"Death to the Pessimistic State of Mind" - Nas Voice: NYK '23 Pre-Season Thread

[Wargames]

How yall think the Knicks will do next year my fellow Coli Knick brehs ?

Leon Rose letter to season ticket holders mentions the young core and Thibs a few times so I think they go young.

I think they are a playin team at least next year and might surprise people and sneak back into the 6-4 position. Randle and Thibs as a duo really were bad and Randle is probably out of here over the summer to be the second banana on some other team.

 

[Peter Popoff]

Most fans around the league know the deal

Him being left off this list is no mistake

Yea as much as I lowkey like RJ, the other rookies could just as easily produce those numbers at a better efficiency. It's just the coaching that's trash and the lineup around him that forces him to drive to the open lane committing those foul shots.

He doesn't look as good playing with actual talent around him though.

 

[Knicksman20]

Old article

The 5 reasons Tom Thibodeau was fired, ranked


The whole article is interesting but here are some highlights which should sound eerily familiar to us:

5. Bulls fetishism
"The whole Timberbulls thing is a good joke, but it’s also an indictment of Thibodeau’s lack of creativity. The fact that Minnesota under Thibodeau has signed so many old former Thibodeau-era Bulls is a symbol of the coach’s reliance on familiar crutches instead of bold imagination in chasing supplemental free agents and trade targets.

Signing Derrick Rose in 2017-18 and playing him ahead of young players with growth curves was embarrassing, even if Rose has played well this season. Trading for Butler is a whole ‘nother matter (see No. 4 on this list), but then adding Taj Gibson (a great dude and solid role player who didn’t seem to make a lasting impact) and Luol Deng was just silly.

Roster spots are valuable commodities in today’s NBA. Thibodeau never really seemed to respect that."

"But it’s pretty clear that the new NBA offensive reality has rendered Thibodeau’s defensive system weakened and perhaps dead. If a Thibodeau team can’t defend well, what’s the point of all this? This is part of the problem with having such a clear identity and calling card: when it falls apart, you’ve got little to fall back on."

I would suggest reading the whole article

 

[MoneyTron]

Most fans around the league know the deal

Him being left off this list is no mistake

I see people saying he’s good enough for the Knicks to build their roster around but I’m just not seeing it.

You would have to hope he evolves into a Booker/Mitchell-level player at the very least for that to work.

 

[Peter Popoff]

I see people saying he’s good enough for the Knicks to build their roster around but I’m just not seeing it.

You would have to hope he evolves into a Booker/Mitchell-level player at the very least for that to work.

He's a role player. I see IQ and Toppin being elite level stars though.

They have a nice young core of unselfish players and they need to avoid getting big headed and trading them or throwing big contracts out there.

Also RJ is not bringing 180 mil/5 year numbers to the court every night. They might as well dump him and get Miles Bridges in the worse case scenario, 160 for 4 years.

Mitch is gone next season so that should go to Obi's contract once it's up.

 

[RickyGQ]

I see people saying he’s good enough for the Knicks to build their roster around but I’m just not seeing it.

You would have to hope he evolves into a Booker/Mitchell-level player at the very least for that to work.

Funny enough, Booker wasn’t a “franchise player” at 21 either. Weird how development works when a franchise is patient with their young star and despite being miscasted for most of the beginning of his career.

 

[MoneyTron]

Funny enough, Booker wasn’t a “franchise player” at 21 either. Weird how development works when a franchise is patient with their young star and despite being miscasted for most of the beginning of his career.

He was in my book. No pun intended. He was a 25/5/5 player in his 3rd year. The team record wouldn’t reflect that but he was improving at a quicker rate than anyone in his draft class. The only real weakness I saw in his game at the time was his defense.

Yall got it though.

 

[JMurder]

He was in my book. No pun intended. He was a 25/5/5 player in his 3rd year. The team record wouldn’t reflect that but he was improving at a quicker rate than anyone in his draft class. The only real weakness I saw in his game at the time was his defense.

Yall got it though.

A FRANCHISE player? Make sure you know what you're saying cause that determines the argument. I don't think anybody considered Booker a franchise player at year 3. Was he on the rise? Yes. Somebody you definitely built your franchise around? No

 

[MoneyTron]

A FRANCHISE player? Make sure you know what you're saying cause that determines the argument. I don't think anybody considered Booker a franchise player at year 3. Was he on the rise? Yes. Somebody you definitely built your franchise around? No

Yes. And the year after that I said he’d be the #1 or #2 best SG in the league if given the team. That was in the middle of Harden’s peak.

You can probably find the posts on here.

I didn’t see any appreciable gaps in his game that were going to prevent him from reaching a high ceiling in today’s shooting/scoring biased NBA.

 

[storyteller]

Yes. And the year after that I said he’d be the #1 or #2 best SG in the league if given the team. That was in the middle of Harden’s peak.

You can probably find the posts on here.

I didn’t see any appreciable gaps in his game that were going to prevent him from reaching a high ceiling in today’s shooting/scoring biased NBA.

Idk about you, but the majority of nba fans weren’t gassing Booker like that. I was hyping Lavine and Booker as candidates to chase before the popped around the league and for both those players I got more “that’s a terrible idea” than anything. Could probably use the search function in old Knicks threads and catch it.

Consensus changes across years and people forget which side of arguments they were on. The three players I got killed for wanting the Knicks to acquire the most were Zach, Booker, and Middleton…I feel pretty vindicated on those calls.

 

[MoneyTron]

Idk about you, but the majority of nba fans weren’t gassing Booker like that. I was hyping Lavine and Booker as candidates to chase before the popped around the league and for both those players I got more “that’s a terrible idea” than anything. Could probably use the search function in old Knicks threads and catch it.

Consensus changes across years and people forget which side of arguments they were on. The three players I got killed for wanting the Knicks to acquire the most were Zach, Booker, and Middleton…I feel pretty vindicated on those calls.

That's true. They weren't.

And I guess we don't know, RJ could take a huge step next year. Can't say it hasn't happened before with other players. I just have my personal reservations about him.

 

[JMurder]

He hasn’t done anything to legitimately be ranked ahead of them on the list.

First of all...the fact that RJ looks for Herro so he can abuse him should tell you enough

 

[RickyGQ]

He was in my book. No pun intended. He was a 25/5/5 player in his 3rd year. The team record wouldn’t reflect that but he was improving at a quicker rate than anyone in his draft class. The only real weakness I saw in his game at the time was his defense.

Yall got it though.

That’s good for you. But he was constantly being compared to the other stars in better situations like Jayson Tatum and pegged as an “empty stats” guy which is just as ridiculous as writing RJ off as an inefficient chucker. I’m not saying RJ will be on Bookers level by no means. But the parallels of upward trajectory in shyt franchises are there. I think RJs floor is a really good second banana. He’s already a very good playmaker, has really good feel for the game and has shown he can take over scoring duties when needed. Whether he’s a franchise, championship level 1a piece has yet to be determined but the tools are all there.

(Btw Knicks brehs, was just listening to KOC of the Ringer make this exact Booker comparison with CP of Knicksfan TV on his Mismatch podcast.)

 

[JMurder]

I wouldn't rush to pay him, decide after we see him lead the team for a full season. The only thing they've gotta do is trade Randle, so that it's clear who the focal point is.

I honestly don't see the point in waiting. They should negotiate and if he won't come off the max then make your decision on what to do with him now. He's not gonna change his mind next year and if you don't believe in him now what does that mean when it comes to negotiations next year? His cap hold is gonna be significant regardless

 

[JMurder]

Well no, he literally was that impactful. He was the number one option on the team and they went 11-11 post-ASB. 24, 6, 3 on a .500 team without the luxury of Ja Morant and Jaren Jackson Jr or Kyle Lowry, Jimmy Butler, and Bam Adebayo to make things easier efficiency-wise. RJ didn't even get to start with a point guard.

*fixed*

Quickley been shutting me up