"Death to the Pessimistic State of Mind" - Nas Voice: NYK '23 Pre-Season Thread

[RickyGQ]

If you're trying to be a perennial contender, I don't think Brunson/Mitchell gets you there. So you set your price accordingly, which means keeping enough assets to acquire another big piece or to change the roster in case the undersized pairing flops (I picture big backcourts like Boston beating them consistently).

But if you can get Donovan Mitchell...you've gotta at least try. Especially since most of the competition is either:
a) holding less assets
b) focused on other options like Kyrie or KD
c) run by Pat Riley who Danny Ainge hates and would probably love to screw over

But drive a hard bargain and be prepared to hold on until the next available star pops up...it rarely takes long. I'm waiting on SGA rumors and think he'll cost less.

Presti isn’t the best trade partner either but I feel you on SGA. I still think Zach is a real possibility. If he asks out to a destination, can the Bulls do that much better than say, Randle, Fournier and 2 firsts? I think another thing we have going for us is not many teams have the maneuverability cap wise to trade for a star player in-season. It’s gonna be difficult to get to the 32-40 million needed to get a star without giving up a lot of talent needed to contend.

 

[storyteller]

More so Randle his relationship with fans is toxic. Ev has been benched in 4th Qs so it won't be a problem just start Grimes. Randle is a legitimate issue and he's blocking who the fans actually want to see play and that's Obi.

I actually feel bad for Fournier because he got it together during the season & played well. But he is who he is...a good offensive player but a below average defender and a liability on this team in the starting lineup. Randle needs to go. Moving him is an addition by subtraction

Agreed on both counts. I actually like Fournier for what he is. A sharpshooter that can do just a little bit of ball handling and playmaking in a pinch against closeouts. I think he'd probably body off the bench with all the passing that projects to be there. But I'm also worried about another Alec Burks situation. Even off the bench, fans might get mad if Reddish is out of the rotation. So addition by subtraction indeed.

Presti isn’t the best trade partner either but I feel you on SGA. I still think Zach is a real possibility. If he asks out to a destination, can the Bulls do that much better than say, Randle, Fournier and 2 firsts? I think another thing we have going for us is not many teams have the maneuverability cap wise to trade for a star player in-season. It’s gonna be difficult to get to the 32-40 million needed to get a star without giving up a lot of talent needed to contend.

That's another example of Brock Aller being one of the biggest additions we've made. From contract structures and planning perspectives, the man is a huge asset. When contracts get even crazier in the future, I think he'll only be more valuable to have around. Add Perrin for turning picks into value players and we have two huge weapons for asset accumulation. I've kinda given up on Zach after the extension, but he's exactly the type of player I'd like to find.

 

[Ironman]

Agreed on both counts. I actually like Fournier for what he is. A sharpshooter that can do just a little bit of ball handling and playmaking in a pinch against closeouts. I think he'd probably body off the bench with all the passing that projects to be there. But I'm also worried about another Alec Burks situation. Even off the bench, fans might get mad if Reddish is out of the rotation. So addition by subtraction indeed.


That's another example of Brock Aller being one of the biggest additions we've made. From contract structures and planning perspectives, the man is a huge asset. When contracts get even crazier in the future, I think he'll only be more valuable to have around. Add Perrin for turning picks into value players and we have two huge weapons for asset accumulation. I've kinda given up on Zach after the extension, but he's exactly the type of player I'd like to find.

Honestly I think we have one of the best leverages and should just be patient. I just hope the FO doesn't panic with all these Donny trade rumors all of a sudden. Just sit back and see if anyone attempts too. The fact that Minn still has Ant Mayne, KAT, and DLo says we can play hardball.

 

[ISO]

We’re a playoff team as is.

 

[ISO]

The whole small backcourts can’t win is one of the biggest cliches in the game…

And then Lillard and McCollum is used as the case study when those two simply were never winning in an era dominated by arguably the greatest dynasty in the history of the sport and arguably the greatest player in the history of the sport were meeting year in and year out in the Finals with other good teams in the mix. They weren’t good enough.

Lillard and McCollum was a highly effective backcourt that usually lifted the Blazers past their talent level to several 50 win seasons and a WCF appearance. They usually had mediocre forwards around them like Harkless, Aminu, Turner, Crabbe, Vonleh.

The following small backcourts (both members 6’4 and under) have won championships…

Frazier & Monroe
West & Goodrich
Cheeks & Toney
Lowry & VanVleet
White Chocolate & Wade
Williams and Johnson
Thomas & Dumars

Then you have others off the top of my head like Harper and Starks, Payton and Hawkins, and Iverson and Snow that made it to the Finals. shyt back in the day before Jordan prototyped the SG body the league was littered with small backcourts and SG’s who were only 6’2-6’4.

Edit: Curry and Poole could arguably be on the list

 

[seemorecizzy]

Presti isn’t the best trade partner either but I feel you on SGA. I still think Zach is a real possibility. If he asks out to a destination, can the Bulls do that much better than say, Randle, Fournier and 2 firsts? I think another thing we have going for us is not many teams have the maneuverability cap wise to trade for a star player in-season. It’s gonna be difficult to get to the 32-40 million needed to get a star without giving up a lot of talent needed to contend.

keep dreaming bro lmao
lavine has never gave ANY indication that he wants to come to the knicks and didn't even meet with any other teams in free agency.

also da.bulls have a way better team than us

 

[DPresidential]

Presti isn’t the best trade partner either but I feel you on SGA. I still think Zach is a real possibility. If he asks out to a destination, can the Bulls do that much better than say, Randle, Fournier and 2 firsts? I think another thing we have going for us is not many teams have the maneuverability cap wise to trade for a star player in-season. It’s gonna be difficult to get to the 32-40 million needed to get a star without giving up a lot of talent needed to contend.

My God, imagine that.

Brunson, Lavine, Barrett, Obi, Mitch

 

[seemorecizzy]

donovon mitchell should have expressed his interest in coming here weeks ago. his timing is pointless and detrimental to the team.

also, even though he's nice, he aint worth what danny ainge would demand. time to move on

 

[Ethnic Vagina Finder]

I know know. I’m not giving up Barrett Jr for Mitchell. He’s 3 years younger and has gotten better every year.

 

[ISO]

I know know. I’m not giving up Barrett Jr for Mitchell. He’s 3 years younger and has gotten better every year.

Barrett is largely the same player he was at Duke his improvements have been marginal.

He will never be as good as Mitchell is now and losing him would be addition by subtraction and he is also due for a contract he has little chance of performing to.

 

[seemorecizzy]

I know know. I’m not giving up Barrett Jr for Mitchell. He’s 3 years younger and has gotten better every year.

mitchell been in ny all summer hanging around with quickly and scrimmaging with some of our other players. he's also good friends with our assistant coach.

if he wanted to come, he woulda made it known. ainge is da one who decided to see what he could get for him. this isnt even a trade demand lmao

 

[ISO]

mitchell been in ny all summer hanging around with quickly and scrimmaging with some of our other players. he's also good friends with our assistant coach.

if he wanted to come, he woulda made it known. ainge is da one who decided to see what he could get for him. this isnt even a trade demand lmao

Utah wasn’t taking trade proposals then.

Mitchell isn’t answering their calls.

 

[firemanBk]

I know know. I’m not giving up Barrett Jr for Mitchell. He’s 3 years younger and has gotten better every year.

I would argue all RJ did was take more shots last year and that he wasn't actually any better than his sophomore year
He was arguably worse

This is his last year of any value if he chucks a bit more to get above 22PPG you know they're gonna be demanding that max extension
Denver fukked it up for everyone giving MPJ that rookie max after one decent starting season

 

[RickyGQ]

And then Lillard and McCollum is used as the case study when those two simply were never winning in an era dominated by arguably the greatest dynasty in the history of the sport and arguably the greatest player in the history of the sport were meeting year in and year out in the Finals with other good teams in the mix. They weren’t good enough.

Lillard and McCollum was a highly effective backcourt that usually lifted the Blazers past their talent level to several 50 win seasons and a WCF appearance. They usually had mediocre forwards around them like Harkless, Aminu, Turner, Crabbe, Vonleh.

The following small backcourts (both members 6’4 and under) have won championships…

Frazier & Monroe
West & Goodrich
Cheeks & Toney
Lowry & VanVleet
White Chocolate & Wade
Williams and Johnson
Thomas & Dumars

Then you have others off the top of my head like Harper and Starks, Payton and Hawkins, and Iverson and Snow that made it to the Finals. shyt back in the day before Jordan prototyped the SG body the league was littered with small backcourts and SG’s who were only 6’2-6’4.

The game has changed and is dominated by wings now. The only players you listed that can apply are Lowry and FVV who were a) both defensive stalwarts and b) both sometimes the third and 4th options next to a top… 3? player in the league at the time. They are the exception, not the rule. Donovan being our best player, while Brunson is our second best player has a ceiling with no ability to maneuver past it. We won’t have cap space to get a real star. We won’t have assets to trade for one either, (unless we get a great deal for Donny).

If you told me we could somehow have Brunson, Mitchell and KD than I’m rolling. But other than that I can wait and rock with what we got.

 

[JMurder]

The Knicks don't wanna "rebuild" though, we've been waiting for a proper rebuild since Melo left, and most of us wanted one even before then. I would never accuse any Knicks fan of at least 10 years of being impatient; we didn't just put up with the team being bad, we put up with aimless mediocrity. At this point I just want the franchise to just commit to a direction, rather than continuing to accumulate middling picks that merely amount to rotation players and nothing more.

You're correct about that but they want a path to the championship by building assets and being patient. Saying "let's get this player so we can make the playoffs and figure it out (or not) later" flies in the face of that. I can only imagine if we were actually trying to rebuild and weren't prioritizing winning games while asset building.

If you're trying to be a perennial contender, I don't think Brunson/Mitchell gets you there. So you set your price accordingly, which means keeping enough assets to acquire another big piece or to change the roster in case the undersized pairing flops (I picture big backcourts like Boston beating them consistently).

But if you can get Donovan Mitchell...you've gotta at least try. Especially since most of the competition is either:
a) holding less assets
b) focused on other options like Kyrie or KD
c) run by Pat Riley who Danny Ainge hates and would probably love to screw over

But drive a hard bargain and be prepared to hold on until the next available star pops up...it rarely takes long. I'm waiting on SGA rumors and think he'll cost less.

This