No he’s not Kobe’s TS% is on par with MJ, Birds and Brons. Magic is higher than all of them but never shot 3s
Debunking the Kobe is inefficient myth
- Thread starter Swagnificent
- Start date
Oh for sure. There’s nikkas on this forum who claimed Kobe wasn’t even that heralded before he died. Like he was never considered top 10 until he died. It’s pathetic
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Bigblackted4
Superstar
It made sense
Jesus Is Lord
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Kobe isn’t inefficient at all. Especially in comparison to them. Check the stats.
Watch the video. From 2000-2013, Kobe's true shooting percentage was 55.6%. In that same time LeBron's TS% was 57.5%. Jordan's TS% from 1984-1998 was 58.0%.
56% vs 58% is not that big a difference. Especially when you consider Kobe played tougher competition defensively.
I think nuanced fans can look back on the era he played in and see that given the volume he scored at, he was above average.
The league average FG% in '04 was 44%. Even 2pt FG% was at 46%.
That 2000-2009 era was defined by iso guards, post play, slashing, lack of motion, bailout 3's, and long 2's. Ugly but that was the game.
Kobe in today's league is putting up similar shooting numbers to Devin Booker on higher volume.
I would argue today's game is uglier. More efficiency doesn't mean prettier basketball.
I personally prefer the 90s/2000s style of basketball. It was more aesthetic to watch.
This.
The only high volume scorer who is in his own tier efficiency wise is KD. His shooting efficiency metrics are just stupid.
Ozymandeas
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waltthizzney
All Star
kobe had to bail out his teammates at the end of the shot clock playing on bum teams for most of his career
I don't want to burst y'all bubble but most of his arguments don't really make sense. I love Kobe as a player and would take prime Kobe on my team any day but the inefficiency claim is not made up.
One, people usually mean Kobe's 2 pt FG% when talking about his lower efficiency.
Two, being "above league average" isn't necessarily good enough to justify taking as many shots as Kobe did. Any team's shot distribution will contain decent to good to great shots. Shooting a lot of your team's shots at only just above league average rather than giving the shot to a perimeter sharp shooter would not necessarily be in the best interest of your team. Plus the fact of the matter is, elite guards nowadays are around 60% TS so Kobe in comparison to those guys was relatively inefficient. Same with the comparison to MJ. A few percentage points is actually a lot with TS%.
Third, the defensive rating numbers it appears are including those team's performances against you? So especially in the playoffs, if you go 7 games, at least 25% (and often substantially more) of their overall defensive rating is determined by how well they guarded your team, and that is of course majorly influenced by how your offense fits around your star player and how well he does. So playing against teams with a lower overall defensive rating (after the season is over) isn't necessarily something to brag about.
One, people usually mean Kobe's 2 pt FG% when talking about his lower efficiency.
Two, being "above league average" isn't necessarily good enough to justify taking as many shots as Kobe did. Any team's shot distribution will contain decent to good to great shots. Shooting a lot of your team's shots at only just above league average rather than giving the shot to a perimeter sharp shooter would not necessarily be in the best interest of your team. Plus the fact of the matter is, elite guards nowadays are around 60% TS so Kobe in comparison to those guys was relatively inefficient. Same with the comparison to MJ. A few percentage points is actually a lot with TS%.
Third, the defensive rating numbers it appears are including those team's performances against you? So especially in the playoffs, if you go 7 games, at least 25% (and often substantially more) of their overall defensive rating is determined by how well they guarded your team, and that is of course majorly influenced by how your offense fits around your star player and how well he does. So playing against teams with a lower overall defensive rating (after the season is over) isn't necessarily something to brag about.
From ‘99 to ‘13 Kobe’s 2pt FG% was 49%. From 2004 to 2013 Wade was at 51%. The difference is negligible.
As for comparing his TS to today’s guards, doesn’t make since as league TS% has risen significantly. How the game is played for perimeter players has changed significantly as well. Big 2 guards in Kobe’s era(outside of Ray and Reggie), were asked to create offense by themselves. Naturally that means tougher offensive opportunities.
Given the Lakers were routinely one of the best offenses in the league with Kobe playing, don’t see the arguement for him taking “too many” shots. For a player of his talent, 20-22FGA should be expected.
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2% is 2%, it's not nothing. But what about MJ's 2 PT%? The creator of the video and now you both emphasize Wade's numbers like he was the ultimate standard of efficiency yet Kobe is most often compared to MJ (just as Kobe wanted of course). So how many % points difference with MJ?
Also, 2 PT % can of course be broken down further by type of shot. How do Kobe's jump shot numbers compare to other elite guards?
And if we're gonna say Kobe was not inefficient because he was above league average, are we gonna say half the league deserves to be put in the same conversation as Kobe because they were above league average? Efficiency for role players is different from efficiency for superstars, let alone all time great players.
As for your last point, that is just the old rings argument disguised as analytics: he can't have been inefficient because he won so much. That is just changing the meaning of the word efficiency rather than proving that Kobe was not inefficient.
Jordan played in a different era (especially around the mid to late 80s) which is why they didn't compare him to Kobe. Wade is better comparison (along with all his other contemporaries) because they played in the same era against similar opponents and defenses. It's just a better apples to apples comparison.
League average was just used as a baseline. Kobe’s volume was way higher than the average player. Which is why the creator of the video highlighted only scorers with similar high volume to Kobe when trying to determine his efficiency. Basically it comes down to this. If most guys who took Kobe's volume ended up with roughly the same TS% as him then how could Kobe be inefficient?
Because players weren't as skilled as they are now plus higher volume tends to lead to greater inefficiency in any era?
People can't have it both ways saying Wilt and them's numbers have to be adjusted for because the competition was supposedly weak and players weren't as skilled but then say it doesn't count for comparing Kobe and Wade etc. to today's players. Shooting numbers are shooting numbers no matter what the era.
murksiderock
Superstar
Bron, Magic, and Bird were table setters in addition to their scoring responsibility, no one set the table for them. Magic's scoring load was lower of course but this is an odd point to argue in defense of Kobe. If Kobe didn't have anyone setting the table for him, but other guys set the table, controlled the offense AND had to score the ball at high volume, you're not making a real defense for Kobe's comparative inefficiency...
Those other guys should be more inefficient than Kobe...
Mike could be a better playmaker than Kobe in addition to being a higher volume and more prolific scorer, yet was a more efficient scorer than Kobe...
Just a weird argument you're making in defense of Kobe with that point...