Canibus says rappers don't have enough experience to make poetry like his era

[Cadillac]

What else is there to do lyric wise

The rappers now have kicked it forward with the delivery of the raps

theres alot that can be done lyric/writing wise. atleast creatively whether it be using literary devices not oftently used or talked about(like anatsrophe, a somewhat common used technique but not talked about enough in the realm of play on words and stuf), concepts etc.

the problem is hip hop fans, rappers and the culture, loves to limit itself in the world of writing
and its why the genre hasnt really been writing or linguistically innovating in a while

theres only a few rappers really heavy creative writing wise like Lupe, cambatta, etc. but they are ignored by some as just lyrical miracles.(they kinda are, but lupe makes lyrical substance music)

 

[Cadillac]

There is no limit to what can be expressed in poetry but yeah there are limits to what is poetry. Poetry and prose are opposites, prose is not poetry.

theres prose poetry though, granted it hasnt been liked by some purist. But it is accepted in poetry circles and counted as such. Plus the people im advocating for like Face and brought up like lee do not fit the prose.

I agree that it's easy and clear to see who the poetically influenced writers are but a lot of folks conflate any rhyme with poetry, the two aren't the same.

im not conflating rhyme with poetry, the reason i stand that face is poetic is based on his writing, and how he works his way with words to express himself.

 

[FruitOfTheVale]

theres prose poetry though, granted it hasnt been liked by some purist. But it is accepted in poetry circles and counted as such. Plus the people im advocating for like Face and brought up like lee do not fit the prose.


im not conflating rhyme with poetry, the reason i stand that face is poetic is based on his writing, and how he works his way with words to express himself.

The criticism with prose poetry is (mostly) in regards to the structure, not in terms of the actual content.

And strongly disagree with the idea that Face's lyrics don't fit prose, the majority of them do as do all of the examples I already shared above.

 

[Cadillac]

I'll admit Jay-Z isn't the best example, he had a few tracks on Rreasonable Doubt I thought of that are more poetic than most but in general yeah you're right he doesn't write poetically.

In general though Scarface's writing isn't poetic like that either. He has poetic verses from time to time but most of the time his writing style is more like these verses:



Most of his lyrics are written like he's talking to you and are meant to be taken literal which makes it more prosaic than poetic.

Life.. yeah.. uhh..
Now as I walk into the studio to do this with Jig'
I got a phone call from one of my nigs
Said my homeboy Reek, he just lost one of his kids
And when I heard that I just broke into tears
And see in the second hand; you don't really know how this is
But when it hits that close to home you feel the pain at the crib
So I called mine, and saddened my wife with the bad news
Now we both depressed, counting our blessings 'cause Brad's two
Praying for young souls to laugh at life through the stars
Loving your kids just like you was ours
And I'm hurting for you dog; but ain't nobody pain is like yours
I just know that heaven'll open these doors
And ain't no bright side to losing life; but you can view it like this
God's got open hands homie, he in the midst.. of good company
Who loves all and hates not one
And one day you gon' be with your son
I could've rapped about my hard times on this song
But heaven knows I woulda been wrong
I wouldn'ta been right, it wouldn'ta been love
It wouldn'ta been life, it wouldn'ta been us
This can't be life

a writer can have both, Pac and Nas had prosaic type verses to

 

[Cadillac]

The criticism with prose poetry is (mostly) in regards to the structure, not in terms of the actual content.

yeah i know prose is almost like any other piece of literature like say a novel or just writing in your journal. im saying tho that face and lee dont fit that description of prose

And strongly disagree with the idea that Face's lyrics don't fit prose, the majority of them do as do all of the examples I already shared above.

i gotta disagree with you on that because he does have poetic verses and songs. and are two of my favs but they have had prosaic songs.

Theres nothing poetic really about Ambitionz Az a Ridah amazing Pac song, but its just a dope gangsta/brag track.

if anything face having prosaic songs should be celebrated to show his versatility as it shows he can do both

 

[ISO]

theres alot that can be done lyric/writing wise. atleast creatively whether it be using literary devices not oftently used or talked about(like anatsrophe, a somewhat common used technique but not talked about enough in the realm of play on words and stuf), concepts etc.

That doesn’t make for good music

 

[FruitOfTheVale]

Life.. yeah.. uhh..
Now as I walk into the studio to do this with Jig'
I got a phone call from one of my nigs
Said my homeboy Reek, he just lost one of his kids
And when I heard that I just broke into tears
And see in the second hand; you don't really know how this is
But when it hits that close to home you feel the pain at the crib
So I called mine, and saddened my wife with the bad news
Now we both depressed, counting our blessings 'cause Brad's two
Praying for young souls to laugh at life through the stars
Loving your kids just like you was ours
And I'm hurting for you dog; but ain't nobody pain is like yours
I just know that heaven'll open these doors
And ain't no bright side to losing life; but you can view it like this
God's got open hands homie, he in the midst.. of good company
Who loves all and hates not one
And one day you gon' be with your son
I could've rapped about my hard times on this song
But heaven knows I woulda been wrong
I wouldn'ta been right, it wouldn'ta been love
It wouldn'ta been life, it wouldn'ta been us
This can't be life

a writer can have both, Pac and Nas had prosaic type verses to

I agree that a writer can have both, my main point is that poetry in rap is nowhere near as common as its often made out to be.

And yeah Scarface has a few poetic verses, the vast majority of his rhymes are not poetic though and (IMO) that's because a lot of his strength lies in being an amazing orator. Even when he raps in a literal kind of way, the way he says it is what carries the words.

A rapper like Nas has a very hard time orating the way Face can so his lyrics do more of the heavy lifting to create the feeling/meaning.

 

[FruitOfTheVale]

That doesn’t make for good music

In the right hands it does. There was a time when lyricists pushed themselves to expand what lyricism could be, Aceyalone and a lot of the Freestyle Fellowship were known for doing this and created a lot of classic music in the process.

 

[Cadillac]

That doesn’t make for good music

yes it can, and has with artist who put effort and creativity into their work.

anastrophes and other not talked enough devices are things used alot by lyricist who get applauded of showing they got "bars" so idk why you are even saying this when almost every rapper these past years who put on some form of lyrical mastery in a song or freestyle has used it.

so clearly their is a space for them and can be

 

[Cadillac]

I agree that a writer can have both, my main point is that poetry in rap is nowhere near as common as its often made out to be.

And yeah Scarface has a few poetic verses, the vast majority of his rhymes are not poetic though and (IMO) that's because a lot of his strength lies in being an amazing orator. Even when he raps in a literal kind of way, the way he says it is what carries the words.

A rapper like Nas has a very hard time orating the way Face can so his lyrics do more of the heavy lifting to create the feeling/meaning.

we just gon have to agree to disagree then

Nas can be very literal at times, "The Message" is very literal and servesa as a track that is prosaic where its like just a storytelling track not so much a poetic one.

Whereas I seen a Man die, is very poetic with its messages, outlook, introspection.

 

[ISO]

yes it can, and has with artist who put effort and creativity into their work.

anastrophe is also something that is used alot by lyricist who get applauded of showing they got "bars" so idk why you are even saying this when almost every rapper these past years who put on some form of lyrical mastery in a song or freestyle has used it.

We talking about something new the device you listed you’re saying it’s already commonly used

 

[FruitOfTheVale]

we just gon have to agree to disagree then

Nas can be very literal at times, "The Message" is very literal and serves as a track that is prosaic where its like just a storytelling track not so much a poetic one.

Whereas I seen a Man die, is very poetic with its messages, outlook, introspection.

I agree that Nas has some prosaic verses, I'm not claiming that all of his work is poetic either. I am saying that in general, Nas leans more poetic than Face does.

 

[Cadillac]

We talking about something new the device you listed you’re saying it’s already commonly used

nothing of the sort will ever happen in hip hop, unless a new device or concept in writing comes along first. which right now theres nothing or atleast nothing that will translate to rap.

which was my point about underused or underrated techniques and methods. hence why i brought that device up. things like this that can be refreshing in hip hop, whether it be for lyrics and spitting, narration and cohesiveness in albums, content in music, etc.

that either arent recognized or not used enought

 

[Cadillac]

I agree that Nas has some prosaic verses, I'm not claiming that all of his work is poetic either. I am saying that in general, Nas leans more poetic than Face does.

I agree that Nas has some prosaic verses, I'm not claiming that all of his work is poetic either. I am saying that in general, Nas leans more poetic than Face does.

heres the thing tho, Nas has alot like that almost as much as face even, IWW and even Illmatic are very prosy and just lyrical spitting similar to what I said about Jay.

theres no real poetical touch to them. which is why im not understanding how Face gets labled as "literal" to you but nas aint

but hey man its your opinion, just agree to disagree fam

 

[FruitOfTheVale]

heres the thing tho, Nas has alot like that almost as much as face even, IWW and even Illmatic are very prosy and just lyrical spitting similar to what I said about Jay.

theres no real poetical touch to them. which is why im not understanding how Face gets labled as "literal" to you but nas aint

but hey man its your opinion, just agree to disagree fam

Nas has more tracks that are poetic than just about any other rapper of his stature not named Pac but yeah agree to disagree

I think a lot of the time what makes a rap verse dope isn't the poetry anyway, folks act like how poetic a verse is determines how dope it is but not to me, it's just another quality of writing.