"Death to the Pessimistic State of Mind" - Nas Voice: NYK '23 Pre-Season Thread

[ikbm]

We're not talking about any of the same shyt, down to you saying something about Randle for #4 - you got me confused with someone else.

I haven't even laid out any actual thoughts of a deal, beyond saying I'd like to see a move for a 2nd lotto pick and would be down with moving Barrett if it meant keeping #11. What's hyperbolic about saying RJ isn't leading us anywhere, so why not use our best value asset to reshape the roster?

What's hyperbolic about not wanting to pay someone you just called a #2 or #3, #1 money?

So why don't I just answer the first question you asked, before you started rambling and answering for me - resetting the youth for me means, for fukking once, actually doing a rebuild centered on developing and establishing our youth.

Reset the focus to Obi, IQ and Grimes and this years draft class. Get rid of our expensive vets for whatever assets we can get. Build around a young core, legitimately, without mercenary vets to take their minutes and waste their rookie scale contract. Give them at least a full year with the keys so we can really see what they have to offer. Not paying guys like Barrett long term #1 money when he hasn't had #1 responsibility for more than 3 months in 3 seasons. Not paying Mitch when he hasn't proven to be healthy consistently. Get a legitimate idea of what we have from our youth so we can better evaluate and better position ourselves to get or develop a real franchise player through the draft, trade or free agency.

See if NO would take RJ and Cam for #8, Trey Murphy and a future picks, let's say. That's a team loaded with assets that would likely bite at the opportunity to make Zion happy by bringing his Duke teammates on board, that we could get a solid return on and can flip for more. I'm not talking high lotto, I'm talking after the top 5, where the team getting Barrett should be giving us back more value, not a 1:1 swap.

Sochan is an example and presents a skillset I like, but there's no gassing dude up here. He's considered one of the best defensive prospects in the draft and can guard multiple positions with good size. That's all I see him as right now. He's someone I'd want to have when competing against a team like Boston. But my point is to move on from what we know won't work or will be expensive as fukk to invest in with a small sample size. I'm not talking straight 1:1 transaction, I'm talking addition by subtraction. I'm talking avoiding paying big money for talent that won't take us anywhere.

Moving Barrett and Randle for pennies on the dollar won't be pretty in the immediate, but would position us better if we drafted accordingly and actually played and developed our young talent from jump.

That's all I've wanted, but it'll never happen, so I'm typing all this shyt out for nothing too.

Lmao all these deals you creating are so farfetched and unrealistic its hilarious.
#3 players in this league MAKE MONEY. miss me with this warped logic. anyone who is a 2 or 3 makes damn near...or exactly max money.
resetting the focus on players who have proven even LESS than rj and are OLDER than rj lol
are the thunder not focusing on rebuilding with youth.... they gave SGA a damn max where do you get on that paying rj will cripple us when the league cap is continuously going up. he wont even be making a max anyway. The only way paying rj hurts us is if we have dog shyt contracts like fournier and randle on the books. you cant just say get rid of our expensive vets and not pay ANYONE....a cap floor exists
and frankly I dont see any team in the top 5 sacrificing a pick for the right to pay rj. rj is the help. find your star some how else cause these unrealistic deals are mind numbing
whats hyperbolic is thinking the pelicans would trade #8 for two guys they would have to pay that are wings when they're already LOADED at wing with two rookie scale guys that are prototypical 3 and D guys they'd take over rj and cam as complementary pieces for BI and ZION(trey and herb jones)....especially when THEY ARE MAXING ZION on top of paying BI max money and CJ mccollum is making a ton of money. you make these deals like these teams dont have their own cap scenarios and team fits to worry about.
subtracting RJ does nothing for this team. Subtracting julius does

also sochan presents literally no skillset that presents as conducive to an offensive game at this level yet unless you wanna wait 5-6 years for him to become some sort of jerami grant/draymond hybrid
sochan will come here guard a bunch of positions and not be able to shoot a lick from anywhere on the court or create his own offense. you need players that play both ways to compete with the celtics unless you think scoring 75 points is the wave.
he's an interesting prospect for how smart he plays on the defensive end his so raw and unrefined on offense we would have to wait 2-3 years to hope he can have anything consistent in his game. not sold on him. I wouldnt even take him with my 11th pick.

 

[Daniel.]

Lmao all these deals you creating are so farfetched and unrealistic its hilarious.
#3 players in this league MAKE MONEY. miss me with this warped logic. anyone who is a 2 or 3 makes damn near...or exactly max money.
resetting the focus on players who have proven even LESS than rj and are OLDER than rj lol
are the thunder not focusing on rebuilding with youth.... they gave SGA a damn max where do you get on that paying rj will cripple us when the league cap is continuously going up. he wont even be making a max anyway. The only way paying rj hurts us is if we have dog shyt contracts like fournier and randle on the books. you cant just say get rid of our expensive vets and not pay ANYONE....a cap floor exists
and frankly I dont see any team in the top 5 sacrificing a pick for the right to pay rj. rj is the help. find your star some how else cause these unrealistic deals are mind numbing
whats hyperbolic is thinking the pelicans would trade #8 for two guys they would have to pay that are wings when they're already LOADED at wing with two rookie scale guys that are prototypical 3 and D guys they'd take over rj and cam as complementary pieces for BI and ZION(trey and herb jones)....especially when THEY ARE MAXING ZION on top of paying BI max money and CJ mccollum is making a ton of money. you make these deals like these teams dont have their own cap scenarios and team fits to worry about.
subtracting RJ does nothing for this team. Subtracting julius does

also sochan presents literally no skillset that presents as conducive to an offensive game at this level yet unless you wanna wait 5-6 years for him to become some sort of jerami grant/draymond hybrid
sochan will come here guard a bunch of positions and not be able to shoot a lick from anywhere on the court or create his own offense. you need players that play both ways to compete with the celtics unless you think scoring 75 points is the wave.
he's an interesting prospect for how smart he plays on the defensive end his so raw and unrefined on offense we would have to wait 2-3 years to hope he can have anything consistent in his game. not sold on him. I wouldnt even take him with my 11th pick.

1.) I literally said OUTSIDE of the top 5 and you respond by saying no team in the top 5 would trade to pay for RJ.

2.) I'm proposing trading RJ and Cam for Trey and picks and your response is why would they for RJ when they have guys like Trey. You're making it hard to think you're reading what you're responding to. But yes, they may not want to trade to pay for him as well, so thats an obvious potential issue.

3.) Who said anything about cripple? I said I don't want to invest #1 money on a player that hasn't been given #1 opportunity until the last 3 months of last year. I don't give a shyt if #3s make money, I don't think it's smart to invest major money into RJ at this point, so yes, I'd want to move him before we do.

4.) Who said not pay anyone? I'm saying focus on the youth. Is there a shortage of short term, trash contracts for players on their last legs that we can absorb for assets to hit that floor, or to swap for our longer term deals so we can focus on our younger guys? Did that stop happening in the league? Obviously, our coach doesn't do that shyt and the vets will play over youth because our coach is what he is, but I'm talking in theory here. What I'd like to see. What I wish would happen.

5.) Focus on players that have shown promise that are still on their rookie deals for another 2-3 years to see what they bring, over RJ who's up for an extension and will command top dollar? Yes.

6.) I'm aware Julius going would do more for this team I want Julius gone. And Fournier. And Noel. And Rose. And Burks. I want all those contracts gone for assets and expirings. It's just obvious RJ is our best asset, as he will likely bring back more, so I'm talking about him within the context of the draft. But we need someone to bail us out to get rid of Randle. We need someone to bail us out to get rid of Forunier. Noel, Burks and Rose can all be moved as they're essentially expirings that could help a playoff team and yield a late 1st rounder or 2nd rounders. But Barrett is the asset that can yield the best return, so I'm discussing him. If there was a way to do all that, and get a 2nd lotto pick and keep Barrett, I'd be cool with that too. But odds are we can't, so I'm cool with moving on from him.

7.) You don't like Sochan as a prospect. Cool. I do.

 

[Tim Dripcan]

Thank goodness that certain so called Knicks posters on here are not our GM

Terrible trade proposals

 

[Lucha Vandross]

Swap Obi for JU in that trade scenario. Dame would want somebody established to run with.

 

[Wargames]

I actually think there is a underrated option at #11 but I am not gonna say shyt until draft night to avoid jinxing it.

Also I’ve been a proponent of moving up, but these scenarios are crazy for a swap.

Also on the low I think this draft might be pretty weak. I can’t think of any draft recently where teams were openly talking about trading out or down weeks ahead of the draft, teams have multiple picks and aren’t bragging about it, and the Nets let the 76’ers just keep the pick so they can try again next year. Also teams are working out everybody, not even guys in their range. It means they are looking for something good.

The Knicks might legit move down if they can attach a player like Fournier to it.

My prediction.

Knicks trade: Pick #11, and Fournier to the Hornets
Knicks get: Pick #13, Pick #15, and Gordon Hayward

 

[RickyGQ]

I actually think there is a underrated option at #11 but I am not gonna say shyt until draft night to avoid jinxing it.

Also I’ve been a proponent of moving up, but these scenarios are crazy for a swap.

Also on the low I think this draft might be pretty weak. I can’t think of any draft recently where teams were openly talking about trading out or down weeks ahead of the draft, teams have multiple picks and aren’t bragging about it, and the Nets let the 76’ers just keep the pick so they can try again next year. Also teams are working out everybody, not even guys in their range. It means they are looking for something good.

The Knicks might legit move down if they can attach a player like Fournier to it.

My prediction.

Knicks trade: Pick #11, and Fournier to the Hornets
Knicks get: Pick #13, Pick #15, and Gordon Hayward

I’d do that in a heart beat.

 

[storyteller]

I actually think there is a underrated option at #11 but I am not gonna say shyt until draft night to avoid jinxing it.

Also I’ve been a proponent of moving up, but these scenarios are crazy for a swap.

Also on the low I think this draft might be pretty weak. I can’t think of any draft recently where teams were openly talking about trading out or down weeks ahead of the draft, teams have multiple picks and aren’t bragging about it, and the Nets let the 76’ers just keep the pick so they can try again next year. Also teams are working out everybody, not even guys in their range. It means they are looking for something good.

The Knicks might legit move down if they can attach a player like Fournier to it.

My prediction.

Knicks trade: Pick #11, and Fournier to the Hornets
Knicks get: Pick #13, Pick #15, and Gordon Hayward

I usually have a lot of fun evaluating draft talent, but this year's grouping feels loaded with red flags and question marks. I don't see the standouts that I'd be hype on after Ivey. There are prospects I'd like, but none that I'd be really excited for. Even my foreign prospects looks have been pretty dry (Gabriele Procida is the only one that really caught my eye because he's got a good frame, can shoot, and sneaky athleticism in space).

I'd take 13 and 15 with Hayward though. Maybe try to trade back or out from there.

 

[Wargames]

I usually have a lot of fun evaluating draft talent, but this year's grouping feels loaded with red flags and question marks. I don't see the standouts that I'd be hype on after Ivey. There are prospects I'd like, but none that I'd be really excited for. Even my foreign prospects looks have been pretty dry (Gabriele Procida is the only one that really caught my eye because he's got a good frame, can shoot, and sneaky athleticism in space).

I'd take 13 and 15 with Hayward though. Maybe try to trade back or out from there.

Yeah I am getting 2019 vibes where there will be some good players but it’s not who fans think it will be. This year’s draft being blah makes sense because the last 2 years draft’s was deep as fukk. Knicks are lucky to be at #11 cause I don’t think it’s going to be much there in the 20’s. Teams are damn near working out everybody because they probably ain’t seeing much overall.

 

[BujuBoombastic]

I’d like to see Knicks draft Kai Sotto in the second round
Kid is that skilled
I don’t he’ll be on the broad for y’all

 

[Peter Popoff]

Watching Wiggins play tonight, I'd reconsider trading RJ. He needs Randle salary and there's no one out of the rookies worth trading up for in this draft. I'd sit at 11 and draft a stretch big. We got point guards.

 

[Redguard]

Knick brehs Randle has to go.

The league needs to see Dominican Amare.

 

[storyteller]

I’d like to see Knicks draft Kai Sotto in the second round
Kid is that skilled
I don’t he’ll be on the broad for y’all

I mentioned him the other day as a draft and stash, swing for the fences type of pick. I see him undrafted in a lot of mocks, but I don't see teams passing on a 7'2 player with that mobility for 60 picks. By 45-60 range, he's worth the risk easily.

Yeah I am getting 2019 vibes where there will be some good players but it’s not who fans think it will be. This year’s draft being blah makes sense because the last 2 years draft’s was deep as fukk. Knicks are lucky to be at #11 cause I don’t think it’s going to be much there in the 20’s. Teams are damn near working out everybody because they probably ain’t seeing much overall.

I feel the same way. It looks like teams might start swinging at mid-majors and foreign talent because they've been underwhelmed. The only riser I see right now is Branham (he's good) and there are a couple I'm surprised didn't get a late bump (Beauchamp and Rollins).

 

[Wargames]

I mentioned him the other day as a draft and stash, swing for the fences type of pick. I see him undrafted in a lot of mocks, but I don't see teams passing on a 7'2 player with that mobility for 60 picks. By 45-60 range, he's worth the risk easily.


I feel the same way. It looks like teams might start swinging at mid-majors and foreign talent because they've been underwhelmed. The only riser I see right now is Branham (he's good) and there are a couple I'm surprised didn't get a late bump (Beauchamp and Rollins).

Yeah Branham might be it. Though who knows, I feel the same level of Meh for most these guys. Beauchamp is working with team who have the top 10 picks. So once again a clear sign these teams are not happy with this year’s draft class. I like Beauchamp but most years he isn’t even sniffing a workout with any lottery teams.

 

[storyteller]

Yeah Branham might be it. Though who knows, I feel the same level of Meh for most these guys. Beauchamp is working with team who have the top 10 picks. So once again a clear sign these teams are not happy with this year’s draft class. I like Beauchamp but most years he isn’t even sniffing a workout with any lottery teams.

Yeah, I give him high marks for upside because of frame and wingspan. The few movers we've seen all seem like measurements guys...Wingspans and hand sizes are dominating prospect discussions. That's not exactly out of the ordinary, but usually it's paired with tape or specific plus-skills. It's all wingspan and motor hype this year.

I think that's why I'm landing on Procida as my biggest potential sleeper. Size, good form, hiding athletic dunks on his tape...and since I've got less video to watch compared to other prospects so the blemishes are hiding.

 

[the elastic]