"DJ Hollywood and his crowd were the first rapping to the beat, not Herc's crowd" - Melle Mel

[Ghost Utmost]

Rapping is not the beginning of Hip Hop

The DJ is the first

Breaking of course

Even Graf comes before rapping

So "who was rapping first" is not the question.

Here's why a Disco DJ can't be the first Hip Hop DJ

Cause Disco. Disco is one style. Hip Hop is another. That's why there's different words to name them and all that junk

Whoever took break beats and looped them on 2 turntables first... that's the inventor of Hip Hop

Blondie did a rap early on.. It certainly wasn't Hip Hop

 

[UserNameless]

Harlem World stand the fukk up please

 

[GoAggieGo.]

Thanks for this @IllmaticDelta

You truly are a scholar; let alone a Coli scholar. You can back up any claim you make. That’s why I be calling you into certain threads lol

 

[360dagod]

Went to a dj Hollywood party either at salsa con fuego or some spot by 149th and grand concourse a few years back...

Definitely a legend

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Rapping is not the beginning of Hip Hop

funk/disco breaks are the beginning of HipHop musically but HipHip doesn't become a genre unto itself w/o Rapping....If you take the rapping out early HipHop, it's 100% funk and disco

The DJ is the first

yes and no; see above

Breaking of course

rapping on breaks was around before anything Herc related

Even Graf comes before rapping

From Philly and not technically a part of HipHop

So "who was rapping first" is not the question.

there is no HipHop w/o the rapper; the scene jams would have died in the 1970s if the rapper wasn't born

Here's why a Disco DJ can't be the first Hip Hop DJ

They are not disco dj's; this is a term that was applied later

Cause Disco. Disco is one style. Hip Hop is another. That's why there's different words to name them and all that junk

see above and what we call disco and the music of early hiphop were one in the same

Whoever took break beats and looped them on 2 turntables first... that's the inventor of Hip Hop

the people that are getting called disco dj's did this first!






Pete Dj Jones: "One of the first rapping dj's (KC The Prince Of Soul), I stole him from Flowers"

Do you remember the kinds of records you were playing in that early ’70s period?

I was playing most of the hits, like James Brown… I think what created hip-hop was the multi-ethnic music in the New York area. Every DJ had an MC.

Did you have one?

Yeah, KC The Prince Of Soul. I stole him from Flowers. He started MCing with me around 1971, then I had JD The Disco Prince, then I had Lovebug Starski.


Lovebug Starski - You've Gotta Believe
When did you start using MCs?

I started MCing myself, I used to like talking over the music. You got guys like Kool Herc and Bambaataa that claimed they started hip-hop, they gotta remember that hip-hop emerged from R&B. I had a lot of rappers say they was influenced by me. These rappers started emerging about 1975 and 1976.

https://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2019/01/pete-dj-jones-interview

More and more DJs were incorporating emcees into their sets; that is, having someone on the microphone shouting out the DJ and keeping the party moving. KC Prince of Soul, Grandmaster Flowers’ emcee, was the first to talk over a record—imitating popular radio DJ Hank Spann of WWRL. Soon after, Harlem’s DJ Hollywood began talking over his mixes and became more famous for his wordplay than for his deejaying. Hollywood’s street fame led to him selling copies of his deejay sets around the way at barbershops and bodegas. On the strength of their party-friendly approach, Eddie Cheeba and DJ Hollywood became the house DJs at Harlem’s Club 371.

A Toast to Grandmaster Flash: Hip-hop Pioneer, Turntable Wizard and Superhero DJ

Blondie did a rap early on.. It certainly wasn't Hip Hop

that was way after rap/hiphop was established and punkers and hiphopers rocked together closer to the 1980s

 

[BmoreGorilla]

nikkas was rapping and saying nikka and talking about shyt like getting fukked up in the 60’s

5:00 minute mark

That sounds like the shyt we used to do before Pop Warner games

 

[New Jeruzalem Journalist]

When we speak of who created "rapping" as we know it, we're talking syncopated to the beat. The typical story was that Herc and Coke brought toasting to NYC via Jamaica and birthed hiphop. This is why people always tried to link rapping to the likes of U Roy





and jamaica via Herc and Coke (who they thought was Jamaican but is actually of North Carolinian heritage)




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the counter argument to the Herc myth was that Hollywood and the so-called "disco rappers" were the ones who pioneered modern rapping (syncopated to the beat) w/ 2 turntables and mixer

and


A bit more on the differences between the Disco Dj's and the Herc scenes and how they impacted the formation of HipHop

From the article below:

"In contrast to Herc's pulled-ups and needle drops, disco dj's favored smooth segues from track to track. They also tended to rap in a more mellifluous style, relating directly, if casually, to the steady beats of the music they were playing, and stringing together long verse like presentations of their own set of stock phrases rather than the freer, more fragmented interjections of the Herculords and their streetwise colleagues. The next generation of hiphop Dj's and Mc's would synthesize these distinct strands, refining (if not outright commercializing) "street" style while bringing in a harder edge to the smooth surfaces of club rap and disco djing."

Like I said, appreciate the info and digging, but it kinda feels like you're splitting hairs here my man. If this info is more about illuminating DJ Hollywood and removing some of the stain off his name that may have been unfairly dumped on it for so many years, I can see why that's important info to be known. I just don't see how that somehow removes Coke and Herc from the equation and lineage/growth of rapping, let alone hip-hop. I've never come across anything claiming differently, including everything you've posted so far. Maybe I'm just missing your greater point. You quoted Caz in that Vlad interview as saying they based what they did off Hollywood, but right before that he credits Coke as "the first rapper".

 

[BmoreGorilla]

Rapping is not the beginning of Hip Hop

The DJ is the first

Breaking of course

Even Graf comes before rapping

So "who was rapping first" is not the question.

Here's why a Disco DJ can't be the first Hip Hop DJ

Cause Disco. Disco is one style. Hip Hop is another. That's why there's different words to name them and all that junk

Whoever took break beats and looped them on 2 turntables first... that's the inventor of Hip Hop

Blondie did a rap early on.. It certainly wasn't Hip Hop

You right to an extent but there would be no hip hop DJs without disco. They just weren’t old enough to get into the clubs so they went for self. A lot of disco songs were long af and had minimal singing for a reason

 

[BmoreGorilla]

The funny thing is Hollywood ended up hating hip hop. But I think the one person who did the most for hip hop that gets the least credit is Marley Marl. His contribution to beat making almost singlehandedly turned hip hop into the genre we know it as

 

[KillerB88]

you cared enough to post in the thread

Clown. The point of posting was to point out that it's the wrong discussion to have. It's more of what we always do. Someone has to be elevated as a backhand way of diminishing someone else. Hip Hop didn't spontaneously emerge. Elements of it are present in our music decades prior. It has a multitude of contributors. We should talk about them and leave the conversation at that.

 

[Biscayne]

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40-50 year old myths/lies finally being booted

I told yall years ago that all the early cats said they never heard any rapping (syncopated to the beat) at Herc's parties and they first heard rapping at the so-called "disco dj's" parties from the likes of Hollywood

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Flash himself said no one at Herc's parties was rapping; they just did freelance talking (Coke La Roc)

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Grandmaster Caz flat out said Dj Hollwood laid the blueprint for rapping

Caz:

"Dj Hollywood was the blueprint for the syncopated (rapping) style"

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Interesting riff between Herc and Bambattas camp (Zulu Nation) on the origin of HipHop culture. Who said there was no debate on the origins from the Og's?


Zulu Nation Says DJ Kool Herc Did Not Start Hip Hop And Is Misrepresenting The Culture



http://allhiphop.com/2013/08/20/zul...t-hip-hop-and-is-misrepresenting-the-culture/


A couple of interesting posts from Rahiem of Grandmaster Flash & The Furious 5, who came up in the Herc scene..

"I'm Rahiem of Grandmaster Flash & The Furious 5 and the minister of information of the Zulu nation is a clown and so is ANYONE else if after 40 years of Hip-hop culture and agreeing that DJ Kool Herc is the father of Hip-hop so why would that have changed after 40 years? I used to be in Bronx river when the Zulu nation began and the Zulu nation began in 1977-78 and Kool Herc began in 1973 so do the math and the Zulu nation were still the Black Spades during the "Blackout" of 1977 and shortly afterwards became the Bronx river organization and then the Zulu nation and honestly the people who are considered to be forefathers of the Hip-hop culture actually changed the game by adding to it and Everyone who was truly there you knew who did what and we know who set trends or brought something to the game to change it and Bambaataa and the Zulu nation didn't change the game! Grandmaster Flash Changed the game!!!!! Kool Herc is the genesis of the game and Bambaataa added what? More beats? STOP IT!!!!!!!!"

^^It's well known Herc is before Baambatta and Flash.


Now here is his take on how rapping started...

"Dancers that did a dance called the B-boying or that danced to Boioing music came directly from Kool Herc parties. Kool Herc's emcees didn't rhyme to the beat but they said catchy phrases that were adopted by emcees who expounded on what they were doing after Herc's emcees and then when emcees heard DJ Hollywood is when they began rhyming to the beat!"

Again, confirms everything I've said the whole time. Disco Dj's are the ones who started that syncopated rhyming (rapping) style. Totally different flavor from what Jamaican toasters/deejays were doing like U-Roy and the examples I gave earlier in the thread. Numerous people from the Herc scene acknowledge that there was no rapping in the Herc scene before like 1976 and that all Herc and his boys did was basically freelance shout outs.


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KID CREOLE from Furious 5





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From Markskillz,the HipHop historian




The Bronx guys tried to juelz the Harlem guys out of hiphop history by saying they were doing Disco..knowing damn well rapping on the mic starting in Harlem by the cats they described as "disco dj's"

So much knowledge and history in one post. Respect.

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

You right to an extent but there would be no hip hop DJs without disco. They just weren’t old enough to get into the clubs so they went for self. A lot of disco songs were long af and had minimal singing for a reason

Not only was the age thing a problem, but the dress codes as well. Back then, discos were catering to upscale, rich, 'White' people and they enforced codes that stopped people from coming in who weren't 'dressed-up'. Problem was, you couldn't 'work the floor' with patent-leather shoes and polyester suits.​

The whole reason hip-hop started was as a reaction against disco culture.

Also, from what I understand, the first DJ to scratch/cut records was Grandmaster Flowers, not Kool Herc.​

 

[IllmaticDelta]

You right to an extent but there would be no hip hop DJs without disco. They just weren’t old enough to get into the clubs so they went for self. A lot of disco songs were long af and had minimal singing for a reason

before the music was called "Disco" it was simply danceable funk/soul.... the music they later called Disco is one of the main foundations for the HipHop and bboy culture that would follow

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Used to LOVE disco.........until 'White' people ruined it. Oversaturated the market with watered-down, barely danceable, soulless bullshyt just to make money. I remember mom taking me and my little brother to see Saturday Night Fever 'cause the Bee Gees' songs were EVERYWHERE. Couldn't go to a cookout/party, listen to the radio, or watch TV without hearing them.​

When they had the dance battles, all three of us busted out laughing 'cause those dancers were stiff as HELL compared to what we saw on Soul Train and IRL.​

 

[HarlemHottie]

Great research my g

But now we gotta decide whether to give the title to Harlem or the South Bronx???

I want no parts of that fam. None. Zero. Nada.

You not from here, so you might not know, but thats why we say "uptown".

Everytime you hear that term, the implication is Harlem plus the bronx. Otherwise, they just say one or the other.