Markham is mentioned)