Classics Discussion: Mobb Deep & Big Pun

[mobbinfms]

first of all....no

secondly, i never questioned its quality. but a classic is more than just a quality album. what else does it bring to the table in the same way The Infamous did? impact? relevance? influence?

Why does it have to bring something to the table like the Infamous did?
Are you judging every album on that standard?
I thought we agreed that influence wouldn't be a criteria for this discussion?
What are you looking for in terms of impact?
And are you saying that Hell on Earth is/was irrelevant? Expound on that.

 

[mobbinfms]

Murda muzik classic fukk yall

 

[ADP]

why did HOE just miss the mark?

well i guess
drop a gem on em despite having a very dope beat isn''t the most vicious diss, i expected more, when people mention greatest disses of all time only die hard mobb would probably mention it
man down has a slasher movie scene sound that personally annoys me
although i appreciate the production being cohesive it feels like it blends in a little after a while
the peaks of the album aren;t as high as on the infamous, where you go WOOO as soon as certain tracks come on
overall i just simply don;t get that classic feel i get from their previous album, they've tried to recreate it and came very close, maybe im exaggerating but you know how opinions are...

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

Why does it have to bring something to the table like the Infamous did?
Are you judging every album on that standard?
I thought we agreed that influence wouldn't be a criteria for this discussion?
What are you looking for in terms of impact?
And are you saying that Hell on Earth is/was irrelevant? Expound on that.

how is it relevant today? it isn't really brought up in discussion to the extent of surefire classic albums. I'm not necessarily looking for influence.

Ok let's look at it like this.

Remember how you offered this definition of classic to accommodate an album like Liquid Swords? Liquid Swords might not have much influence or whatever, but not only is the quality there, but nowadays it is widely regarded as one of the greatest albums of all-time. It is always in conversation, it is always celebrated etc. So Liquid Swords is classic.

Hell on Earth, to me at least, is in that same category. Quality all there, but why is it not in the Liquid Swords bracket of discussion? You see, I'm not rejecting it entirely, I just want someone to CONVINCE me, because perhaps I am ignorant to what the album brings to the table aside from quality. If we just went off quality projects, we could list 500 classics easily.

 

[mobbinfms]

Ok it did not have the impact like infamous because infamous has shook ones but quality wise HOE is stronger. nikka the verses P was laying, the album was way more consistent, nikka drop a gem on em is a classic diss. How ya'll nikkas gonna say hell on earth isn't a classic without question

HOE is a strange album in that P definitely improved as an emcee, it was without a doubt his peak as a rapper. Hav emerged as a producer who could hold down an entire album, with a new sound, that you could argue is the signature Mobb Deep sound. In other words, on paper, you can make the argument it's better than the Infamous, the Source review actually says this, yet and still, there's no denying that the Infamous has these intangible qualities that make it, not only better, but the greatest album of all time.
It's to me too that 13 people actually voted no.

 

[mobbinfms]

I agree the rapping was better. But I said notwithstanding the quality, which is up there with classic albums, what else does it bring to the table? What impact did it have? What relevance and acknowledgement does it have over time?

Why is it more than just a very dope record?

This is the only question you should be asking.
I'm assuming your argument is that the album has been forgotten over time?
What is the basis for saying that?
Hell On Earth is in that category of classic 90s east coast albums. With the Infamous, OBFCL, Liquid Swords, etc. It may not be a GOAT contender like OBFCL or Illmatic, it's more in the Liquid Swords category.
All the albums in this category are universal classics.
Do you think you can name ten albums in that category better than it?

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

This is the only question you should be asking.
I'm assuming your argument is that the album has been forgotten over time?
What is the basis for saying that?
Hell On Earth is in that category of classic 90s east coast albums. With the Infamous, OBFCL, Liquid Swords, etc. It may not be a GOAT contender like OBFCL or Illmatic, it's more in the Liquid Swords category.
All the albums in this category are universal classics.
Do you think you can name ten albums in that category better than it?

But is it though? That's my point. I don't see it mentioned at all anything past a "near classic" and "dope follow-up" to the Infamous. That's my basis. It's pretty debatable regarding status. I've seen yes and I've seen no, and maybe more no than yes. I might be wrong, which is why I'm hoping someone can shed some light on it.

The purpose of this thread was to nail the CONCRETE classics that cannot be argued. Unfortunately, once Pac got 3 classics, shyt's gone out the window I feel. He probably deserved 2 at most, maybe just 1.

Even if I could name 10 albums, that's not the point. I believe it is up there in quality. I don't even think it's in the Liquid Swords category


But if you're asking whether I believe there are 10 90s East Coast classics better than HOE, I'd say yes.

 

[mobbinfms]

how is it relevant today? it isn't really brought up in discussion to the extent of surefire classic albums

Of course it is.

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

Of course it is.

Sorry man. I'm not changing my stance, I'm not entirely convinced.

I just hope my vote isn't a decider, but atm it is proving to be

 

[mobbinfms]

But if you're asking whether I believe there are 10 90s East Coast classics better than HOE, I'd say yes.

I'm not saying 90s as a whole. Because the East changed so much during that time. I was referring to that classic mid 90s sound exemplified by the albums I mentioned.

Ultimately, it seems you're dug in on this
I guess Mobb is suffering from the opposite of the Outkast problem. Because they have a GOAT contender album that is clearly their best album, their other classic isn't going to get that accumulation effect

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

I'm not saying 90s as a whole. Because the East changed so much during that time. I was referring to that classic mid 90s sound exemplified by the albums I mentioned.

Ultimately, it seems you're dug in on this
I guess Mobb is suffering from the opposite of the Outkast problem. Because they have a GOAT contender album that is clearly their best album, their other classic isn't going to get that accumulation effect

I want it to get a classic rating, but I don't wanna be responsible lmao

I just don't think it's a classic, but it has classic quality. Ah ffs this one is really giving me trouble.

Yeah you could be right about the reverse OutKast problem. Nas kinda has the same issue with Illmatic vs. It Was Written. Idk about IWW classic status, though it is acknowledged much more than HOE. I think HOE is better though.

Mid-90's I could probably name 10, what we talking about 93-96?

The thing is Mobb Deep don't really have a classic 90s sound. They have their own sound. The typical boom bap heavy shyt was signatured by Premo and then groups like B.C.C. and D.I.T.C. Mobb Deep went from jazz-noir boom bap to distorted heavy drums, light strings and haunting piano loops. In many ways, it has a Liquid Swords-esque atmosphere.

 

[LandryFieldsDad]

6 people said the infamous wasn't a classic

Post on the coli brehs

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

6 people said the infamous wasn't a classic

Post on the coli brehs

disgusting.

honestly, is this site anti-Mobb or something? or are there retards operating the computers or what?

 

[BmoreGorilla]

HOE is a strange album in that P definitely improved as an emcee, it was without a doubt his peak as a rapper. Hav emerged as a producer who could hold down an entire album, with a new sound, that you could argue is the signature Mobb Deep sound. In other words, on paper, you can make the argument it's better than the Infamous, the Source review actually says this, yet and still, there's no denying that the Infamous has these intangible qualities that make it, not only better, but the greatest album of all time.
It's to me too that 13 people actually voted no.

I personally think Ps peak as an MC was MM. HOE was the album that put him in elite territory but MM made him a legend. If I'm not mistaken most of the time his voice has been sampled from MM.

As far as production goes in 96 Havoc came into his own. You saw it coming on IWW and we got a whole album of it with HOE. He defined the sound of QB well into the 2000s. Even had Alchemist trying to get down. After that everybody from CNN, Cormega, Tragedy Khadafi, Nature etc. was rhyming over similar production. Nas was the only one to go against the grain. HOE was ridiculously influential.

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

I personally think Ps peak as an MC was MM. HOE was the album that put him in elite territory but MM made him a legend. If I'm not mistaken most of the time his voice has been sampled from MM.

As far as production goes in 96 Havoc came into his own. You saw it coming on IWW and we got a whole album of it with HOE. He defined the sound of QB well into the 2000s. Even had Alchemist trying to get down. After that everybody from CNN, Cormega, Tragedy Khadafi, Nature etc. was rhyming over similar production. Nas was the only one to go against the grain. HOE was ridiculously influential.

This is what I wanted to see.

Can you confirm this? Is there anything I can read? Alchemist saying something? The aforementioned groups referencing it? This could make me swing my vote.