Dirk says Lebron passes MJ when he becomes the all-time scorer

[SunZoo]

Cheese eyes been getting nods over Kareem despite not having the winning the longevity argument or having the scoring title, why does that change with Lebron, who has less chips, less MVP's, didn't win at every level of competitive baskeball and not as dominant?

If that couldn't get Cap over the hump, it shouldn't for Lebron either, but it's all about narrative.

 

[tuckgod]

he's out here tryna boost his own resume he ain't slick

 

[tuckgod]

It’ll be tough for anyone to break Bron record cuz dude came out of high school. Unless the league go back to that nobody will play that long at that level. But he played longer and accomplished less than MJ. MJ only cared about winning. Where as it’s clear Lebron wants to be looked at as the GOAT.

He lost his ability to be considered GOAT a decade ago.

He’s a bytch.

Steph is over him.

 

[Kings County]

boy stop...



This is the only argument for Mike that makes any sense. It's not one I agree with, but it's a logical one, if you go down the list of GOAT candidates---->Bron, Kareem, Kobe, Magic, Bird, Wilt, whoever--->Mike is the one you could never say he "choked a series"...

mj def choked a series and scottie saved him

 

[Kings County]

Mike did that in 11 healthy seasons and the chasm between them is still there. Every time Lebron does anything, its about "he's going to pass Mike", "he's going to eclispse Jordan".

If Lebron isn't winning Championships, MVP's and Finals MVP's, I don't wanna hear it. The bar is set too low for this dude.

bron get 2 more rings and i think the conversation has a little more merit
dont think he gets 2 more rings with this team constructed like this

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Cheese eyes been getting nods over Kareem despite not having the scoring record, why does that change with Lebron, who has less chips, less MVP's, didn't win at every level of competitive baskeball and not as dominant?

If that couldn't get Cap over the hump, it shouldn't for Lebron either, but it's all about narrative.

That's more to do with the fact that GOAT talks weren't in rotation like that when Cap was playing, well, they were happening on a much smaller scale.

MJ revived the league, brought it into modern times, and was the sport's first global superstar. It's only natural that he didn't need to break the scoring record to have folks proclaiming him as the greatest. He didn't need to break any record. The basketball public created the bar based on his accomplishments. That's why you hardly ever hear about the scoring record in these discussions; it's more or less centered around what MJ did and how others measure up to him. It's why you'll never get any objective discourse around this matter because that mindset has already been woven into the fabric of the NBA long ago.

You'd have an easier time trying to convince Orthodox Jews that God doesn't exist than you will trying to argue against the perception of MJ.

 

[Ozymandeas]

Mike did that in 11 healthy seasons and the chasm between them is still there. Every time Lebron does anything, its about "he's going to pass Mike", "he's going to eclispse Jordan".

If Lebron isn't winning Championships, MVP's and Finals MVP's, I don't wanna hear it. The bar is set too low for this dude.

Its sad. Can't wait for this clown ass nikka to retire.

The map was laid out for him. Montana was just like Jordan. Perfect in his championship appearances. Helped to build his league like Jordan. Apart of a dominant franchise/dynasty. Had the same mystique attached to him. Brady didn't bytch and moan about it. Went to work. Brady wasn't perfect like Montana, as he lost multiple times but, the sheer number of Superbowls he won made Montana irrelevant. You can't argue four rings to seven. That's all LeBron had to do. Get to seven rings. Even six would have made it a debate. Instead he tries to bytch and moan his way into being the GOAT It don't work that way. You have to end the conversation the same way Tom Brady ended the conversation. That's it. There's no Plan B here

 

[Professor Emeritus]

But isn’t Jordan a much more efficient basketball player than LeBron?

Most of the arguments are played out, but this was weird so I'll respond to it.

MJ's career eFG% was 51%. In playoffs it fell to 50%.
LeBron's career eFG% is 55%. In playoffs it fell to 54%.

MJ's career assist-to-turnover ratio is 1.96 to 1. In playoffs it fell to 1.84 to 1.
LeBron's career assist-to-turnover ratio is 2.09 to 1. In playoffs it fell to 1.95 to 1.


And, as the other poster already pointed out, Bron did it against better competition and had to play his entire career in the zone era which MJ himself said would have had a significant negative impact on his game and would have prevented him from having the career that he had.

So I have no clue where MJ being "more efficient" would come from. The only efficiency advantage he'd have over Bron is on free throws (83% to 74%).

 

[SunZoo]

That's more to do with the fact that GOAT talks weren't in rotation like that when Cap was playing, well, they were happening on a much smaller scale.

MJ revived the league, brought it into modern times, and was the sport's first global superstar. It's only natural that he didn't need to break the scoring record to have folks proclaiming him as the greatest. He didn't need to break any record. The basketball public created the bar based on his accomplishments. That's why you hardly ever hear about the scoring record in these discussions; it's more or less centered around what MJ did and how others measure up to him. It's why you'll never get any objective discourse around this matter because that mindset has already been woven into the fabric of the NBA long ago.

You'd have an easier time trying to convince Orthodox Jews that God doesn't exist than you will trying to argue against the perception of MJ.

I can dig that, also consider that Kareem was kind of a dikk

So perception also plays a role in downplaying his legacy, not only in the context of MJ but Lebron too, I mean it's his record that he's currently chasing and people barely talk about him.

boy stop...



This is the only argument for Mike that makes any sense. It's not one I agree with, but it's a logical one, if you go down the list of GOAT candidates---->Bron, Kareem, Kobe, Magic, Bird, Wilt, whoever--->Mike is the one you could never say he "choked a series"...

These don't make "sense"?

Outside of longevity, that's a wash to me. So I supposed just like with him and Kareem, it's gonna come down to perception. Mike will lose the argument for being sort of a scumbag before basketball reasons lol

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Mike did that in 11 healthy seasons and the chasm between them is still there. Every time Lebron does anything, its about "he's going to pass Mike", "he's going to eclispse Jordan".

If Lebron isn't winning Championships, MVP's and Finals MVP's, I don't wanna hear it. The bar is set too low for this dude.

You're acting like they won those awards playing against each other. They had completely different competition and completely different teams playing in different eras. Place 2006-2018 Bron in the late 80s and 90s without MJ there and voter fatigue might be the only thing that keeps him from 10-12 MVP awards. And only God knows how many titles, depending on how his team is constructed of course.

When MJ retired the first time, there was an "entire Hall of Fame career" separating Bill Russell's accomplishments from his. Russell had 8 more titles, would have had 3-4 more Finals MVPs if they had the award back then, 1 more MVP, would have had 7-8 more DPOY if they had the award. And yet no one ever was putting Russell over MJ at that point. People know that team awards and voting trophies against completely different comp in different eras don't define your career by themselves.




And we all remember that you already got exposed as either being the weirdo behind the mentally ill "Nobody Touches Jordan" website, or at best copy-pasting all your arguments directly off of him. Just like that guy, you get caught straight lying and distorting reality over and over when it comes to Jordan.

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/the-gap-between-mj-and-lebron-is-a-hof-career.903440/page-9#post-45199049

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/5-of-the-best-statistical-individual-playoff-series-displays-of-the-last-40-years.793749/page-3#post-38405220

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/5-of-the-best-statistical-individual-playoff-series-displays-of-the-last-40-years.793749/page-3#post-38405310

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/what-is-the-exact-proof-that-lebron-is-a-better-all-round-player-than-jordan-stats-say-otherwise.781728/page-8#post-37779252

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/what-is-the-exact-proof-that-lebron-is-a-better-all-round-player-than-jordan-stats-say-otherwise.781728/page-9#post-37780214

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/what-is-the-exact-proof-that-lebron-is-a-better-all-round-player-than-jordan-stats-say-otherwise.781728/page-10#post-37781342

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/what-is-the-exact-proof-that-lebron-is-a-better-all-round-player-than-jordan-stats-say-otherwise.781728/page-12#post-37782154

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/what-is-the-exact-proof-that-lebron-is-a-better-all-round-player-than-jordan-stats-say-otherwise.781728/page-12#post-37782415

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/what-is-the-exact-proof-that-lebron-is-a-better-all-round-player-than-jordan-stats-say-otherwise.781728/page-12#post-37787867

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/will-ad-get-his-first-mvp-lakers.764630/page-4#post-36812519

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/ja-says-he-would-cook-mj.925489/page-8#post-46417777

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/paxon-game-winner-93-kerr-game-winner-97-ray-allen-game-winner-13-kyrie-game-winner-16.776071/page-3#post-37463465

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/how-did-young-mike-get-to-the-basket-with-such-ease.639808/page-18#post-29977120

Dysfunction is wild.

 

[Roland Coltrane]

JJ Barea officially becomes the greatest defensive player of all time

 

[Roland Coltrane]

he already has imo but the “lack” of chips/winning record in the finals in comparison to MJ is all folks can cling on to at this point

make up desperate lies brehs

 

[Supa]

Mike did that in 11 healthy seasons and the chasm between them is still there. Every time Lebron does anything, its about "he's going to pass Mike", "he's going to eclispse Jordan".

If Lebron isn't winning Championships, MVP's and Finals MVP's, I don't wanna hear it. The bar is set too low for this dude.

These Bron stans never want to address this chasm in accomplishments.

Not to mention LeBron putting up points on a sub .500 team that isn't even the making the playoffs

He's just stat padding to pass Kareem

 

[Roland Coltrane]

No he doesn't. I swear MJ's rep as a defender is solely based off of what he did from '84-90' because he wasn't even his own team's best or primary defender [for the other team's best offensive perimeter player] afterwards.

Bron was MUCH more versatile while still being elite at defending multiple positions. MJ having a DPOY doesn't negate that.

live in another reality in the multiverse and still be wrong brehs

 

[Roland Coltrane]

I agree that he wouldn't have a 2011, but at the same time, I don't think he would've had a 2016 because Jordan just wasn't as good at the overall game of basketball as LeBron is.

He didn't have the playmaking ability, nor did he have the defensive IQ and switchability that Bron had.

strong username to post correlation