Dinesh D'Souza on Black failure

[theworldismine13]

I'm not ready to support something where only 17% of the schools perform better than public schools.

I will say this....piecing together things, I'm really starting to get annoyed by the apathetic nature of the Black Middle and Upper Class. I just did an interview with a Professor who finished a study where low income blacks were the most likely group to vote in election. Middle and upper income blacks were THE LEAST. It's perplexing looking at the lack of initiative from middle and upper income blacks, more interested in having Amen corner sessions about how low income blacks are fukking up while doing nothing collectively themselves.

So I mos def see some of your point.

And please....I'm not wrong. You can have the best attitude towards education, pass with flying colors and still come out of some of these schools as a functional illiterate.

i have zero loyalty to the public school system, any black person that does is delusional, im ready to support anything that increases the number of choice black people have to go to school and anything that increases an environment were innovation and new ideas are encouraged and where if schools fail they are closed, 17% is more than enough for me to fully support charter schools and i think the next step is vouchers

well lets get away from this word attitude and lets talk about culture, if you have a strong academic culture you will come out literate and ready for college even if you go to the worst school in the history of the world, in fact african and asian immigrants that go to the same horrible city schools and they come out ahead blacks and latinos and yes black people and latinos and white for that matter need to look at what they do as an example and learn from it

the fact that they maybe "pick of the litter" doesnt change the fact that we need to learn from them, learning from immigrants is one of the things that made america great

 

[NYC Rebel]

i have zero loyalty to the public school system, any black person that does is delusional, im ready to support anything that increases the number of choice black people have to go to school and anything that increases an environment were innovation and new ideas are encouraged and where if schools fail they are closed, 17% is more than enough for me to fully support charter schools and i think the next step is vouchers

well lets get away from this word attitude and lets talk about culture, if you have a strong academic culture you will come out literate and ready for college even if you go to the worst school in the history of the world, in fact african and asian immigrants that go to the same horrible city schools and they come out ahead blacks and latinos and yes black people and latinos and white for that matter need to look at what they do as an example and learn from it

the fact that they maybe "pick of the litter" doesnt change the fact that we need to learn from them, learning from immigrants is one of the things that made america great

It does take away from it because it's not realistic. It doesn't reflect the reality of their people.

I don't recall seeing many Asians in the fukked up schools you're talking about. And the Africans that do well in these fukked up schools are first generation Africans who got their early studies back home.

I can tell you from personal experience that when my father was thinking about sending me to Nigeria in 6th grade and had me take an exam from the school out there, I failed that shyt with flying colors. Dude smacked ME....me....in the gifted program in my fukked up school and passing math with flying colors.

 

[theworldismine13]

Stop comparing us to other races. On one hand you say black people need to distance, and support themselves, without worrying about white people but every chance you get you're comparing us to white people. Compare us to ourselves and you will see how our educational performance has been constantly increasing. We couldn't be improving our educational accomplishments if we didn't care about school.

there is no logical reason to not compare us to other races

second of all do you mean that just when it comes to education, do you think we should also stop comparing income levels and wealth?

the thing is i dont see a conflict between the two, we can compare ourselves to ourselves and we can compare ourselves to other, i dont see what the big deal is

and even looking at ourselves i would come to the same conclusion that black wealth is tied to black education and that to increase black wealth we would have to change the attitude toward education, that analyses stands by itself regardless if you compare us to us or us to them

black wealth has increased slowly as education has increased, im asserting that its not increasing fast enough and im suggesting ways to increase the rise in wealth

What opportunities could a poor kid provide for himself by thinking fondly of his fukked up school and teachers? Ceiling leaking, no books, teacher doesn't care, no extra curricular activities. But this little poor boy is gonna blaze a path for himself.

by himself? no, thats why i say black people need to change our culture, its more than just kids its the people that surround kids when they leave school that really need to change

You like to compare us to white folks, well they don't have to fight through all of those obstacles, so even if the little white boy has a bad attitude torward school, opportunities and support are handed to him on a silver plater so he will still do enough to make a decent living.

yeah, so what? that wouldnt change anything im saying

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Let me tell you something bruh....my life changed by the simple grabbing of my arm from a guidance counselor who insisted that I enter the school and got me a sit down with the principal my senior year.

My first HS for three years was featured in Jonathan Kozol's "SAvage Inequalities" and also with the movie Sunset Park. I was on the honor roll, bust my ass, yet still lagging behind until I got into the High my senior year (plus...they had a football team which opened the door to my athletic scholarship!!!) I had to lie to get into the school, telling them my mother was going to Nigeria for a year and I was moving in with my cousin up the street from the school. They initially denied me, but Ms Humphries insisted that I sit down with the Principal (RIP Mr. Mickens) who got me into the school. Her grabbing my arm changed my entire life.

The problem is...we don't have enough arms reaching out to kids that are worth it.

I feel you bruh and I've seen first hand. Growing up my parents got us out the hood, but my brother was already fukked. We made it to the white neighborhood and he couldn't shake his behavioral problems. He got expelled and ended up going to highschool back in the hood. My parents always stressed the importance of school so eventually he got his stuff together and tried really hard. He got into a the advanced classes and started getting good grades. I was in normal classes in 8th grade in the suburbs and my math homework was way more advanced than his in 12th grade advanced math in the hood. I was a little behind and disinterested in school but my highschool had a computer science vocational program, once I made it into that program I started to do a lot better and it set me up to do well in college.

Opportunities and quality schools are VERY important no matter what the attitude torward education is. I posted a couple pages back about my cousin, she's been staying with me and I'm very serious about her education, I work with her on stuff everyday, but then she goes to school and the teacher gives less than a flying fukk, she never gets any homework or feedback from her teachers, so it doesn't matter what I do at home, she will be at a severe disadvantage as she grows up.

 

[theworldismine13]

It does take away from it because it's not realistic. It doesn't reflect the reality of their people.

I don't recall seeing many Asians in the fukked up schools you're talking about. And the Africans that do well in these fukked up schools are first generation Africans who got their early studies back home.

I can tell you from personal experience that when my father was thinking about sending me to Nigeria in 6th grade and had me take an exam from the school out there, I failed that shyt with flying colors. Dude smacked ME....me....in the gifted program in my fukked up school and passing math with flying colors.

asians go to the same schools everybody else goes to, and if you dont think its realistic that black people can change our culture then that is where we fundamentally disagre

you just posted about eagle academy which is an example of black people doing exactly what ive been suggesting, i dont see how what i ma saying unrealistic

i cant really fuk with an ideology that says black wealth will increase when white people start doing something, good luck with that, you think its more realistic to end racsim???...ok sure lol

 

[NYC Rebel]

asians go to the same schools everybody else goes to, and if you dont think its realistic that black people can change our culture then that is where we fundamentally disagre

you just posted about eagle academy which is an example of black people doing exactly what ive been suggesting, i dont see how what i ma saying unrealistic

i cant really fuk with an ideology that says black wealth will increase when white people start doing something, good luck with that, you think its more realistic to end racsim???...ok sure lol

Eagle Academy is about education reform, not so much about black people doing anything different.

It's the same ol' shytty Brownsville it's always been around that school.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

there is no logical reason to not compare us to other races

second of all do you mean that just when it comes to education, do you think we should also stop comparing income levels and wealth?

the thing is i dont see a conflict between the two, we can compare ourselves to ourselves and we can compare ourselves to other, i dont see what the big deal is

and even looking at ourselves i would come to the same conclusion that black wealth is tied to black education and that to increase black wealth we would have to change the attitude toward education, that analyses stands by itself regardless if you compare us to us or us to them

black wealth has increased slowly as education has increased, im asserting that its not increasing fast enough and im suggesting ways to increase the rise in wealth

And I'm saying, fixing the attitude torward eduation won't help, when the things that created the poor attitude are still affecting the people. That's like saying the boat is leaking so we will just keep throwing buckets of water out without even trying to fix the hole. That makes no sense whatsoever. You gotta fix the hole to stop the leaking.

by himself? no, thats why i say black people need to change our culture, its more than just kids its the people that surround kids when they leave school that really need to change

You agreed that its impossible to change grown people, so our only chance at changing the "culture" is to change it through the kids. We can't change it through the kids if they don't have support and opportunities.

yeah, so what? that wouldnt change anything im saying

Yes it does. Your saying attitude is the defining factor in educational success, and I'm saying its much more complicated than that.

 

[theworldismine13]

Eagle Academy is about education reform, not so much about black people doing anything different.

It's the same ol' shytty Brownsville it's always been around that school.

And therefore you are resisting expanding charter schools like eagle academy and you think Brownsville will get better when white people start brig so racist

 

[NYC Rebel]

And therefore you are resisting expanding charter schools like eagle academy and you think Brownsville will get better when white people start brig so racist

Definitely not.

The model works. But most charter school models fail or are no different.

Brownsville....ugh...I don't think anything will change that place other than a do over button being hit.

 

[theworldismine13]

Definitely not.

The model works. But most charter school models fail or are no different.

part of the purpose of charter schools is to inject new ideas and new methods, so if the eagle academy model is working then it should be expanded until the other public schools that dont work are gone

from the base of black students with good education we can increase the wealth of the overall community

Brownsville....ugh...I don't think anything will change that place other than a do over button being hit

comments like this is why i dont feel bad about siding with dinesh

and this right here is the bottom line, aside from decrying racism, you have no clue as to how to increase the wealth of black people

dudes like you will write essays about white racism but

if somebody tries to start a new school system, you cry about it
if somebody tries to connect wealth with education you cry about it because apparently can you connected with race
if somebody says, hey maybe we should study the immigrants that come into brownsville and buy little stores, you cry about it

but in the end we see the truth, you dont have any ideas on how black people can turn brownsville into a prosperous community, all you know how to do is cry about racism

 

[NYC Rebel]

part of the purpose of charter schools is to inject new ideas and new methods, so if the eagle academy model is working then it should be expanded until the other public schools that dont work are gone

from the base of black students with good education we can increase the wealth of the overall community



comments like this is why i dont feel bad about siding with dinesh

and this right here is the bottom line, aside from decrying racism, you have no clue as to how to increase the wealth of black people

dudes like you will write essays about white racism but

if somebody tries to start a new school system, you cry about it
if somebody tries to connect wealth with education you cry about it because apparently can only by connected with racial issues
if somebody says, hey maybe we should study the immigrants that come into brownsville and buy little stores, you cry about it

but in the end we see the truth, you dont have any ideas on how black people can turn brownsville into a prosperous community, all you know how to do is cry about racism

Blah. Cats like you are so rigid and lack any elasticity when it comes to moving from your initial point.

I can honestly say that I'm ill equipped to come up with answers on fixing places like Brownsville, which houses the most housing projects in one location in the country.

I'm just not arrogant enough to think I can post some magic pill like you are to say this is the solution.

 

[theworldismine13]

And I'm saying, fixing the attitude torward eduation won't help, when the things that created the poor attitude are still affecting the people. That's like saying the boat is leaking so we will just keep throwing buckets of water out without even trying to fix the hole. That makes no sense whatsoever. You gotta fix the hole to stop the leaking.

but it does, and i am fixing the hole, im saying we need a new school system that deals with the fact that black kids come from anti academic environments, i am directly addressing the issue

everything starts with education, those other problems that are in the community are there because of lack of education, so what we need to is focus on education, other factors are secondary

like we agreed to disagree before, i dont believe that there is a vicious cycle, i believe we have one root problem, that is education, everybody needs to get their minds straight, people need to get focused, but its a free country people can do whatever they want but that is not going to stop history or change economic principles

You agreed that its impossible to change grown people, so our only chance at changing the "culture" is to change it through the kids. We can't change it through the kids if they don't have support and opportunities.

then if we cant then we cant and then imo black people are doomed to be poorer then everybody else, because ending racism will not create black wealth, black wealth is a function of the level of education of black people its not a function of how much white people like you or how well they treat you

Yes it does. Your saying attitude is the defining factor in educational success, and I'm saying its much more complicated than that.

ok sure

 

[theworldismine13]

Blah. Cats like you are so rigid and lack any elasticity when it comes to moving from your initial point.

I can honestly say that I'm ill equipped to come up with answers on fixing places like Brownsville, which houses the most housing projects in one location in the country.

I'm just not arrogant enough to think I can post some magic pill like you are to say this is the solution.

im definitely arrogant enough to suggest a magic pill,

first of all like i said before in the thread, housing projects should be destroyed because they (although not explicitly) they essentially violate the economic rights and individual rights of the residents because ownership is a basic part of the american economic system, so you cannot have a prosperous community in housing projects, no american citizen should have their home owned by the government, thats unamerican

second of all you have to eliminate the public school system and replace it with charters and vouchers

and third we have to start discussing black culture, the good the bad and the ugly of it, and the parts that are not contributing to black domination and black wealth have to be discarded and we have to discuss it in an open intellectual free environment

fourth we have to make sure to exercise our constitutional rights and civil liberties

 

[MeachTheMonster]

but it does, and i am fixing the hole, im saying we need a new school system that deals with the fact that black kids come from anti academic environments, i am directly addressing the issue

Naw you're advocating throwing more boats in the water and telling the kids to keep scooping the water out until they make it. Your plan creates a bigger divide between the haves and the have-nots. Yes SOME kids would make it but plenty of others wouldn't.

everything starts with education, those other problems that are in the community are there because of lack of education, so what we need to is focus on education, other factors are secondary

Sounds like a "chicken or egg" dichotomy on one hand we need education to fix the communities, but on the other hand we need to fix the communities in order to get quality educations.

like we agreed to disagree before, i dont believe that there is a vicious cycle, i believe we have one root problem, that is education, everybody needs to get their minds straight, people need to get focused, but its a free country people can do whatever they want but that is not going to stop history or change economic principles

I agree education is very important.

then if we cant then we cant and then imo black people are doomed to be poorer then everybody else, because ending racism will not create black wealth, black wealth is a function of the level of education of black people its not a function of how much white people like you or how well they treat you

You're more stuck on racism than anyone else. I've said absolutely nothing about ending racism or getting white people to like me.

ok sure

 

[theworldismine13]

Naw you're advocating throwing more boats in the water and telling the kids to keep scooping the water out until they make it. Your plan creates a bigger divide between the haves and the have-nots. Yes SOME kids would make it but plenty of others wouldn't.

yeah you can look at it that way, but its black people in general not kids and yeah there is a sink or swim aspect to what i am saying

but in the end it will increase black wealth

Sounds like a "chicken or egg" dichotomy on one hand we need education to fix the communities, but on the other hand we need to fix the communities in order to get quality educations.

im disputing that, i dont think its chicken and egg, i think education is fundamental everything else is secondary

You're more stuck on racism than anyone else. I've said absolutely nothing about ending racism or getting white people to like me.

oh my bad if it wasnt you, but people were bringing up the prison industrial complex, loan discrimination, discrimination in schools and jim crow