Controversy warning: Egypt was neither exclusive black, arab, or white

[Samori Toure]

This guy is out of control. Not once, in the first 2000 years of existance, has any custom from Canaan been put in a positive light on Kemetic Walls, scrolls, artifacts, and temples.

In fact, almost all images of them look like this

Look at those arabs in their walled cities trembling at the dark Kemetic gods!

Sit your cac washing ass down

The dude is retarded. He doesn't even know where these places are that he is claiming for Europe.

 

[Thabo]

@Thabo

Stop trolling and making crat up. Either post cite some sources that support your claims or bounce out of this thread.

I can tell that that you're trolling because funny enough you're trying to base people in this thread who have an interest for Ancient Egypt. You tell them to focus on West African history like you are the ambassador of what African-Americans can study. When members on this thread say they have an interest in Mali and Timbuktu you not only further base them for their interest and but try to claim Mali and Timbuktu was some black hating states that mostly enslaved black people. Also ignoring the fact that AA's have a good amount of Mandinka ancestry, the same Mandinkas who founded the Mali Empire.

But that's not the point. The point is your lying. Yes, Timbuktu was founded by Tuareg Berbers, by then it was just a small trading post in the desert. It was later conquered and mostly controlled by Mandinka people. The Timbuktu that we know today was created by Mandinka people. The rich libraries, universities and architecture.

But you trying to say that Timbuktu is not apart of "black Mali", but Azawad is even more idiotic and hilarious. What the hell is a "black Mali." How can anyone take you serious after that? Azawad was a SHORT-LIVED rebel state in Northern Mali by Tuaregs. Back then there was never an Azawad. During both Mali and Songhai Timbuktu was always controlled by "black Malis" lol, since they had a foot in the government, education, politics and trade. Tuaregs barely had any influence beyond nomadic traders and personal armies for the Western Sudanic kings. The people of Timbuktu was described mostly as BLACK by scholars and travelers like Ibn Battuta.

So what the hell are you getting at?

And the Mali Empire was not "Arab based." Are you silly? The only thing they adopted by Arabs were the religion and writing system. Popular to common belief, The Mali empire was majority indigenous beliefs if I remember correctly. It was mainly the elites who were Muslim, even still Islamic beliefs in Mali were mixed with traditional African beliefs and the King did not force people to convert to Islam.



Read more at: Ancient Africa for Kids: Empire of Ancient Mali


Hell heres Ibn Battuta explaining how liberal Mali's Islam was compared to Islam of Arabs and other Muslims. For example women did NOT have to wear veils and had a lot of say.


Ibn Battuta in West Africa

But it gets worse with you... You're claim that Mansa Musa was an Arabized black man who enslaved his people is your biggest lie yet. Yes, Mansa Musa was a devout Muslim, but he cared for his people and invested A LOT into his empire, but I'll get to that later.

First off, most of the slaves in the Mali Empire and in Timbuktu were prisoners of war or slaves that were imported like some Turkish slaves.

"Ibn Bhutta, who lived in West Africa for some years during the Mid-14th century, reported that the Mansa of Mali had an elite bodyguard of 300 slave recruited soldiers. These Mamluks are believed to have included Turks and other Northerners, perhaps even some Europeans"....
From Historical Atlas of the Islamic World, by David Nicolle

"It is interesting to note the great demand of the Mali people for Turkish, Ethiopian, and other slave-girls, and also for eunuchs and Turkish boys. The slave trade thus went in both directions."
- The Cambridge history of Africa: From c. 1600 to c. 1790, pp 90

In the 1300's al~Umari wrote that behind the mansa of Mali's throne "stand some thirty Turkish [Mamluk] or other mercenaries, purchased for him in Cairo. One of them holds a silk parasol in his hand, surmounted by a cupola and a gold bird representing a sparrow hawk." Translation by D.T. Niane.

Yeah these people all the way from Cairo, Europe, Ethiopia and Turkey are SOOOOOOO Mansa Musa's people.

Lets not even get into the fact that Mali's economy wasn't even based on slavery like say Kanem, but gold and salt, since around that time Mali controlled 2/3 of the worlds gold supply. But getting to more important facts. During Mansa Musa's dsays no black slaves were even linked to the Trans Sahara Slave trade.

"Except for the Zandj (black slaves) from lower Iraq, no large body of blacks historically linked to the trans-Saharan slave trade existed anywhere in the Arab world ... The high costs of slaves, because of the risks inherent in the desert crossing, which would have not permitted such a massive exodus ... In this connection, it is significant that in the Arabic iconography of the period, the slave merchant was often depicted as a man with a hole in his purse. Until the Crusades the Muslim world drew its slaves from two main sources: Eastern and Central Europe (Slavs) and Turkestan. The Sudan only came third. " - Africa from the Seventh to Eleventh Century, UNESCO, 1988

So lose us with the lying BS. Mansa Musa was a king that was noted for caring for his people and kingdom. And the people actually saw themselves as superior to non-Sudanese(black people), but thats not an important part. The important thing was that Mansa Musa not only cared for his people, but invested in his people and his kingdom.


Website Disabled




West Africa Before the Colonial Era: A History to 1850

WOW...What a self-hating Arabized c00n allowing indigenous black religions in his court.

But its cute how Islamic African kingdoms/states automatically get assumed with enslaving their own people and being solely based on slavery, yet coastal non-Islamic West African states who's economies were solely based on slavery never does.

Slavery and the Kingdoms of Oyo, Dahomey and Asante

Should AAs too ignore these West African states? Funny you didn't mention them on your little troll jihad on Islamic West African states.

Why the heck should AAs or ANYONE for that matter listen to you on African history when you yourself don't have a clue on African history...

First of all lets get things straight here. Modern mali was a creation by french colonialists

This video perfectly explains the difference between Azawad and Mali.
Not arab based yet they adopted arab names and religion, who's the fool here?
They didn't force them to convert but the jizya tax was coercion enough.

Who are you trying to fool with Malian slavery? BBC NEWS | World | Africa | Uncovering Mali's hidden slavery
So Sudan came third but slavery wasn't a big deal okay

Black Muslims are on some serious denial its scary. Islamic slavery wasn't a big deal but I'm the one clueless on African history.

 

[Thabo]

You don't have to get deep into it. The character knows exactly what he's doing. When people mention that they have an interest in West African states like Mali/Timbuktu, suddently those states are not only no longer West African but also no longer black or Arabized black.

He claims AAs have an obsession with Egypt yet ignores Cheikh Anta Diop a well known AFRICAN historian and anthropologist who can be argued breaking down the doors for arguments for a black Egypt.

Cheikh Anita Diop was a muslim apologist, he was born one. My response

 

[Thabo]

This guy is out of control. Not once, in the first 2000 years of existance, has any custom from Canaan been put in a positive light on Kemetic Walls, scrolls, artifacts, and temples.

In fact, almost all images of them look like this

Look at those arabs in their walled cities trembling at the dark Kemetic gods!

Sit your cac washing ass down

 

[Thabo]

I see that you're picking at the corpse.

Nope I'm still alive and kicking.

 

[Thabo]

They "talk" about it. They do not make it a distinguishable part of their life.

You want evidence. Link me 5 movies about anything not related to vikings, romans, or greeks.

"and don't try to establish a desperate link to Egypt."

Sure don't.

Indigenous Egyptians banned that movie. Egypt bans 'inaccurate' Exodus film - BBC News

 

[MegaManX]

Indigenous Egyptians banned that movie. Egypt bans 'inaccurate' Exodus film - BBC News

What is your point? I didn't say anything about the inhabitants of egypt. You might as well say Japanese banned that movie for how relevant the statement is.

 

[yates]

And what is that pic supposed to prove you moron?

Black people in Africa range from every complexion from light brown to black skinned. But we damn sure do not get olive skinned, the complexion the Egyptians consistently depicted middle easterners with:

And the Nubians themselves were not a monolith you clown. Many images show Nubians and Egyptians virtually indistinguishable from each other:

Those are Egyptian and Nubian soldiers.

You're dense as shyt. Talking bout Egyptians were a middle eastern culture, yet they didn't speak a Semitic language, didn't have Semitic names and didn't follow Semitic customs such as their religions.

Ain't it funny how ancient Egypt was established at the part of Egypt as far away from the Sinai peninsula as possible, right next to Sudan

The fukk outta here yo

 

[Joe Sixpack]

Egyptians didn't even call themselves "Egyptian" or their land Egypt.

They called it Khem or Khemet which means BLACK or Land of the Blacks

 

[Sonni]

Timbuktu is not part of black Mali. Ever heard of Azawad and their slavery of blacks from the South. Step your knowledge game up.

Some are just trolling but you are something else. It is clear that you have no idea what you're talking about. Just leave it already.:lol:


Check the facts on the ground the land these Tuareg thugs claim is a region which is multi-ethnic.
Biggest Tuareg majority towns are Kidal(pop. 25000), Menaka(pop 15000), the rest are miniscule villages like Tessalit (population 5800) for instance :lol:
What right have a minority Tuaregs to exclude the other children of this region to claim it exclusively Tuareg homeland??? These are images of northern Mali these last years. I guess all the Non-Tuareg in these images are colonists sent in by the evil black Malian genocidal regime. :lol:

GAO, capital of ''Azawad the Tuareg homeland'' :lol::lol:







TOMBOUCTOU, 333 islamic saints of all ethnicities yet this is suppose to be a non-black city :lol::lol:








BOUREM, a typical northern non black lmao town. :lol::lol:






learn Malian history. There are a 1000 facts that prove Northern Mali has NEVER been exclusively Tuareg territory and thus there is no basis for Tuareg autonomy. For instance in Timbuktu the 333 saints are of Fulani, Mande, Arab, Tuareg and Songhai origin not exclusively Tuareg.
Ibn Battuta, Abdrahmane Al Sadi, Leo Africanus, Mungo Park, Mawlay Qasim Ibn al-Mukhtar, Gordon Laing, Al-Umari, Abu-sa'id Uthman ad-Dukkali, Ibn Battuta et Ibn Khaldoun Rene Callie, Heinrich Barth in 1853, Oskar Lenz with the Spaniard Cristobal Benítez all these great historians, explorers and chroniclers of the 14th to the 20 century visited northern Mali and all have described this region as a multi-ethnic Songhai, Arabic, Fulani and Tuareg region in a region the Arab-Berbers from North-Africa called BILAD AS SUDAN which is Arabic for LAND OF THE BLACKS because the majority has been inhabited by blacks who lived in peace with their lighter skinned Saharan Arabs and Tuareg neighbours under the authority of the Ghana empire, Mali Empire, Almoravid empire, Songhai empire(where is Azawad empire :lol. But they’re surely all liars who discriminate the Tuaregs. Nowhere in history is mentioned Azawad or a Tuareg empire in these regions. Azawad which means ''grazing lands'' or something like that means nothing in terms of historical legitimacy. The city they claim to be their capital Gao is founded by Songhai people, inhabited by a majority of Songhai people and has been the capital of the Songhai empire.

 

[Sonni]

@Thabo
The french supported MNLA rebels who are dreaming to break up Mali and will never succeed only represent themselves. They have not been mandated by the Malian Tuareg population let alone the various northern Malians communities of which the Tuareg only form a minority.

There are hundreds of northern Malian senators, mayors, chief administrative officers, members of parliament, ministers of Tuareg and other origin who have been mandated by their people to represent northern Mali and its peoples whether in Bamako or in local governance.

Here’s a small list of some of these mandated people who oppose any independence: Ag Mohamed Houloulou Conseiller du cercle; Alidjé Kader Fatouma CAFO Tombouctou; Bocoum Boucary Allaye, Conseiller du conseil régional de Tombouctou; Cissé Aboubacrine, Président du conseil cercle Tombouctou; Haidara Baba dit sandy, Député; Halle Ousmane Maire; Ibrahim Mohamed Président assemblée régionale; Maïga Diadié Hamadoun Société civile; Maïga Fihouroun Président d’une ONG APROCPA et expert DDR; Ould Ahmed Mohamed Ali Président Ferascom; Ould Elhadj Mohamed Tahar maire Salam; Ould Hasni Mohamed Yahia Commerçant Goundam; Ag Mohamed Elmaouloud Abdoulaye Conseil économique et social - CRT(Réfugié, M’berra Mauritanie); Cissé Amadou Abdoulaye Vice président FPR; Maiga Mahamane Abocar Conseil communal Goundam; Ould sidi Mohamed Baba Maire de Tilemsi; Ould Mohamed Mohamed Fall Président des ressortissants de Goundam; Watengunenat Tacherifte Présidente Association Refugié Tombouctou; Diré Abdoulaye Macko Consultant; Ag Attia Nokh Député; dikko Abdoulaye Albadia Administrateur Civil; Toure Kalil Ibrahim Maire de Diré; Diallo Mamadou Conseil Communal; Soboundou; Cheickna dikko Maire de Léré; Sidi Mohamed Conseil Communal Haribomo Gourma Rharous; Maiga Younoussou Mohamed Ibrahim Elu cercle Gourma Rharous; Sidi Oumar Adiawiakoye Premier Vice Président conseil du cercle de GR Fassala Commune M’Berra; Ould Baddi Lahbib Maire adjoint de Salam; Ag Youssouf Ibrahim Inter Peace Segou; Dembele Siaka Président du conseil régional de Ségou; Ag Malha Mohamed Coordination des camps de réfugiés de M’berra.

So fukk outta here with that french propaganda ''Timbuktu is non-black''.



Even the biggest Tuareg clan(the Imghad) out of the Tuareg minority in the north are patriots fighting against the french plan.
because of the western and especially french media (even though it has diminished these last months) propaganda trying to convince the world that the whole north is pro-independence, just a few pics to showcase the malian tuareg soldiers and GATIA and MAA loyalist self-defence militias formed of Tuareg and Arabs who feel 100% malian and are against any independence, federalism or autonomy. So you can for once see definitely not all Tuaregs are pro-independence and thousands of them are ready to die to defend Mali’s territorial integrity. The militias were formed after numerous attacks and humiliations done by rebel fighters against their civilian communities.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

First of all lets get things straight here. Modern mali was a creation by french colonialists

This video perfectly explains the difference between Azawad and Mali.
Not arab based yet they adopted arab names and religion, who's the fool here?

Why are we flip flopping all over the place? Now who the heck was talking about modern Mali which is a totally entity than Ancient Mali/Mali Empire. Mali Empire and Ancient Timbuktu which we were talking about when you told us to name West African civilizations. Now its Mali Empire after me and others embrassed you claims about Ancient Mali and Timbuktu.

I guess Mansa Musa wasn't the Arabized c00n, after I told you he not only invested a lot in his people but allowed "black" indigenous religions into his court. And he was a Muslim.

And I already told you during the era of the Mali Empire that they still had a significant amount of people who followed indigenous religions and so had indigenous names and STILL DO such as "Keita." You ignored or skimmed through most of what I said in that post.

Stop trolling and bringing up modern day Mali or I'm removing your post.

They didn't force them to convert but the jizya tax was coercion enough.

Who are you trying to fool with Malian slavery? BBC NEWS | World | Africa | Uncovering Mali's hidden slavery

Now what does this have to do with Ancient Mali???

Plus its only going on by Tuareg's who are a nomad minority. Your point? Again, stay on topic we're talking about Ancient Mali. I'm not going to let you derail off. You asked us to name a West African civilization that we had interest in and we named Ancient Mali/Timbuktu.

So Sudan came third but slavery wasn't a big deal okay

Black Muslims are on some serious denial its scary. Islamic slavery wasn't a big deal but I'm the one clueless on African history.

Are you serious? Now we are just speaking about Islam in general? That quote I posted was just to show that black slaves during the time of Mali Empire were not linked during the Trans Sahara Slave trade. No one said Islamic Slavery wasn't a big deal, but it was mostly focused in East Africa and it wasn't certainly as big as the European slave trade. Slaves were the lowest commodities of the Mali Empire, gold, salt and ivory made the Mali Empire much more money than slaves.

More importantly I watched the video and nowhere does it debunk what I said about black slaves not being connected to the Trans Sahara slave trade. First he mentions the Fulani jihads if West Africa which was WAAAAAAY after the Mali Empire, and that's mean most West Africans became Muslims. Next he talks about North Africa, which is irrelevant to what we're talking about.

But he is wrong when he says "Arabs" colonised Sudan when they got their asses kicked in two wars and only married their way in. Then we he goes on to talk about slavery, he talks about slavery of the 18th century bt the Mossi people. Which not only WAAAAAY after the Mali Empire, but also the Songhai Empire.

Not only that by the time of the 18th century the Trans Sahara Trade had already lost its influence due to the finding of the New World!

Where does he state Mali and Songhai empire? Where does he state black slaves being linked to the Trans Sahara trade during the periods of the Mali and Songhai Empire? Like I said Islamic slavery was mostly linked to the Eastern part of Africa and the guy in the video even hints that.

More importantly I like how you ignore and skim over the fact that coastal West Africans who were not Islamic, economies were not only mainly based around slavery but made A LOT off of slavery. I guess that doesn't fit your agenda of slavery only being synonymous to Islamic African kingdoms.

The guy in the video who is Ghanaian should know that the Ashantis economy was solely based off of Islam. Again so you don't ignore it again...

From the 1640s, four inland states near the Gulf of Guinea were growing in wealth and power from the slave trade. The kingdom of Oyo, around 300 kilometers (190 miles) inland, was the most successful of these kingdoms. It benefited from terrain sufficiently unforested and free of the tsetse fly and other disease carrying insects to allow for the breeding of horses. The Oyo kingdom used cavalry effectively in expanding southward where savanna split coastal forest. Oyo forced the coastal kingdom of Allada to pay it tribute, and it gained direct access to trade with Europeans. Oyo was a slave state, and its king used slave labor on his vast farmlands. In wars, Oyo took more slaves than it needed for the royal farms, and it traded them to the Europeans for guns, cloth, metal goods and cowry shells. It traded also with Africans to its north for horses and for more captives for the slave trade. And the kingdom acquired wealth by taxing trade that crossed its territory to and from Hausaland.

Another power in the region was the kingdom of Abomey, which was founded in the early 1600s by the brother of the king of Allada, a coastal kingdom that had grown wealthy from the slave trade. The brother, Do-Aklin, cut off village chiefs from having any say in selecting his successor. Rule in Abomey passed to his grandson, Wegbaja, who consolidated his power – while both Allada and Abomey were paying tribute to the more powerful kingdom of Oyo. In Abomey human sacrifices were used to honor the king's ancestors – the sacrifices usually captives from warfare.

West of Abomey were the Ashanti (Asanti), who were dominated by the Denkera to their southwest, to whom the Ashanti paid tribute. The primary political unit among the Ashanti had been the village, governed by clan elders. In the 1660s, an Ashanti warrior named Osei Tutu grouped clan chiefs around him and formed an alliance with the leading Ashanti religious figure, Anokye. They created a golden stool, representing power and spiritual unity, on which the ruler of the Ashanti was to sit, and they sanctified the golden stool with sacrifices.

Osei Tutu and Anokye extended their power across Ashanti chiefdoms, unifying the Ashanti. And with the power that accrued from this unity, the Ashanti defeated the Denkera and absorbed some of their subject states. These victories gave the Ashanti contact with the Europeans, to whom they sold slaves. And the Ashanti began an expansion inland for more slaves and for gold.

Meanwhile, Oyo cavalry invaded the Abomey four times, but Abomey retained enough power to expand against Allada on the coast. The king of Abomey, Agaja, was interested in buying arms from the Europeans. Conquering Allada in the 1720s gave him access to European trading. The enlarged rule of Agaja became known as Dahomey, and it began to prosper from the sale of slaves to the Europeans.

Slavery and the Kingdoms of Oyo, Dahomey and Asante

Not even Zanzibar made that much wealth on slavery alone...But anyways we have Islamic people like the Mossi and people from Zanzibar and also non-Islamic people from coastal West Africa practicing slavery. Lets not only make ONE group synonymous with slavery.

 

[Thabo]

@Thabo
The french supported MNLA rebels who are dreaming to break up Mali and will never succeed only represent themselves. They have not been mandated by the Malian Tuareg population let alone the various northern Malians communities of which the Tuareg only form a minority.

There are hundreds of northern Malian senators, mayors, chief administrative officers, members of parliament, ministers of Tuareg and other origin who have been mandated by their people to represent northern Mali and its peoples whether in Bamako or in local governance.

Here’s a small list of some of these mandated people who oppose any independence: Ag Mohamed Houloulou Conseiller du cercle; Alidjé Kader Fatouma CAFO Tombouctou; Bocoum Boucary Allaye, Conseiller du conseil régional de Tombouctou; Cissé Aboubacrine, Président du conseil cercle Tombouctou; Haidara Baba dit sandy, Député; Halle Ousmane Maire; Ibrahim Mohamed Président assemblée régionale; Maïga Diadié Hamadoun Société civile; Maïga Fihouroun Président d’une ONG APROCPA et expert DDR; Ould Ahmed Mohamed Ali Président Ferascom; Ould Elhadj Mohamed Tahar maire Salam; Ould Hasni Mohamed Yahia Commerçant Goundam; Ag Mohamed Elmaouloud Abdoulaye Conseil économique et social - CRT(Réfugié, M’berra Mauritanie); Cissé Amadou Abdoulaye Vice président FPR; Maiga Mahamane Abocar Conseil communal Goundam; Ould sidi Mohamed Baba Maire de Tilemsi; Ould Mohamed Mohamed Fall Président des ressortissants de Goundam; Watengunenat Tacherifte Présidente Association Refugié Tombouctou; Diré Abdoulaye Macko Consultant; Ag Attia Nokh Député; dikko Abdoulaye Albadia Administrateur Civil; Toure Kalil Ibrahim Maire de Diré; Diallo Mamadou Conseil Communal; Soboundou; Cheickna dikko Maire de Léré; Sidi Mohamed Conseil Communal Haribomo Gourma Rharous; Maiga Younoussou Mohamed Ibrahim Elu cercle Gourma Rharous; Sidi Oumar Adiawiakoye Premier Vice Président conseil du cercle de GR Fassala Commune M’Berra; Ould Baddi Lahbib Maire adjoint de Salam; Ag Youssouf Ibrahim Inter Peace Segou; Dembele Siaka Président du conseil régional de Ségou; Ag Malha Mohamed Coordination des camps de réfugiés de M’berra.

So fukk outta here with that french propaganda ''Timbuktu is non-black''.



Even the biggest Tuareg clan(the Imghad) out of the Tuareg minority in the north are patriots fighting against the french plan.
because of the western and especially french media (even though it has diminished these last months) propaganda trying to convince the world that the whole north is pro-independence, just a few pics to showcase the malian tuareg soldiers and GATIA and MAA loyalist self-defence militias formed of Tuareg and Arabs who feel 100% malian and are against any independence, federalism or autonomy. So you can for once see definitely not all Tuaregs are pro-independence and thousands of them are ready to die to defend Mali’s territorial integrity. The militias were formed after numerous attacks and humiliations done by rebel fighters against their civilian communities.

Who do you think you are fooling? Operation Serval - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.