Canibus says rappers don't have enough experience to make poetry like his era

[JMD]

All he wanna do is spit his shyt their 30 pages of rhymes in this mutha. Yagotta prepare every day for 3 weeks so many poetics can't memorize all that shyt

it’s called being a real MC

 

[FruitOfTheVale]

When you think of the biggest rappers of the 90s, who all was really poetic? Wu Tang, Nas, Pac, Andre 3K, Mos Def, Jay-Z, Kool Keith, Freestyle Fellowship, MF DOOM, Common, Redman... They're acknowledged for being more poetic than most. On the flipside you got Face, DMX, Jadakiss, Styles P, Pharcyde, Souls of Mischief, etc... they're all acknowledged for being dope but not in a poetic kind of way. A lot of backpack rappers spit very similarly to SoM, which is to say, complex rhyme schemes but not much content. On the flipside, a lot of street rappers take after Jadakiss or Scarface, which is to say, hard punchlines, or vivid storytelling. Very few rappers in this era successfully capture the poetry that made rappers like Nas and GZA so distinctive, but then again, neither did most of their peers.

Similarly, most R&B singers ain't Curtis Mayfield, D'Angelo or Raphael Saadiq. They do other things incredibly well, but poetic songwriting is rare.

 

[Rozay Oro]

The one thing i dont agree with canibus on, is that its base on experiences that the poetry is lacking

its not that some of these artist lack experiences, its creativity.

writing and lyric wise, there really hasnt been any artist as of late that has been impressive as a writer. Im not talking bars, but lyrics as far as telling a narrative, storytelling, creative idea, etc.

Isaiah Rashad is the closest. Cilvia Demo is a great album (I refuse to call it an EP).

 

[tuckgod]

Facts

 

[StretfordRed]

Majority of new age rappers are shyt and make terrible music. I agree.

 

[nose hair]

IT's not experience, it's that they don't have enough or ANY talent

 

[The Intergalactic Koala]

Dude could have made some decent money going the MegaRan route and spitting super complex bars about pop culture stuff. That track he did for the Office Space soundtrack could have been a blueprint

Sadly there are rappers that done it better like J-Zone and Busdriver. Canibus somewhere in the cosmos with the shyt he's rapping about and I love complex lyrical spiritual shyt every so often.

 

[Master Teacher]

When you think of the biggest rappers of the 90s, who all was really poetic? Wu Tang, Nas, Pac, Andre 3K, Mos Def, Jay-Z, Kool Keith, Freestyle Fellowship, MF DOOM, Common, Redman... They're acknowledged for being more poetic than most. On the flipside you got Face, DMX, Jadakiss, Styles P, Pharcyde, Souls of Mischief, etc... they're all acknowledged for being dope but not in a poetic kind of way. A lot of backpack rappers spit very similarly to SoM, which is to say, complex rhyme schemes but not much content. On the flipside, a lot of street rappers take after Jadakiss or Scarface, which is to say, hard punchlines, or vivid storytelling. Very few rappers in this era successfully capture the poetry that made rappers like Nas and GZA so distinctive, but then again, neither did most of their peers.

Similarly, most R&B singers ain't Curtis Mayfield, D'Angelo or Raphael Saadiq. They do other things incredibly well, but poetic songwriting is rare.

How the fukk is Redman Poetic but not DMX and Scarface

I mean the prayers on all his albums are more poetic than MF Doom whole career and Redman's

I mean that song Who Be is literally in stanzas like a poem, he literally rapping a poem on that song


The Snakes, The Grass, Too Long Too See, the Lawn Mower, Sitting Right next to the Tree

That is incredible lyricism, because he's saying a lot with a just a few words while painting a picture

you have to understand what being poetic means, there's nothing poetic about 90 percent of Wu Tang music because they using slang every other word

There's nothing poetic about Andre 3k music, he can rap really well he's not lyrical at all

 

[FruitOfTheVale]

How the fukk is Redman Poetic but not DMX and Scarface

I mean the prayers on all his albums are more poetic than MF Doom whole career and Redman's

I mean that song Who Be is literally in stanzas like a poem, he literally rapping a poem on that song


The Snakes, The Grass, Too Long Too See, the Lawn Mower, Sitting Under the Tree

That is incredible lyricism, because he's saying a lot with a just a few words while painting a picture

you have to understand what being poetic means, there's nothing poetic about 90 percent of Wu Tang music because they using slang every other word

There's nothing poetic about Andre 3k music, he can rap really well he's not lyrical at all

Yeah we got different definitions of poetic. Scarface and DMX are great songwriters and good lyricists. Scarface in particular is a better songwriter than Nas or GZA. Would I describe the average song from Scarface as "poetic"? No. Doesn't mean I'm saying he isn't a good writer.

EDIT: Yeah that song from DMX is poetically written, most of his are more written like he's talking to you directly than in that sort of style though. Same thing with Scarface.

 

[Master Teacher]

Yeah we got different definitions of poetic. Scarface and DMX are great songwriters and good lyricists. Scarface in particular is a better songwriter than Nas or GZA. Would I describe the average song from Scarface as "poetic"? No. Doesn't mean I'm saying he isn't a good writer.

EDIT: Yeah that song from DMX is poetically written, most of his are more written like he's talking to you directly than in that sort of style though. Same thing with Scarface.

I never seen a Man Cry Till I seen a Man Die is not a poetic

Being poetic isn't using complex wordplay, its about making profound statements

GZA isn't a poetically rapper to me, Killah Priest Bible on liquid Swords was far more poetic and the best song on GZA's own album

GZA is a wordsmith, not a poet

Nas is a poet, he got bars like I never sleep because sleep is the cousin of death, one of the main examples I go to when I explain lyricism

There's no complex rhyme scheme not tricky word play or melody, it's just a profound statement, it's layered not in syllables or colorful wordplay, the complexity IS IN IT'S MEANING, what he's actual is saying is complex not the structure of the words that's what being lyrical is

anything else is just rhyming

Canibus was never lyrical, he thought he was, he was never an MC, that's why LL crushed him, and why he pulled the Notepad out against Dizasteer, he never knew what an MC was he was using terms he didn't understand

Canibus could rhyme colorful words really well, that's what he was good, he was never a poet or lyrical at all

 

[FruitOfTheVale]

I never seen a Man Cry Till I seen a Man Die is not a poetic

Being poetic isn't using complex wordplay, its about making profound statements

With that being your definition, that's lowkey the same definition that Canibus just gave in the video in the OP. You don't need life experience or perspective per say to write a triple entendre but you do need life experience and perspective to distill a complex idea/philosophy/statement into one bar.

GZA isn't a poetically rapper to me, Killah Priest Bible on liquid Swords was far more poetic and the best song on GZA's own album

GZA is a wordsmith, not a poet

I disagree as far as GZA goes, he does have lyrical exercise type tracks (i.e. Labels, Liquid Swords, etc.) but the majority of his tracks, the meaning/point of his words is not surface deep and not complex for the sake of being complex. I agree that Killah Priest is poetic, no argument there.

Nas is a poet, he got bars like I never sleep because sleep is the cousin of death, one of the main examples I go to when I explain lyricism

There's no complex rhyme scheme not tricky word play or melody, it's just a profound statement, it's layered not in syllables or colorful wordplay, the complexity IS IN IT'S MEANING, what he's actual is saying is complex not the structure of the words that's what being lyrical is

anything else is just rhyming

That's why I said what I said about Souls of Mischief and rappers that take after them, the majority of their style is what you just described re: syllables and rhyme schemes. Most rappers are not poetic like that, my point is that the majority of rappers in the 90s were not poetic like that either.

Also agree that Canibus is not a rapper I'd call particularly poetic.

 

[spliz]

Yeah we got different definitions of poetic. Scarface and DMX are great songwriters and good lyricists. Scarface in particular is a better songwriter than Nas or GZA. Would I describe the average song from Scarface as "poetic"? No. Doesn't mean I'm saying he isn't a good writer.

EDIT: Yeah that song from DMX is poetically written, most of his are more written like he's talking to you directly than in that sort of style though. Same thing with Scarface.

Nah. Early X was extremely poetic. DEFINITELY Scarface as well. Listen to Smile feat Pac. That prayer he said at the end. Pac was literally a poet. Lol.

 

[u mad son?]

Half these new rappers ain't even emcees

They're from the Nelly linage of melodic yodelling

With that being said Canibus is ass in 2022 but Prime Bis was Neo in the Matrix status

Thank you. I had a discussion with my boy about this recently about what's an MC, is the MC definition even relevant anymore etc

I take the term MC very seriously, my definition of an MC is mic controller ...I know that its master of ceremonies, you supposed to move the crowd, and to be honest by that definition everyone is an MC. He was trynna tell me that the term isnt relevant anymore, I said relevancy just means what everyone is following.

But my point was over all this time it's clear that the definition of an MC is one who is a top tier wordsmith and takes the art of wordplay very seriously. In the UK, we only call rappers with skill on the mic, MCs. Whether it be garage, grime or hip hop, you only get called an MC if you are serious like that.

Real heads only use the term MC to describe top mic mans.

 

[FruitOfTheVale]

Nah. Early X was extremely poetic. DEFINITELY Scarface as well. Listen to Smile feat Pac. That prayer he said at the end. Pac was literally a poet. Lol.

Pac's verses on that song are extremely poetic, no argument there. Face's verse has some poetic lines, but o/a (as far as the majority of his discog) I don't agree that poetry is a main component of his lyrics. He writes more like a preacher/storyteller where he wants to talk to you directly. All of his verses have a point to them but the way he gets the point across is less like poetry and more like a teacher or an old head reminiscing.

 

[Master Teacher]

With that being your definition, that's lowkey the same definition that Canibus just gave in the video in the OP. You don't need life experience or perspective per say to write a triple entendre but you do need life experience and perspective to distill a complex idea/philosophy/statement into one bar.



I disagree as far as GZA goes, he does have lyrical exercise type tracks (i.e. Labels, Liquid Swords, etc.) but the majority of his tracks, the meaning/point of his words is not surface deep and not complex for the sake of being complex. I agree that Killah Priest is poetic, no argument there.



That's why I said what I said about Souls of Mischief and rappers that take after them, the majority of their style is what you just described re: syllables and rhyme schemes. Most rappers are not poetic like that, my point is that the majority of rappers in the 90s were not poetic like that either.

Also agree that Canibus is not a rapper I'd call particularly poetic.

Nobody in Wu Tang is lyrically fukking with DMX or Scarface, it's not even close, they colorful language doesn't make them lyrical

like I said Nas line I never sleep cuz sleep is the cousin of death is a lyrical bar

not because he's making a comparison to sleep and the death as if that's clever

he's not saying anything clever, he's making profound statement and saying a lot with little words

The meaning of the bar is complex, He's encompassing the entirety of being a street rapper in one bar, you can envision his entire lifestyle is in that bar

He never sleeps cuz sleep is the cousin death, in the streets you have to be aware of your surroundings or all time, or get you caught lacking you end up dead, like King Von, King Von was sleep and met his death, that's the reason why Nas is still alive after being around all these dangerous situations and people in the rap game, and King Von got killed just as he started, he mentally wasn't prepared for what he was getting himself into and caught sleep, lackin as they say now

It also means you gotta stay working you gotta stay up, you can't get comfortable, because you will fall off, you will go broke your career would be over, that's rap death

how many times you heard puffy say he don't sleep, steve harvey and others, it's about being production, staying sharp being on your square at all times

You get all of this infomation out of a single little bar that's not complicated at all, that's what being poetic is, and being lyrically is doing that poerty in music format

People confuse that rappity rap shyt for lyricism, and that's not what lyricism is, that's why people called it lyrical miracle