Captain America: Civil War (Official Thread)

[Absolut da poet ®]

kal'el, bruce wayne & Princess Diana

 

[MartyMcFly]

I read maybe the first 8 on a random and enjoyed it. I felt it was my duty - especially given that the notion of Black Spiderman made nerds so mad.

#BlackRadioactiveSpiderBiteExcellence

I'll get over it eventually I guess, although Garfield's Spider-Man is an absolute dikk. Gwen's dad told you stay the fukk away from her with his dying breath and he goes right back to find her. And then he ends up being responsible for her death

And he needs to stop taking off his mask in front of people every five minutes too

That's Pete breh. He's not perfect by any means and he will or used to do ignorant stuff like that all of the time and it's good that it happens because he wasn't born this perfect being who makes no mistakes. He has to be his own worst enemy at times in order to grow up. If Pete just decided to stay away then there'd be no way to show his growth as a kid and as a hero. If he chose not to stay away but didn't feel bad about it, I'd be inclined to agree with you wholeheartedly but he felt bad about it and it clearly affected him. And much like in the comics, Gwen's death is the result of him being careless. I love his spider-man tho man. He's got the perfect blend of wit, humor, intelligence, and charm to pull off Pete. Not to bring up old wounds but Tobey never really played that role right in my eyes. He didn't let Peter grow up and even in movie 3 where he's supposed to be 21 I think, he still acts like he's high school Pete which always bugged me

 

[PlayerNinety_Nine]

That's Pete breh. He's not perfect by any means and he will or used to do ignorant stuff like that all of the time and it's good that it happens because he wasn't born this perfect being who makes no mistakes. He has to be his own worst enemy at times in order to grow up. If Pete just decided to stay away then there'd be no way to show his growth as a kid and as a hero. If he chose not to stay away but didn't feel bad about it, I'd be inclined to agree with you wholeheartedly but he felt bad about it and it clearly affected him. And much like in the comics, Gwen's death is the result of him being careless. I love his spider-man tho man. He's got the perfect blend of wit, humor, intelligence, and charm to pull off Pete. Not to bring up old wounds but Tobey never really played that role right in my eyes. He didn't let Peter grow up and even in movie 3 where he's supposed to be 21 I think, he still acts like he's high school Pete which always bugged me

The character really needs to be part of a universe to contextualise him - that's what I like about the MCU. Time and timelines are put front and centre. Even the X-Men movies have managed to do this in a way that acknowledges it. The original trilogy could have taken place over the course of 3 months, there wasn't a sense of progression to them. 1 & 2 though

Until they start messing with either Sinister Six or a Venom movie, they're doomed to repeat the same mistakes.

 

[MartyMcFly]

The character really needs to be part of a universe to contextualise him - that's what I like about the MCU. Time and timelines are put front and centre. Even the X-Men movies have managed to do this in a way that acknowledges it. The original trilogy could have taken place over the course of 3 months, there wasn't a sense of progression to them. 1 & 2 though

Until they start messing with either Sinister Six or a Venom movie, they're doomed to repeat the same mistakes.

1 and 2 clearly take place a year after each other due to him celebrating a birthday, still being a college freshman, etc. The 3rd takes place a year after that so it's a 3 year span and there is no growth in his character. That's why there's no sense of progression breh none of the characters changed breh. At all. If anything, they all regressed. MJ became more bratty and seemed like she was 16, Pete never grew out of being the high school kid he was, and Harry just became more petulant. Even Aunt May seemed to become more angry in the 3rd one. You have to allow Peter to grow and make mistakes that aren't the cause of him making mistakes due to being wrapped up in some alien symbiote. They wrote themselves into a corner with those movies so the only place to go if you were going to continue was a reboot. I know not everyone was happy they chose to reboot so there was a lot of ill will toward the movie before it came out, but the second pete forgives the guy who killed his uncle and forgives himself for what happened, he's not spider-man anymore. That's the equivalent of Bruce forgiving his parents killer and forgiving himself for letting it happen and saying he's happy.

 

[PlayerNinety_Nine]

1 and 2 clearly take place a year after each other due to him celebrating a birthday, still being a college freshman, etc. The 3rd takes place a year after that so it's a 3 year span and there is no growth in his character. That's why there's no sense of progression breh none of the characters changed breh. At all. If anything, they all regressed. MJ became more bratty and seemed like she was 16, Pete never grew out of being the high school kid he was, and Harry just became more petulant. Even Aunt May seemed to become more angry in the 3rd one. You have to allow Peter to grow and make mistakes that aren't the cause of him making mistakes due to being wrapped up in some alien symbiote. They wrote themselves into a corner with those movies so the only place to go if you were going to continue was a reboot. I know not everyone was happy they chose to reboot so there was a lot of ill will toward the movie before it came out, but the second pete forgives the guy who killed his uncle and forgives himself for what happened, he's not spider-man anymore. That's the equivalent of Bruce forgiving his parents killer and forgiving himself for letting it happen and saying he's happy.

Long and short of it for me, Sony's next Spider-Man movie will have to be flawless to get me to give up any money at all. With those execs though - I don't know if they can pull it off.

 

[MartyMcFly]

Long and short of it for me, Sony's next Spider-Man movie will have to be flawless to get me to give up any money at all. With those execs though - I don't know if they can pull it off.

It won't be flawless breh until someone eats some humble pie which maybe they've done now. Again, I like what they've done but I recognize I'm in the minority and execs don't listen to the minority they listen to everyone else so maybe the last one was the message to them that they need to do something different and possibly let the directors and writers do their job and they just make sure the train doesn't go off the tracks. Marvel's movies are the same way but no one cries foul when a thor movie is meh

 

[PlayerNinety_Nine]

It won't be flawless breh until someone eats some humble pie which maybe they've done now. Again, I like what they've done but I recognize I'm in the minority and execs don't listen to the minority they listen to everyone else so maybe the last one was the message to them that they need to do something different and possibly let the directors and writers do their job and they just make sure the train doesn't go off the tracks. Marvel's movies are the same way but no one cries foul when a thor movie is meh

This is very true, but we know that it feeds into something bigger. There's a Cap 2 or a GOTG to pick up the slack, coming shortly afterwards. That's why I stuck with Agents Of Shield when it was


To me - If Sony was going to be really about it they should have started a Universe with Spider-Man. He's popular enough to be the lynchpin, but the studio lacks the vision to put the pieces together.

Not really surprising if you've read the Sony emails...

 

[MartyMcFly]

This is very true, but we know that it feeds into something bigger. There's a Cap 2 or a GOTG to pick up the slack, coming shortly afterwards. That's why I stuck with Agents Of Shield when it was


To me - If Sony was going to be really about it they should have started a Universe with Spider-Man. He's popular enough to be the lynchpin, but the studio lacks the vision to put the pieces together.

Not really surprising if you've read the Sony emails...

Shyt to me, they messed up by going with the universe at all. There was no need for it. I don't need the spider man stories to feed into some larger narrative or some universe. just keep it simple. That's the problem with everything. It's one thing if you want to tell a story over three movies or however many movies, I can live with that. But this idea of creating a universe where characters are going to spin off in their own direction just doesn't make sense to me unless its needed and it wasn't for them. Just make dope spiderman movies and people will come see them and you'll make your money that way. I'm all for seeing a sinister six movie but I would've been fine without it. Hollywood is going that direction not just due to marvel but because studios are trying to adapt to the way people watch tv and the tv shows we do watch where it's all about season long arcs that play into a larger arc for the whole show and with more and more tv writers and tv directors coming in, that's the way the movies are headed. But its not a one size fits all for everything.

Like this: when they started writing amazing 2, they started backwards from the point of Gwen dying. They knew that's the point they wanted to get to so everything had to feed into that as opposed to working the story from the beginning and then ending up at the conclusion that she should die or will die. When you write backwards, you then start trying to make pieces fit and story fit to serve this point that you've sold yourself on as opposed to letting the story dictate where you should go and even Marvel movies are like that which is why when there's a disappointment (the Thor movies or for some reason Iron Man 3 which apparently people really hate) it's all because they're working backwards and being reverse engineered.

 

[PlayerNinety_Nine]

Shyt to me, they messed up by going with the universe at all. There was no need for it. I don't need the spider man stories to feed into some larger narrative or some universe. just keep it simple. That's the problem with everything. It's one thing if you want to tell a story over three movies or however many movies, I can live with that. But this idea of creating a universe where characters are going to spin off in their own direction just doesn't make sense to me unless its needed and it wasn't for them. Just make dope spiderman movies and people will come see them and you'll make your money that way. I'm all for seeing a sinister six movie but I would've been fine without it. Hollywood is going that direction not just due to marvel but because studios are trying to adapt to the way people watch tv and the tv shows we do watch where it's all about season long arcs that play into a larger arc for the whole show and with more and more tv writers and tv directors coming in, that's the way the movies are headed. But its not a one size fits all for everything.

Like this: when they started writing amazing 2, they started backwards from the point of Gwen dying. They knew that's the point they wanted to get to so everything had to feed into that as opposed to working the story from the beginning and then ending up at the conclusion that she should die or will die. When you write backwards, you then start trying to make pieces fit and story fit to serve this point that you've sold yourself on as opposed to letting the story dictate where you should go and even Marvel movies are like that which is why when there's a disappointment (the Thor movies or for some reason Iron Man 3 which apparently people really hate) it's all because they're working backwards and being reverse engineered.

Iron Man 3, sucked - but they use the larger narrative to bury its shortcomings - and might even be subtly retconned after the one-shot.

 

[MartyMcFly]

Iron Man 3, sucked - but they use the larger narrative to bury its shortcomings - and might even be subtly retconned after the one-shot.

Yeah I still don't get the hate for Iron Man 3. I liked it a lot. Maybe that's because I love Shane Black as a writer and because it felt different than all the other marvel movies we were getting so I appreciated how unique it was. The Mandarin thing didn't bug me because I've never been a huge fan but I respect the cats who love them some mandarin and felt like he was given the shaft but is that one thing enough to say the movie sucked? It had the best story since the first iron man, it had a nice balance of action and humor, it actually told a larger story that was relevant to the world we live in today much like Cap 2, and Downey got to do some different stuff in it from what he had been doing prior

 

[Cat piss martini]

Marvel don't even give em time to re-pour the foundation
before getting ready to crush the buildings again.

 

[hex]

@MartyMcFly
@PlayerNinety_Nine

"With great power comes great responsibility" was in Amazing Fantasy #15, the very first appearance of Spider-Man:

So it's directly tied to the character. The only difference is, they later attributed the quote to a specific character.

Fred.

 

[MartyMcFly]

@MartyMcFly
@PlayerNinety_Nine

"With great power comes great responsibility" was in Amazing Fantasy #15, the very first appearance of Spider-Man:

So it's directly tied to the character. The only difference is, they later attributed the quote to a specific character.

Fred.

Which is what I said breh. I said Peter said it in Amazing Fantasy 15 and then it was later attributed to Ben never actually said it. It was retconned in like @PlayerNinety_Nine said. Only in Ultimate did a character (Ben and Peter's dad) actually say it or some variation of it

 

[Dillah810]

There's still some hope left

Last night a report came in that simultaneously overjoyed and yet broke the hearts of many Spider-Man fans: It turns out that Marvel and Sony Pictures have had talks about bringing the wallcrawler into the Marvel Cinematic Universe, including the Captain America: Civil War movie, but that those discussions had stalled.

While that revelation came via leaked e-mails and documents (more fallout from the Sony hacking scandal) uncovered by The Wall Street Journal, todayLatino Review reports on some additional inside info on the subject.

Marvel Wanted Spidey for Civil War Movie - IGN News
01:19

For starters, LR’s Da7e says his source indicates that the deal Sony ultimately rejected was not a Marvel trilogy of Spider-Man movies that Sony would control. While that was mentioned in The Wall Street Journal’s story last night, what Sony finally passed on was instead a co-production arrangement where Marvel and Sony would split Spidey movie costs 60/40 (Marvel paying the 60%). Yes, Marvel would’ve shouldered more cost, but they also would’ve regained creative control over the character and films. This scenario sounds much more like the kind of deal Marvel’s Kevin Feigewould be interested in.

So that makes more sense in a real-world sort of way, but still, Sony reportedly passed on this approach, preferring to keep Peter Parker and his alter ego in their creative corner. That said, LR’s sources also indicate that Sony Pictures’ parent company is none too pleased about the current situation at the studio and the internal communications and even movies that have leaked out. Additionally, they view “Sony Pictures’s handling of the Spider-Man property as disappointing. … Sony Japan thinks the Marvel deal for Spider-Man is still on the table and they want to renegotiate as a return to quality.” The sources also say that “the 60/40 split” can be negotiated and “Sony Entertainment’s October hard-line stance of wanting creative control is now mostly moot in the eyes of the higher-ups.”

Does Marvel Need Spider-Man for the Civil War Movie? - IGN Keepin' Reel Podcast
13:16

Of course, even if this did somehow happen and Spider-Man became part of the MCU, there are still a ton of questions. For one, what happens to Andrew Garfield? Is the character recast? And what about Amazing Spider-Man producer Avi Arad, who has been a guiding force for Marvel and Spidey on the big screen for years? His relationship with Marvel Studios and Kevin Feige is said to be a frosty one since he left the studio, which certainly can’t help matters.

And as much as we’d all love to see Spidey join the MCU, there’s another question lurking here as well: Why do superheroes have to be part of a shared universe in order to succeed these days? Can’t standalone movies with these characters still be worthy of our attention?

As always, keep it locked to IGN for more on this as we have it.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/12/10/more-on-the-sonymarvelspider-man-situation

 

[hex]

There's still some hope left

I'm at this point. There have a limited window to introduce Spider-Man even if a deal is made, and while we all know who he is, he's obviously had zero presence in the MCU. So him randomly popping up and picking a side won't have much weight without a proper introduction at the very least.

Also Black Panther is meant to be the neutral guy in this version of Civil War....so does that change if they get Spider-Man?

Fred.