Debunking the Kobe is inefficient myth

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Because players weren't as skilled as they are now

False. Today's players can't even post-up. How are they more skilled? Today's game is simply more specialized while back in day guys were generalists. Now you go guys in the league who all they can do is catch n shoot 3s. Back in the day you needed to do more than just shoot the ball. Just cause you can do one thing better don't make you more skilled.

Also I rate Wilt Chamberlain as the greatest player in NBA history so I don't discount his numbers. I give credit where it's due.
 

MoneyTron

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2% is 2%, it's not nothing. But what about MJ's 2 PT%? The creator of the video and now you both emphasize Wade's numbers like he was the ultimate standard of efficiency yet Kobe is most often compared to MJ (just as Kobe wanted of course). So how many % points difference with MJ?
Also, 2 PT % can of course be broken down further by type of shot. How do Kobe's jump shot numbers compare to other elite guards?
And if we're gonna say Kobe was not inefficient because he was above league average, are we gonna say half the league deserves to be put in the same conversation as Kobe because they were above league average? Efficiency for role players is different from efficiency for superstars, let alone all time great players.

As for your last point, that is just the old rings argument disguised as analytics: he can't have been inefficient because he won so much. That is just changing the meaning of the word efficiency rather than proving that Kobe was not inefficient.
2% on 2pt FG% is half a point at best. Given Wade didn’t shoot threes, its almost irrelevant.

MJ was in a different game at least during the high pace 80’s, and was flatout a better finisher than Kobe. Better leaper with larger hands. When he got older, his efficiency looked more like Kobe’s. In fact, it was pumped up in ‘96 and ‘97 due to the short 3 point line.

Regardless, I never said he was as efficient as MJ. No shooting guard at that scoring level has ever been(that’s partly why he’s the GOAT). He’s just not inefficient.

Half the league did not the have the offensive responsibilities Kobe had so its useless to conpare them. That’s why we’re using contemporaries like Wade, McGrady, Carter, Iverson, etc who were in similar roles with similar responsibilities in the same era.
 
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Controversy

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Bron, Magic, and Bird were table setters in addition to their scoring responsibility, no one set the table for them. Magic's scoring load was lower of course but this is an odd point to argue in defense of Kobe. If Kobe didn't have anyone setting the table for him, but other guys set the table, controlled the offense AND had to score the ball at high volume, you're not making a real defense for Kobe's comparative inefficiency...

Those other guys should be more inefficient than Kobe...

Mike could be a better playmaker than Kobe in addition to being a higher volume and more prolific scorer, yet was a more efficient scorer than Kobe...

Just a weird argument you're making in defense of Kobe with that point...

You obviously don't understand shot distributions...guys like MJ & LBJ attempted a higher # of shots near the basket, resulting in a higher FG %

Kobe had to play with post players that resulted in him having to take long range shots to space the floor...and those long range shots were almost always off the bounce

Idk why guys don't understand Kobe could've averaged 8 dimes easily if he chose to do so...look what he did playing PG in 2013...his role wasn't to be a PG most of his career...his role was to score and be a secondary facilitator bc the same way MJ did in Chicago

And back to the point at hand, shooting 45% is not inefficient when you operate primarily on the perimeter

Slashers shoot 50% bc their shot distribution lends to closer shots to the basket...LBJ is a career 35% shooter outside of 3 feet

Neither LBJ, MJ nor Magic would shoot 50% if their shot distribution was at the same range and volume of Kobe's shots
 

murksiderock

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You obviously don't understand shot distributions...guys like MJ & LBJ attempted a higher # of shots near the basket, resulting in a higher FG %

Kobe had to play with post players that resulted in him having to take long range shots to space the floor...and those long range shots were almost always off the bounce

Idk why guys don't understand Kobe could've averaged 8 dimes easily if he chose to do so...look what he did playing PG in 2013...his role wasn't to be a PG most of his career...his role was to score and be a secondary facilitator bc the same way MJ did in Chicago

And back to the point at hand, shooting 45% is not inefficient when you operate primarily on the perimeter

Slashers shoot 50% bc their shot distribution lends to closer shots to the basket...LBJ is a career 35% shooter outside of 3 feet

Neither LBJ, MJ nor Magic would shoot 50% if their shot distribution was at the same range and volume of Kobe's shots

I understand shot distribution but I'll come back to that later...

Kobe was a career ~.400 shooter beyond 3ft on ~15.2 FGA, which improved to ~.411 on ~16.2 FGA beyond 3ft in the postseason; by comparison LeBron is a career ~.380 shooter beyond 3ft on ~12.6 FGA, which shrunk to ~.366 on ~13.3 FGA in the playoffs...

Both playoff and regular season shooting numbers are better than your 35%, and his shot attempts beyond 3ft increased in the playoffs which shows his aggression and confidence in his jump shooting. 38% and 36.6% on non-restricted area shooting are not bad numbers, by the way...

Kobe was a better shooter than LeBron, is that breaking news? Part of the issue with your comparison that hurts your own argument is you're comparing them as similar profiles of player...

LeBron is both the greatest transition scorer in NBA history, and the greatest rim-pressuring wing in NBA history. Guys will talk about Steph's gravity or Kobe's shot making or other characteristics but ignore the effects Bron's transcendent offense had on both his team offense and the opponent defense. Surely I don't need to explain the significance of rim pressure and transition scoring even for average NBA players, right? Let alone the absolute best at both skills in league history...

Kobe was a good shooter, but he wasn't a transcendent one, and he was smart enough to have seen the value in adding a stronger slash, or paint, or drive arsenal to his game. He had a tendency to take shots he didn't need to take, that weren't always the best for the team offense. He also was slight and didn't have the frame to add huge scoring punch outside jump shooting, especially once his athleticism waned, but that was within his control because Mike was also slight of frame...

If Kobe develops a little more interior presence to his game, the Lakers build around him differently and he doesn't play with post players who choke the spacing. How is it a demerit for Bron that he's found success with both a big and perimeter guys who were interior oriented, as well as shooters?

The points all count the same, my boy. If you score from right under the rim or nail a 14-footer, it's still 2 points. If you hit a where from outside the arc it's still 3 points. The gap between Bron's scoring at the rim (.737/.736), and Kobe's (.637/.602) is much more significant than Kobe's advantage at non-restricted area shooting (.400/.411 to Bron's .380/.366). Bron had a different physique to impose himself more physically but was also a smarter scorer...
 

Controversy

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I understand shot distribution but I'll come back to that later...

Kobe was a career ~.400 shooter beyond 3ft on ~15.2 FGA, which improved to ~.411 on ~16.2 FGA beyond 3ft in the postseason; by comparison LeBron is a career ~.380 shooter beyond 3ft on ~12.6 FGA, which shrunk to ~.366 on ~13.3 FGA in the playoffs...

Both playoff and regular season shooting numbers are better than your 35%, and his shot attempts beyond 3ft increased in the playoffs which shows his aggression and confidence in his jump shooting. 38% and 36.6% on non-restricted area shooting are not bad numbers, by the way...

Kobe was a better shooter than LeBron, is that breaking news? Part of the issue with your comparison that hurts your own argument is you're comparing them as similar profiles of player...

LeBron is both the greatest transition scorer in NBA history, and the greatest rim-pressuring wing in NBA history. Guys will talk about Steph's gravity or Kobe's shot making or other characteristics but ignore the effects Bron's transcendent offense had on both his team offense and the opponent defense. Surely I don't need to explain the significance of rim pressure and transition scoring even for average NBA players, right? Let alone the absolute best at both skills in league history...

Kobe was a good shooter, but he wasn't a transcendent one, and he was smart enough to have seen the value in adding a stronger slash, or paint, or drive arsenal to his game. He had a tendency to take shots he didn't need to take, that weren't always the best for the team offense. He also was slight and didn't have the frame to add huge scoring punch outside jump shooting, especially once his athleticism waned, but that was within his control because Mike was also slight of frame...

If Kobe develops a little more interior presence to his game, the Lakers build around him differently and he doesn't play with post players who choke the spacing. How is it a demerit for Bron that he's found success with both a big and perimeter guys who were interior oriented, as well as shooters?

The points all count the same, my boy. If you score from right under the rim or nail a 14-footer, it's still 2 points. If you hit a where from outside the arc it's still 3 points. The gap between Bron's scoring at the rim (.737/.736), and Kobe's (.637/.602) is much more significant than Kobe's advantage at non-restricted area shooting (.400/.411 to Bron's .380/.366). Bron had a different physique to impose himself more physically but was also a smarter scorer...

Now look at Kobe's #s before the achilles tear. This is what we know, Kobe didn't have the luxury of being a primary slasher or primary post option bc of spacing, esp during his peak in the 00s. Bron had the luxury bc he played with shooters and bigs that shot jumpers, essentially unclogging the lane for him.

Again, I will reiterate, shooting 45% as a perimeter oriented player is good efficiency...to suggest otherwise is crazy
 

Jesus Is Lord

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So Kobe having a percentage that’s 2% lower than higher percentage players, makes him inefficient? That’s dumb thinking and holds no weight. Once again, he’s not inefficient, 45% is not inefficient for a scoring shooting guard. It’s inefficient for a center or power forward because they’re bigger and closer to the basket.
 

DonRe

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The problem i think
Most stats dudes have against kobe is the fact that they cant guage his importance to his team based on the strategy (hybrid triangle) phil had for him and what the defense was throwing at him.

And on the surface level, kobe entertainment and skill factor is
Off the chart. Unmeasurable.
 

TheNig

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So without Kobe on the court in 2005-06, the Lakers had the 3rd worst offense in NBA history. Not surprising when you consider Kwame Brown, Luke Walton, and Smush Parker were starters. But with Kobe on the court they had the 3rd best offense in the league.

That's the largest differential in offensive efficiency in NBA history by a wide margin. Kobe in 2005-06 was on some 2004 Barry Bonds shyt.
I tell people all the time, 05-06 Kobe is the best basketball player I've ever seen.
 

10bandz

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The problem i think
Most stats dudes have against kobe is the fact that they cant guage his importance to his team based on the strategy (hybrid triangle) phil had for him and what the defense was throwing at him.

And on the surface level, kobe entertainment and skill factor is
Off the chart. Unmeasurable.

The reality is a lot of East coast dudes don’t watch west coast games like that. For any sport. nikkas wasn’t growing up staying up until 1am EST to watch Kobe play. They didn’t watch Kobe play like that except for a few games a season and half the playoff games. That’s why they gotta hyper focus on stats to gauge him
 

Ozymandeas

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I don't want to burst y'all bubble but most of his arguments don't really make sense. I love Kobe as a player and would take prime Kobe on my team any day but the inefficiency claim is not made up.

One, people usually mean Kobe's 2 pt FG% when talking about his lower efficiency.

Two, being "above league average" isn't necessarily good enough to justify taking as many shots as Kobe did. Any team's shot distribution will contain decent to good to great shots. Shooting a lot of your team's shots at only just above league average rather than giving the shot to a perimeter sharp shooter would not necessarily be in the best interest of your team. Plus the fact of the matter is, elite guards nowadays are around 60% TS so Kobe in comparison to those guys was relatively inefficient. Same with the comparison to MJ. A few percentage points is actually a lot with TS%.

Third, the defensive rating numbers it appears are including those team's performances against you? So especially in the playoffs, if you go 7 games, at least 25% (and often substantially more) of their overall defensive rating is determined by how well they guarded your team, and that is of course majorly influenced by how your offense fits around your star player and how well he does. So playing against teams with a lower overall defensive rating (after the season is over) isn't necessarily something to brag about.

Thank you. This thinly prepared paragraph really does disprove that 15 minute video.
 
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The reality is a lot of East coast dudes don’t watch west coast games like that. For any sport. nikkas wasn’t growing up staying up until 1am EST to watch Kobe play. They didn’t watch Kobe play like that except for a few games a season and half the playoff games. That’s why they gotta hyper focus on stats to gauge him

Nah. I don't think so. Kobe was must watch TV. Everyone watched him. The guys who turned to stats to hate on him just did it cause that's all they had to use. They just didn't like Kobe. Had nothing to do with not watching him play.
 
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