"Death to the Pessimistic State of Mind" - Nas Voice: NYK '23 Pre-Season Thread

storyteller

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Am I lunching? Fournier would sit out entire 4th quarters. Thibs didn’t love him like he loved Burks. He barely averaged 30 mins a game.
If the stories about how the Knicks value Grimes are true (and apparently others such as Jerry West), then I think they'll make sure Grimes gets big minutes. They kept Grimes out of all discussions and were willing to attach a first to Fournier's contract to deal him.

But we're still talking about Thibodeau and with Brunson/Rose owning the PG minutes, you've also gotta find SG minutes for IQ. Then they also should look to open up some opportunity for Cam at SF if they intend to keep him. And that's with RJ's minutes at the wing too.

The logjams are gonna be a problem. Players are gonna be unhappy. I think moving Fournier makes the most sense to alleviate it a bit. But I do get why keeping him could work too...for all the hate he catches, he's an elite three-point shooter and spacing is always a concern for this team.
 

DoubleClutch

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I’m looking at the stacked eastern conference now. And are Knicks even guaranteed a playoff spot? :snoop:

The franchise put all their hope in RJ and Brunson

Rude awakening for Knicks fans today :francis:

And Cam reddish apparently wants out :unimpressed:
 

mvp_status

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I’m looking at the stacked eastern conference now. And are Knicks even guaranteed a playoff spot? :snoop:

The franchise put all their hope in RJ and Brunson

Rude awakening for Knicks fans today :francis:

And Cam reddish apparently wants out :unimpressed:
No they aren't guaranteed a playoff spot, but the roster post-Mitchell trade was looking like a borderline play-in team anyway so that doesn't guarantee anything either.

No they didn't put all their hope in RJ and Brunson, that implies that they didn't make any serious offers to get Mitchell (false), or won't make any other attempts to improve the team in the near future (also false)

And Cam himself has already shot down that report on social media

Basically, relax lol
 

storyteller

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I’m looking at the stacked eastern conference now. And are Knicks even guaranteed a playoff spot? :snoop:

The franchise put all their hope in RJ and Brunson

Rude awakening for Knicks fans today :francis:

And Cam reddish apparently wants out :unimpressed:

They would barely guarantee a playoff spot after trading for Mitchell with how deep the conference has gotten. I’ve said it for like 5 years running now, but it’s more important than ever. They should let the youth play, sink or swim, and live with the results.

If they excel then we have a clear path with the developing guys. If they flop then we’re in a lottery with at least two generational talents and very possibly more.
 

Ironman

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The only problem with that is low & behold Thibs. He would most definitely defer to Fournier over Cam because.....he's a vet lol. We need to move all of our current vets (accept D-Rose if possible) off the team so he has no choice but to play the youth.

I don't trust Thibs bro
We got rid of vets 3 months ago:francis:It's Thibs responsibility to bench the current ones which won't happen besides Rose
 

Knicksman20

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Am I lunching? Fournier would sit out entire 4th quarters. Thibs didn’t love him like he loved Burks. He barely averaged 30 mins a game.
I think it's because he had other vets he could "lean" on like Randle & Burks. The FO has to force him to play the youth by removing the vets. I still don't trust Thibs when it comes to this bro lol. Just look at his track record
 

Miles Davis

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Saw someone turn it into a three team deal. The hornets want out of Hayward, lakers want off russ, Knicks want off Randle. So they suggested Randle to Charlotte (replace miles bridges); Hayward to the lakers; russ to the Knicks (waive russ right away).

The lakers had some rumors they’d throw in a pick so that could be a sweetener too.

That’s a dream scenario…but kinda has a shot.
The ol’ you scratch my back, I scratch your back. Too bad the league too petty to help each other out
 

firemanBk

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I think it's because he had other vets he could "lean" on like Randle & Burks. The FO has to force him to play the youth by removing the vets. I still don't trust Thibs when it comes to this bro lol. Just look at his track record
The front office has to force him by getting rid of vets that they signed literally one year ago :dead:
Reminder this was the front offices fukk up first before Thibs did anything. And I can't stand that mf
Thibs can't play trash vets if the team isn't loaded with them like they were last year
 

storyteller

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Congratulations, New York, you didn’t get Mitchell.

And you should be just as happy about that.

Utah executed its second blockbuster trade in three months on Thursday, shipping Mitchell to Cleveland for three first-round picks—unprotected first-round picks—two pick swaps and a handful of players Jazz CEO Danny Ainge probably doesn’t care too much about. The Cavs, armed with one of the NBA’s best backcourts—LeBron James, responding to a tweet about how tough a Mitchell-Darius Garland backcourt would be, replied “SO TOUGH”—a long, athletic front line and still solid supporting cast, have the pieces for a deep playoff run. The Jazz, after offloading Mitchell and Rudy Gobert, will spend this season practicing how to pronounce Wembanyama.

The Knicks? They should be glad they stayed out of it. Talks between New York and Utah have been going on for weeks, with the Jazz hoping to extract the same pound of flesh they did from Minnesota and New York doing everything it can to resist it. A Leon Rose-imposed Monday deadline came and went, followed by the Knicks inking R.J. Barrett to a long-agreed upon extension. That opened the door for Cleveland, a surprise play-in entry last season, to swoop in and make a deal.

There will be some grumbling about the Knicks’ refusal to meet the Jazz’s price, but seriously—be happy they didn’t. This has nothing to do with Mitchell, a terrific player, a better person, a 25-year old, Elmsford, N.Y.-born, Queens—by virtue of Mitchell’s father, Donovan Sr.’s, position in the front office of the Mets—raised two guard whose best days are ahead of them. It’s that while Mitchell pushes the Cavs closer to a championship level, the cost of a Mitchell deal, long term, could have set the Knicks back.

Think about it: What if New York had met Ainge’s asking price? R.J. Barrett would have been gone. Multiple first-round picks, along with swap rights, which Ainge was determined to collect, would have been out the door, too. Would the Knicks have been better than the 37-win team that missed the playoffs last season? Sure. Would they have made the playoffs in a suddenly loaded Eastern Conference? I’m not so sure about that.

What would a Mitchell-led Knicks team looks like? A Mitchell-Jalen Brunson frontcourt is appealing. Offensively, at least. But then what? Can you count on a bounce-back year from Julius Randle? Giant leaps forward from Obi Toppin, Immanuel Quickley and Quentin Grimes? A big year from Mitchell Robinson? Something from Cam Reddish?

Here's the thing, New York: You’re average. And that’s O.K. For decades the Knicks have been searching for basketball’s silver bullet, signing mediocre players to bloated contracts, dumping draft picks in ill-advised trades. Two lottery picks for Eddy Curry. Another for Andrea Bargnani. Previous front offices, routinely run by unqualified executives or James Dolan yes-men, looked overmatched. When Barrett signed his extension this week, he became the first Knicks first-round pick to sign an extension this century.

New York is fine. It is not as good as the 41-win team that shocked the NBA during the pandemic-shortened 2020-21 season, nor is it as bad as the sloppy group that stumbled through the last one. But it is developing. The Knicks have Brunson, a budding scorer in Dallas anxious for a bigger role. They have Robinson, a 24-year old shot blocker still oozing with potential. They have Barrett, a just-turned 22-year old forward coming off his 20-point per game season. Is he a franchise player? Probably not. But he’s a 6-foot-6, scorer strapped with a mid-30% level three-point shot. He’s inefficient, but people close to Barrett say an offseason spent working on his finishing as well as adding a more polished off the dribble jumper should improve that.

There’s no rush. At least there shouldn’t be. The Knicks have good young players. They are armed with a cache of draft picks. If the scouting department does its job—and Barrett, Grimes, even Jericho Sims, a second-round pick in 2021 who looked sharp in summer league, suggest it is—New York will grow organically. Which may give the Knicks more staying power.

So relax, New York. It will be hard to watch the Cavs next season, to watch Mitchell thrive on a team that should fight for a top-five seed while the Knicks claw towards the play-in. But this is the way it goes. The Cavs were in position to go all-in to get Mitchell because they spent the last four years drafting smart and trading shrewdly, building a team that was a Mitchell-level player away from being a contender. The Knicks, simply, are not there yet.
 

ISO

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All star teams are just popularity contest. I aint giving Donovan no stripes for selling a bunch of jerseys. And I give Gobert and his defense more credit for Utah success than Donovan because the second Gobert defense gets neutralized Utah flames out. If Donavan is that good how come he can't overcome that at least once in his career? Where is the playoff series where Gobert was getting ran off the floor but Donavan played well enough that it didn't matter.

50 win seasons...who gives a fukk :mjlol: . When I google the 50 win mvp player nothing comes up:mjlol:.

I have no clue why Cleveland even traded for him. Allen is one of their best players and we know 30 for 30 don't pass the ball to centers. Might as well trade Allen to since he about to get 2.2 touches a game :mjlol:

Which star player do I like? The one's who don't take 30 shots to get 30 points while getting cooked by Brunson:mjlol:
No, no, no stop the bullshyt Mitchell has been one of the best offensive players in the game now the All-Star game is a popularity contest and you don’t care how many jerseys he sells as if he is undeserving…

Jazz were never a championship level team they’re good for around 50 wins and a second round exit that’s their team ceiling. Here in this series Gobert was too busy getting dunked on and FaceTimed by Terence Mann while Mitchell was averaging 35/5/5 and cooking everyone they put on him big or small.

The Knicks have one 50 win season in 20 years it matters consistency and sustained relevancy matters building a culture of competition matters. The Knicks are not going to leap frog from mid to championship contender.

Rudy can’t post up 6 foot guards or catch a basketball if it isn’t lobbed above the rim and has no range and you’re surprised Mitchell doesn’t pass to him. It won’t be the same with Jarrett Allen. Instead of talking about that talk about the three point assists and hockey assists Mitchell generates with his penetration and kick out passing ability.

U don’t like any star players based on your criterion other than the ones who have already won championships or made the Finals. A narrative can be made about the rest and they have worst moments than Mitchell did. Mitchell has the 7th highest points per game average in NBA playoff history and his teams have always maximized how far they could go based on their talent level.

Mitchell wasn’t even Brunson’s matchup it was Royce O’Neale…
 

ISO

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Only reason there’s “outrage” is because Mitchell is a new yorker

A real Knicks fan been thru the hard times, we would rather our home grown stars we build up in opposed to a bought championship.

Mitchell is a great player but doesn’t fit with Brunson.

If roles were reversed and Mitchell would have signed here before Brunson ask yourself, would you still want to trade for Brunson?
He does fit with Brunson though they would have catapult the Knicks offense from what it’s been any defensive shortcomings would be schemed for it’s a trade off but it would have been a well above average backcourt.

Cleveland will have no problem starting Garland and Mitchell while Knicks fans stay talking about team building cliches about small backcourts for a team that is nowhere near a championship with or without dude.
 
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