Controversy warning: Egypt was neither exclusive black, arab, or white

[Mowgli]

You see all these people getting into pissing contests on the net, mostly between the pro-black people and the white supremacists side, cherry picking facts when it suits them best.

Yet, neither of them are completely correct.

Egypt had a total of 31 different dynasties over a 3000 year period. You had black led dynasties such as the Nubian/Kush led dynasties such as the twenty-fifth dynasty
Twenty-fifth Dynasty of Egypt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You also had Macedonian white Greeks rule at one time with Ptolomy's
Ptolemaic dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ancient Egypt was not a mono-racial empire.

Stop acting like it was. That is your PSA for today.

The Egyptian Empire started around 5000 BC and the first what would be considered non-nubians came into the picture around 2600 BC. Rulership switched between Black people, what would would call dark/brown skinned non-blacks who took on black and or mixed wives and ultimately cacs,who did similar towards the End of the empire in the 700's 600's BC.

Its inception was black and lasted for close to 3000 years before everyone else came in and fukked it up basically.

 

[Broke Wave]

You're being an emotional idiot.

You fakkits are also being dishonest and insincere in stating this nuanced difference is ever highlighted.

I made this thread in passing, like I said I'm not data dumping links and shyt because I'm honestly not that vested in drawing out the topic.

I notice that you're a very emotional poster in general by the way. You really shouldn't get this upset over the internet.

Go eat some Baasto and chill.

What a concise rebuttal. Filled with facts and counter arguments. Thanks broski

 

[Dr. Acula]

Heres a tidbit you cac, did you know that the so called "Plotemic Kings" of egypt lived close to TODAY than they didnthe glory days of the middle kingdom?


That means they saw the pyramids and luxor and the sphynix and memphis and were like ancient stuff.

Yes and I know that Greeks in general were very impressed with Egypt and loved Egyptian culture as much as Romans loved Greek culture for example.

You're not telling me anything new. Again chill out

Also I can post my Curlies to prove my blackness if it makes you happy. This is the problem with some people on this forum. You get so emotionally riled up at any sort of counter-narrative that you immediately go on the attack. I never made the mention that Ancient Egypt was not black.

 

[Ol’Otis]

fukk egypt


Songhai Empire tho

i was just reading about songhai

 

[Dr. Acula]

What a concise rebuttal. Filled with facts and counter arguments. Thanks broski

The thing is, we're not even in disagreement. You saw the topic and immediately went on an automatic defensive mode based on past arguments and debates that you're setting up strawmen to attack me. I never claimed Ancient Egypt did not have a black presence.

 

[Dr. Acula]

For some no.

Is this not a well-known fact? I mean, I guess not to those hotep "Open yo third eye" types. .

 

[Blackout]

OP is a fukking idiot


America was never exclusively white either dumbass, but we all know its the white mans world.

Egypt was black in a majority for its glory years and most of its inception. The Arab people didnt even exist during Ancient Egypt. How do you make a thread about Egypt and not quote Chiekh Anta Diop? Or anybody??? Its been proven by numerous sources that the egyptian identity was what we would call black as the mummies have nilolitc dna

They believed and knew their ancestors came from Pwent which is pronounced punt. Puntland is northern somalia, eretria, and parts of Yemen.

There is literally NO EVIDENCE to suggest a single fairskinned majority period or dynastic period before the Plotemic kings. Not one shred of evidence. Everyone neg this dude for the sake of our collective history as black africans.

 

[Dr. Acula]

By the way, lets not act like some people say that Cleopatra was black and get upset about Sophia Loren playing her. If you believe this, then my clarification was for you.

You guys are purposely acting like this narrative doesn't exist. If you argue only about the inception of the Egyptians and its early history. Good for you. However, don't then act like there are not those who are all in as far as the topic being one way or another. Now you're just lying to me and yourselves.

 

[I.AM.PIFF]

Don't know what the obsession is with Egypt only.

Because it's one of the GOAT civilizations ever

 

[Broke Wave]

The thing is, we're not even in disagreement. You saw the topic and immediately went on an automatic defensive mode based on past arguments and debates that you're setting up strawmen to attack me. I never claimed Ancient Egypt did not have a black presence.

But when you say "Ancient Egypt" people think of chariots and mummies and pyramids etc and all that cool stuff happened during periods where Egypt was populated by various African groups which are considered black today. By the time the
Cacs came, it was all ancient folklore to the egyptians themselves too.

 

[MalikX]

I've had this convo at work with whites. Most of them agreed that whites weren't living in AE.

It could have been their liberal white guilt talking but, they were like "white people living in deserts?"

If you keep looking for racists and their opinions, that's all your going to find.

Gods of Egypt and Gods and Kings: Exodus both failed miserably, were panned by critics and criticized heavily on social media.

Obviously alot of white people agreed, otherwise those films would have been profitable. It's the Fox News crowd that's still holding on to their eurocentric lies.

 

[Dr. Acula]

But when you say "Ancient Egypt" people think of chariots and mummies and pyramids etc and all that cool stuff happened during periods where Egypt was populated by various African groups which are considered black today. By the time the
Cacs came, it was all ancient folklore to the egyptians themselves too.

Fair enough I don't disagree but again...

We know those are those who go as far as to say that even the Ptolemys were black. Which is untrue. You guys are stating your own arguments and how you stage the arguments in your individual circumstances but like I said, I'm addressing the fact that there are people who say things like Cleopatra was black. Lets not totally ignore these people don't exist.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Okay I am done f*cking around with that Hotep thread for a whole, now onto serious matters.

@Chicken Pot Pie

No one is saying that Egypt was ALWAYS "black." But during the pre-dynastic period and most of the dynastic periods it was majority "black." Yes there was some Eurasian migrates from the Levant who settled into Lower Egypt/Delta and brought certain domestic livestock. But at that time the delta/lower Egypt was not that developed, but also sparsely populated.

Like I said the only thing that ties people from the delta to people from Asia is trade in goods and again domesticates (both plant and animal). But YET despite the Asian wheat and livestock, interestingly all the terms used for these organisms are native Egyptian and NOT that of non-Egyptian or Semitic. One would think that if a population of immigrants settled in Egypt bringing in their domestic goods that are foreign to the new land they would at least preserve their vocabulary for them. So again there is no proof that dynastic Ancient Egypt was mixed or that there was migrations from the north.

What you are doing OP is just trying to revive the outdated dynastic race theory who Egytologist themselves no longer support. Bio-anthropology seems to show that most of the Ancient Egyptians origin descends from the Upper Nile Valley and the Wet Sahara. Like I always state, the wet Sahara was the incubator for cultures and civilizations in Africa. Many cultural traits seen in Ancient Egypt mostly descends from those found in the Sahara during the Holocene. Especially animal headed humans/gods.

But more importantly Ancient Egyptian culture, especially their cattle culture shows the most similarities with modern Nilotic culture.

Art of the Egyptian Nile flourished much later than that of Saharan and Sudan Africa. The Sahara representations of oxen with discs between their horns is much earlier than those of the cow-goddess Hathor. The hawk delicately carved on the sandstone plaque of Hammada el Guir is much earlier than the ram of Amon [known from the 12th Dynasty onwards]. When Andre Malraux looked at the animal heads at Oued Djera, he considered them to be "forerunners of the Egyptian animal deities." The same no doubt holds for the bird-headed goddess at Jabbaran. Semi-naturalism only appears in Egypt in the Gerzean period and is derived from Saharan ox period carvings ... Egypt had a tremendous influence on the interior of Africa ... but what is even more certain is that the prehistoric civilizations of the Sahara is earlier in time ... It was only from the so-called "historic" period onwards that Egyptian civilization achieved that splendor as a result of which everything is now attributed. But where art and technology is concerned, the focal points were originally in the modern republic of the Sudan, in East Africa, and the Near East. Moreover, the prehistoric Sudan owed much more to southeastern influence that to those from the Near East (1981:676).

Continuing...

Thus, the ancient Egyptian belief that divinity can be manifested in any form has strong pan-Africanist roots. Among cattle-owning societies in Africa, cattle are symbols of wealth and serve to define as well as distinguish status. Old Kingdom tombs depict cattle as large parts of a noble's holdings. Cattle provided the means for forging new relations of cooperation and interdependence. Cattle were valued for milk and cheese, but were occasionally slaughtered for religious offerings (Beidelman 1960; Bloch 1971; Rigby 1969). In common with other African pastoralists, the Egyptians practiced horn deformation on special cattle. Egyptians worshipped cattle as beneficent deities. Deities with bovine aspects echoed the importance of cattle in Egyptian society. Apis, the bull deity of Memphis, was a national deity. A bull with special markings and color was sought and, once located, was enshrined at Memphis with great honor. When the Apis died, he was embalmed with solemn ceremony and buried in the vast catacombs at Saqqara, called the Serapaeum. It should be noted that some ox masks of the Bidjogo peoples of West Africa and Apis bulls have a triangular forehead design. Besides Hathor and Isis, Neith and a lesser-known deity, Bat, occasionally were depicted in bovine form. Cow deities provided milk and nourishment for the pharaoh.

Egyptian myths and stories feature cattle. In the Story of the Two Brothers (Lichtheim 1976:203-210), a pair of brothers are grazing animals, and one brother takes on the appearance of a bull. Cattle formed an important part of the booty in Egyptian and other African military raids on neighboring peoples.The Maasai, for example, believe that God gave them all the cattle in the world. They thus feel that they have strong kinship ties with cattle (Rigby 1992). This culture is well myth of many African societies, in the archaeological record, and in modern African religious and cultural practices. Animal deities and animals, then and now, continue to play a central role in everyday spiritual, cultural, and economic life of African people.

Untitled Document

Now if you study African history and culture you would know which African cultures where cattle is so religiously worshiped and also seen as being economically wealthy by having a lot of them, even to a point of robbing others for them..You would know this if you study African history like I do, but I'll let these images do the talking.



^^^The above I see purely AFRICAN.

Yeah the Ancient Egyptians were "mixed..." Mixed with other Africans that is as Ancient Egypt was a very heterogeneous society of different Africans. Remember different Africans lived in the wet Sahara; ancestors of Nilotic, Afro-Asiatic and Niger-Congo speakers. They further mixed with each other in the Nile Valley. The Egyptian language itself is proof of this.

Now can you PROVE with with peer reviewed sources and not Wikipedia(which is known to be controlled by Eurocentrics and I actually know some who commonly edit the Ancient Egyptian info) that Ancient Egypt was MOSTLY a mixed society with blacks and non-blacks?

 

[Dr. Acula]

Now can you PROVE with with peer reviewed sources and not Wikipedia(which is known to be controlled by Eurocentrics and I actually know some who commonly edit the Ancient Egyptian info) that Ancient Egypt was MOSTLY a mixed society with blacks and non-blacks?

You're attacking an argument I'm not making though. That is the problem.

So what do you expect to say? I'm not disagreeing.

Look up is "Cleopatra is black" and tell me that i'm setting up a straw man or not addressing a misconception that is there.

Perhaps this doesn't make a sexy topic because there is no debate to be had. I made this topic inbetween a piss. Not that invested in it. Not my fault you got excited and made it a featured thread because you thought this would be the same 31 page debate thread of times past

 

[Ol’Otis]

I've had this convo at work with whites. Most of them agreed that whites weren't living in AE.

It could have been their liberal white guilt talking but, they were like "white people living in deserts?"

If you keep looking for racists and their opinions, that's all your going to find.

Gods of Egypt and Gods and Kings: Exodus both failed miserably, were panned by critics and criticized heavily on social media.

Obviously alot of white people agreed, otherwise those films would have been profitable. It's the Fox News crowd that's still holding on to their eurocentric lies.

that and the movies were just horrible

thought it was a got damn parody