Dinesh D'Souza on Black failure

[Real N Quotes]

Very interesting.

Entrepreneurial associations and rotating credit systems. We desperately need capital in the black community. It seems like immigrants always manage to find the money and resources to start businesses. And Half of them can't even speak english well.

A lot of the only capital available to us comes from the government through jobs and welfare or drug money. We need a serious Black Business Association that will also act as a lender, it can pool savings from members and lend it out to newer unestablished members.

Micro-financing may or may not work. A lot of it has to do with responsibility. It is possible that people will use the money for other things.

 

[WhiteDawg3000]

subs

 

[Northern Son]

Outside of the stones throw away impoverished and uneducated Mexicans that can cross the border easier than others, I always laugh at the immigrant comparison to black Americans.

My pops who is NIgerian was educated in one of the most prestigious schools in the country. He doesn't represent the garden variety Nigerian. Yet he's indicative of all Nigerians (false) and should be aligned and weighed against the broad spectrum of African Americans here.

That makes no sense. I have a couple of African American friends who are living outside of the United States. One works for Toshiba, another is a teacher in Japan and one owns a liquor company in Ireland. Do you think THEY represent the average African American? Second of all, they outpace most of the locals in the countries they've moved to.

Seriously...it makes no sense comparing the best another country has to offer that makes it here to the lower tiers of society that already are here.

Exactly. Not to mention those same Nigerians can't find employment in spite of their educational attainment. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, black immigrants from Africa are the most educated immigrants yet the least employed.

http://www.bet.com/news/national/2012/03/20/survey-nigerians-most-educated-in-the-u-s.html

Couldn't be racism could it ?

The immigrant argument is some of the worst rhetoric ever spewed. That Indian really should get his ass kicked. That video was truly disgusting.

 

[theworldismine13]

Exactly. Not to mention those same Nigerians can't find employment in spite of their educational attainment. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, black immigrants from Africa are the most educated immigrants yet the least employed.

Survey: Nigerians Most Educated in the U.S. | News | BET

Couldn't be racism could it ?

The immigrant argument is some of the worst rhetoric ever spewed. That Indian really should get his ass kicked. That video was truly disgusting.

black foreign born and nigerian are not the same thing, nigerians are a subset of that group which includes people from caribbean and other african countries, and not all those people have college degrees

this is the actual Blacks have highest unemployment among foreign-born workers | Economic Policy Institute

At 12.4%, black immigrants had the highest unemployment rate among foreign-born workers in 2010. In comparison, the unemployment rate was slightly lower for Hispanic immigrants (11.3%) and significantly lower for white (7.4%) and Asian immigrants (7.3%).

so basically black foreign born have about the same employment rate as hispanics which in turn is lower than african americans which is around 16%

so that link doesnt support the statement that nigerians with educational attainment cant find employment, it supports the statement that foreign born blacks have lower unemployment than african americans

 

[Northern Son]

black foreign born and nigerian are not the same thing, nigerians are a subset of that group which includes people from caribbean and other african countries, and not all those people have college degrees

this is the actual Blacks have highest unemployment among foreign-born workers | Economic Policy Institute

so basically black foreign born have about the same employment rate as hispanics which in turn is lower than african americans which is around 16%

so that link doesnt support the statement that nigerians with educational attainment cant find employment, it supports the statement that foreign born blacks have lower unemployment than african americans

No, black immigrants have significantly higher unemployment than white and Asian foreign born workers. It's right there in your quote. It's not only Nigerians but Africans in general who excel in educational attainment yet we see stats like this. To deny racism as a factor is exceedingly naive.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/22/AR2008102201209.html

Although African immigrants are more likely to hold high-skilled jobs than Latin Americans, they have the highest unemployment rates of all foreign-born groups. By contrast, employment patterns of well-educated Europeans are virtually indistinguishable from their U.S.-born counterparts, regardless of how long they have lived in the United States. Asian immigrants educated abroad do only slightly worse.

Michael Fix, a co-author of the study, said discrimination against Latinos and Africans might affect how they do in the job market, compared with Europeans and Asians. But he said much of the gap can be explained by the language skills and immigration circumstances common to people from each region.

For instance, highly skilled immigrants who speak only limited English are twice as likely to work in an unskilled job as those who are proficient in English. And 44 percent of Latin Americans educated at foreign colleges speak English poorly or not at all, compared with 32 percent of Europeans and 23 percent of Asians.

Africans have the best language skills of any group. Only 15 percent speak English poorly or not at all. But it appears that this advantage is swamped by a disadvantage: Only 10 percent of the Africans are sponsored for entry by employers. By comparison, 42 percent are sponsored by family members, and almost a third are admitted through a government lottery program. Immigrants entering on such visas often lack the professional networks needed to find a job in their field.

The last sentence does provide some reason for the lack of employment but discrimination is real.

 

[theworldismine13]

No, black immigrants have significantly higher unemployment than white and Asian foreign born workers. It's right there in your quote. It's not only Nigerians but Africans in general who excel in educational attainment yet we see stats like this. To deny racism as a factor is exceedingly naive.

i wasnt saying africans arent discriminated against

you said that highly educated nigerians have trouble finding jobs and im pointing out your link doesnt support that statement

but overall you arent really getting what dinesh was saying, it wasnt saying that racism isnt a factor, its saying that blacks can do better becuase racism doesnt explain why blacks are so far behind

if foreign born blacks have 12% unemployment and native blacks have 16, what explains that difference?

now i would agree that both group have different histories and i dont think the difference should be used to insult people but aside from that black people can learn from foreign born blacks, from hispanics, from asians and from white people, that is what dinesh was saying by bringing up immigrants and i agree with it

the other issue is that complaining about racism is not an economic plan, there will always be discrimination so a real economic plan would require us to develop our own economies, but if we think workplace discrimination is key to economic development i would say that is not a real economic plan, we as black people cannot have an economic plan that says we will only develop when white people stop being racist and this nation is perfect, i dont find that acceptable

so that is another reason i think its acceptable to compare what we are doing to immigrants, we have to compare what we do to what other people do to get ideas and what economic plan we can make and what changes we can make ourselves without having to go through white people

The last sentence does provide some reason for the lack of employment but discrimination is real.

i dont know what you are trying to show with that last link, sure foreigners have a hard time.... so what? welcome to america, do they need a hug?

 

[Northern Son]

i wasnt saying africans arent discriminated against

you said that highly educated nigerians have trouble finding jobs and im pointing out your link doesnt support that statement

but overall you arent really getting what dinesh was saying, it wasnt saying that racism isnt a factor, its saying that blacks can do better becuase racism doesnt explain why blacks are so far behind

if foreign born blacks have 12% unemployment and native blacks have 16, what explains that difference?

Their communities, DRUGS, schools, gun violence. Things forein blacks don't experience. Painfully obvious stuff.

now i would agree that both group have different histories and i dont think the difference should be used to insult people but aside from that black people can learn from foreign born blacks, from hispanics, from asians and from white people, that is what dinesh was saying by bringing up immigrants and i agree with it

Learn what exactly? How to not be born in a hood with a shytty school, drugs, crooked cops and violence?

the other issue is that complaining about racism is not an economic plan, there will always be discrimination so a real economic plan would require us to develop our own economies, but if we think workplace discrimination is key to economic development i would say that is not a real economic plan,

I don't know anyone that's been saying that. We're just acknowledging racism and condemning D'Souza for positing a false and dangerous idea that it's not real. No one is complaining about discrimination is a panacea for the black community, we know that building black businesses is key. It's just important to be aware that the aforementioned barriers are real.

we as black people cannot have an economic plan that says we will only develop when white people stop being racist and this nation is perfect, i dont find that acceptable

Agreed

i dont know what you are trying to show with that last link, sure foreigners have a hard time.... so what? welcome to america, do they need a hug?

Did you even read? These "foreigner" problems are coincidentally an issue of BLACK and (and Hispanic) immigrants and not whites and Asians. I'm saying that being black is indeed a barrier in America whether you're educated or not. That's the whole point of this thread - putting to rest D'Souza's idea that racism isn't real and all you have to do is work hard then you'll be as accepted as a white man. It's clearly not that easy.

I totally agree that you can't let discrimination deter you from community building and personal success but the point is that it's not some made up excuse.

 

[theworldismine13]

Their communities, DRUGS, schools, gun violence. Things forein blacks don't experience. Painfully obvious stuff.

yeah but if a community is black, the drugs are being sold by black people, the schools are being run by black people and the gun violence is being committed by blacks, then how dont black people have the responsibility of fixing that?

Learn what exactly? How to not be born in a hood with a shytty school, drugs, crooked cops and violence?

learn how to create prosperous neighborhoods, with good schools, no drugs and decent cops

are you waiting for white people to do this for us?

I don't know anyone that's been saying that. We're just acknowledging racism and condemning D'Souza for positing a false and dangerous idea that it's not real. No one is complaining about discrimination is a panacea for the black community, we know that building black businesses is key. It's just important to be aware that the aforementioned barriers are real.

dinesh did acknowledge discrimination, did you actually watch the video?

Did you even read? These "foreigner" problems are coincidentally an issue of BLACK and (and Hispanic) immigrants and not whites and Asians. I'm saying that being black is indeed a barrier in America whether you're educated or not. That's the whole point of this thread - putting to rest D'Souza's idea that racism isn't real and all you have to do is work hard then you'll be as accepted as a white man. It's clearly not that easy.

I totally agree that you can't let discrimination deter you from community building and personal success but the point is that it's not some made up excuse.

so again, yes there is a discrimination, do you want me to give them a hug?

dinesh didnt say that racism isnt real, he is saying that racism doesnt explain why black people are so far behind almost every group and part of the explanation is the culture that has developed through years of slavery and discrimination and even if you reduce discrimination blacks would still be behind if we still have a culture that doesnt promote education and doesnt have capitalist customs

 

[emoney]

what do you think that disconnect is ? In others words what allows a immigrant from Ghana to come here and prosper and a AA to struggle?

I'll answer this as I also have Ghanaian heritage.

LACK OF A COMMUNITY!

There is a lack of a community because African-Americans have not properly defined themselves. There is no common identity and that prevents them from working together and in their own self-interest.

 

[Ice Water]

I don't think the comparison between immigrants and American black people are valid at all. They are two totaly different situations and to compare the two I implies that black culture purposely squanders opportunity in favor of staying impoverished.

First off immigrants that move here and end up in the same poor neighborhoods and schools as the poor black people, have all the same cultural and economic problems as black people. It's not black culture it's poor culture. The environment a person is raised in shapes them.

Second those immigrants that do move here and find success were usualy way better off in their country of origin, than poor black people here. They are already educated with no debt, and good credit. People coming from places like India or the Middle East, Asia, etc. if they had enough money for a plane ticket, they had way more money than the average poor African American family. These people come here with money and a support system, and they don't have to fight the same battles with institutionalized racism.

It's a very invalid comparison to try to use successful immigrants as proof that black Americans aren't trying hard enough.

I'm sorry but you gotta be kiddin me bro. Immigrants coming to this country are not set up like that, if they are balling like that in their country why come here? Immigrants come here to take advantage of education, and a strong economy, and opportunity.

Indians come here and shack up 2, 3 families in a house, wearing ragged clothes, but they got a goal in mind. They know in India, it's far worse...they bussin they arse puttin they kids through school.

My family came here from Haiti, bruh...the bottom of the bottom... We lived side by side with Blacks in the hood, but we knew the hood aint where we wanted to remain... While we was gettin called HBO for Haitian Body odor, by the blacks in the hood, we moved out the projects eventually, Pops went to College, Moms went to college, My sis, and I went to College. We came from nothin and took advantage. So it's hard for people from other countries to see African Americans wallow in a country that affords them such opportunities. Gotta change your mindset. Gotta move foward and let the past be the past.

PLease don't get offended but there is seperation amongs blacks from other countries, and African Americans. I know Haitians, and Africans..call Black Americans. "Bums"....Don't be like those Bum Americans, don't wear your clothes like them, Pops wouldn't even let me get High top Fades back in the day, because I would look too much like a "Bum"... Black Flight is real.

African Americans community is always looking for Leaders...where are our leaders? Lead yourself...

 

[NYC Rebel]

I'm sorry but you gotta be kiddin me bro. Immigrants coming to this country are not set up like that, if they are balling like that in their country why come here? Immigrants come here to take advantage of education, and a strong economy, and opportunity.

Indians come here and shack up 2, 3 families in a house, wearing ragged clothes, but they got a goal in mind. They know in India, it's far worse...they bussin they arse puttin they kids through school.

My family came here from Haiti, bruh...the bottom of the bottom... We lived side by side with Blacks in the hood, but we knew the hood aint where we wanted to remain... While we was gettin called HBO for Haitian Body odor, by the blacks in the hood, we moved out the projects eventually, Pops went to College, Moms went to college, My sis, and I went to College. We came from nothin and took advantage. So it's hard for people from other countries to see African Americans wallow in a country that affords them such opportunities. Gotta change your mindset. Gotta move foward and let the past be the past.

PLease don't get offended but there is seperation amongs blacks from other countries, and African Americans. I know Haitians, and Africans..call Black Americans. "Bums"....Don't be like those Bum Americans, don't wear your clothes like them, Pops wouldn't even let me get High top Fades back in the day, because I would look too much like a "Bum"... Black Flight is real.

African Americans community is always looking for Leaders...where are our leaders? Lead yourself...

And where are your leaders back home?

It's always funny to me how the immigrant experience never reflects the experience of most of the people our parents left behind.

Get over being made fun of. I did....and I threw it back.

People seem really proud that the drop off point where white folks decided to place us somehow dictated them being better than the next group.

 

[Ice Water]

And where are your leaders back home?

It's always funny to me how the immigrant experience never reflects the experience of most of the people our parents left behind.

Get over being made fun of. I did....and I threw it back.

People seem really proud that the drop off point where white folks decided to place us somehow dictated them being better than the next group.

That's the point there are no leaders back home...So you pick ya as s up, get off the Island and look for better opportunity. Being made fun of didn't bother me, because it didn't stop the hustle and determination...I simply pointed that out, as the pure comedy of their own ignorance.

White people don't dictate any drop off point...You decide, and that's my whole point...You fukkin decide where you want to be...stop with, this is where they put us at bullish.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

I'm sorry but you gotta be kiddin me bro. Immigrants coming to this country are not set up like that, if they are balling like that in their country why come here? Immigrants come here to take advantage of education, and a strong economy, and opportunity.

Indians come here and shack up 2, 3 families in a house, wearing ragged clothes, but they got a goal in mind. They know in India, it's far worse...they bussin they arse puttin they kids through school.

My family came here from Haiti, bruh...the bottom of the bottom... We lived side by side with Blacks in the hood, but we knew the hood aint where we wanted to remain... While we was gettin called HBO for Haitian Body odor, by the blacks in the hood, we moved out the projects eventually, Pops went to College, Moms went to college, My sis, and I went to College. We came from nothin and took advantage. So it's hard for people from other countries to see African Americans wallow in a country that affords them such opportunities. Gotta change your mindset. Gotta move foward and let the past be the past.

PLease don't get offended but there is seperation amongs blacks from other countries, and African Americans. I know Haitians, and Africans..call Black Americans. "Bums"....Don't be like those Bum Americans, don't wear your clothes like them, Pops wouldn't even let me get High top Fades back in the day, because I would look too much like a "Bum"... Black Flight is real.

African Americans community is always looking for Leaders...where are our leaders? Lead yourself...

First off the word immigrants is way too broad to try and compare any one group to. Some immigrants come here with their lives already set up for them. Some immigrants swim accross the gulf and are just trying to stay alive. Some stand somewhere in the middle, they don't have a lot of money but they have enough education or other resources to make a living for themselves. The poor people you wanna compare "immigrants" to have absolutely nothing. No money, no resources, no support, run down schools, and most importantly no hope. Comparisions between the two are very misleading and offer absolutely no intelligent discourse, just devicive "I'm better than you" rhetoric, which you've obviously subscribed to.

Good story about your parents, I'm sure they worked hard. But the fact still stands that if they had the resources to make it to America, they were way better off than the poor people you're turning your nose up at. And plenty of poor African Americans make it out of the hood as well, so I'm not sure what your story is supposed to prove.

And as for the bolded, this idea of comparing immigrants to African Americans is exactly what creates the divide between black immigrants and black Americans. White folks have always used the idea of comparing us to divide us, and people like you sign up for that train of thought and poke your chest out thinking you're better than someone, but in reality you're still in the same exact place as the people you try to distance yourself from. It's comical that you say blacks are always looking for leaders, while you run around following the white man who doesn't give a single fukk about you.

 

[NYC Rebel]

That's the point there are no leaders back home...So you pick ya as s up, get off the Island and look for better opportunity. Being made fun of didn't bother me, because it didn't stop the hustle and determination...I simply pointed that out, as the pure comedy of their own ignorance.

White people don't dictate any drop off point...You decide, and that's my whole point...You fukkin decide where you want to be...stop with, this is where they put us at bullish.

My point about white folks dictating our drop off point is where we ended up in the diaspora. It seems to me that everyone likes to talk about them being so different than African Americans....as if they wouldn't have met the same fate as a people if they were dropped off into the states rather than in the Carribbean, South America or remaining in Africa.

Second....the entire "African Americans community is always looking for Leaders"

Since when is that an African American only thing?

 

[Ice Water]

First off the word immigrants is way too broad to try and compare any one group to. Some immigrants come here with their lives already set up for them. Some immigrants swim accross the gulf and are just trying to stay alive. Some stand somewhere in the middle, they don't have a lot of money but they have enough education or other resources to make a living for themselves. The poor people you wanna compare "immigrants" to have absolutely nothing. No money, no resources, no support, run down schools, and most importantly no hope. Comparisions between the two are very misleading and offer absolutely no intelligent discourse, just devicive "I'm better than you" rhetoric, which you've obviously subscribed to.

Good story about your parents, I'm sure they worked hard. But the fact still stands that if they had the resources to make it to America, they were way better off than the poor people you're turning your nose up at. And plenty of poor African Americans make it out of the hood as well, so I'm not sure what your story is supposed to prove.

And as for the bolded, this idea of comparing immigrants to African Americans is exactly what creates the divide between black immigrants and black Americans. White folks have always used the idea of comparing us to divide us, and people like you sign up for that train of thought and poke your chest out thinking you're better than someone, but in reality you're still in the same exact place as the people you try to distance yourself from. It's comical that you say blacks are always looking for leaders, while you run around following the white man who doesn't give a single fukk about you.

Of course there are all types of immigrants. The majority come here for a better chance. Just like there are all types of African Americans, and trust me my hat goes off to the ones makin it. Those the ones I associate with cause they on the same wavelength. Good Family values, and workin hard to get yours.

My story about my family, is just showing you that not all families come here set up...like we coming here on cruise ships, and slidin right into a Bimmer, and right to our suburbian homes. People really do kill themselves tryin to get here, just for that chance...so it sucks to see people who are born here squander their chances.

Who said I was running around following the white man? I never said anything about the white man. I'm talking about earning, and keeping yours. Working hard for what you get....If you associate that with the white man, that's where you are wrong. That's being the right man. Doing the right things to get ahead...sacrificing not having now, to have and build later.
Let that self shame go man... I'm not trying to be white...I'm living how I wanna live, and not being ashamed about it. Self empowerment is a muhfukka...