So basically you're advocating for a more co-operative marriage where you both contribute in whatever way you can to each other, instead of the totally patriarchal one in the OP. You lead because you're a leader and your wife wants to be lead. What if the man isn't a leader and the wife is, why can't she make some of the big decisions if the man she's made a family with is just not that leader type of dude?
Candace Cameron Bure Defends Her "Submissive Role" With Husband: "I Want Him to Lead"
- Thread starter Chris.B
- Start date
So basically you're advocating for a more co-operative marriage where you both contribute in whatever way you can to each other, instead of the totally patriarchal one in the OP. You lead because you're a leader and your wife wants to be lead. What if the man isn't a leader and the wife is, why can't she make some of the big decisions if the man she's made a family with is just not that leader type of dude?
I'm leaving this but with the message that some women like to submit---cooking for their husband, cleaning for their husband, doing chores for their husband, and being treated in a loving way (I don't know why submission can't mean the man does not love his wife or is abusive).
Chesirecatdaddy
All Star
well even the article itself uses a different definition of the word submission. I'm sure there's a few different interpretations of what it is. There's also @dax interpretation which sounds more like some kinky shyt.
Malik
Superstar
Black people (and some liberal whites) the only groups I know that have an issue with men being men and leading the household. Italians, Irish-Catholics, Indians, Latinos, Arabs, Chinese. They'd laugh in your damn face saying its wrong for a man to be the patriarch. Its normal. That's how its supposed to be. And that's one of the main reasons their families and communities are intact and ours are in shambles.
Mr. Somebody
Friend Of A Friend
The wife pitches in her ideas and the man passes judgement on them regarding whether or not they should be applied to the household and whether or not they should follow them.
(simplistic example)
My wife tells me to take off my shoes when i come in the house. Like at the door. I used to not do this but its actually a good idea because over the years filth can generate on a carpet before you even Know it. I obey her in that regard.
I tell my wife do not Ever let my son sleep past 8pm. No naps after 6. She didnt understand at first but i had the insight to see that its keeping us up all night. So she obeyed and life is happier.
Im just speaking on my type of relationship. Im sure the relationship you're talking about exists but i have no experience with it because ive always been the leader in my relationship. I have some friends that came from a matriarch and none of them are married. They explicitly avoid women that want a leader and find women that come equipped with know it alll ness and so far, it hasnt worked out well for them. I literally dont know one thats married.
Its hard to be a strong man that believes hes intelligent and a leader and then have your woman tell you that you dont know what you're talking about and to fall back. It often leads to feelings of emasculation which cause the man to try to regain his masculinity through infidelity. On the other side the lack of good ideas and leadership from the man can cause the woman to be captivated by a man who exhibits more leadership qualities then her man.
Now if the man is just weak and his woman is not, then yea, i could see how that kind of relationship would work. Hes basically dating his mother, in a way.
I say all this to say that men should find women they can lead and women should find men that can lead them. A weak man, should start taking Brazilian Jiujitsu and reading proverbs every night.
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Elle Driver
Veteran
Some women think having a man be the head of the household means they're weak. So they fight for control every second. You're a strong woman. You don't need a man.
On the other end of the spectrum, single mothers with four kids working three jobs to pay all the bills, have a permanentface wishing they had a man around to make life easier for them.
Which one is it ladies?
Malik
Superstar
*simple dissection friends*
which you do as well
which you do as well
a lot of issues like what??? I'm still asking you to give me specific examples.
and this is literally all it boils down to. which would make your wife obedient not submissive. its your way or the highway because you have veto power. you have the authority.
But you guys are missing the opposing views argument. Girls are COMING INTO RELATIONSHIPS expecting the guy to lead. Expecting the guy to always be right. And pretty much laying on their back and expecting to be "guided." Which makes no sense when you acknowledge that they are grown ass adults too. In no other form of life do you expect or allow someone else to control your life path. What you're saying sounds right to you, because you and your wife have already worked out the dynamic of your relationship. But what about a new couple starting from scratch. Or a bunch of 21 year olds.
So, question, are you and your wife going to teach your daughter these things, or will her husband?
which you do as well
which you do as well
a lot of issues like what??? I'm still asking you to give me specific examples.
and this is literally all it boils down to. which would make your wife obedient not submissive. its your way or the highway because you have veto power. you have the authority.
But you guys are missing the opposing views argument. Girls are COMING INTO RELATIONSHIPS expecting the guy to lead. Expecting the guy to always be right. And pretty much laying on their back and expecting to be "guided." Which makes no sense when you acknowledge that they are grown ass adults too. In no other form of life do you expect or allow someone else to control your life path. What you're saying sounds right to you, because you and your wife have already worked out the dynamic of your relationship. But what about a new couple starting from scratch. Or a bunch of 21 year olds.
So, question, are you and your wife going to teach your daughter these things, or will her husband?
Going through this whole thread is a brain killer. Moving goalposts all around.
I think the main issue is that the work submissive has differing connotations between people, and said connotations do not line up to a particular sex. It seems that it is mostly about that persons upbringing.
I will say that personally I feel the word submissive is too strong because it implies to strong/independent females as a loss of control/power that they have likely fought hard for. I might be guilty as we'll, as submissive in my mind is a woman who barely has an opinion on anything, and such a woman is not desirable to me in the least. Others have defined the word in a better manner that I can agree with.
I think what most people that dislike the S word want is an equal partnership. The analogy comparing a relationship without submissiveness is to a company with two CEOs is flawed. It is better represented by two successful companies forming a partnership in my opinion. In other words, both partners are submissive onto each other...
I think the main issue is that the work submissive has differing connotations between people, and said connotations do not line up to a particular sex. It seems that it is mostly about that persons upbringing.
I will say that personally I feel the word submissive is too strong because it implies to strong/independent females as a loss of control/power that they have likely fought hard for. I might be guilty as we'll, as submissive in my mind is a woman who barely has an opinion on anything, and such a woman is not desirable to me in the least. Others have defined the word in a better manner that I can agree with.
I think what most people that dislike the S word want is an equal partnership. The analogy comparing a relationship without submissiveness is to a company with two CEOs is flawed. It is better represented by two successful companies forming a partnership in my opinion. In other words, both partners are submissive onto each other...
Elle Driver
Veteran
You talkin bout extremes, not wanting a man to be the head of household cause a woman wants control? Cmon breh.
Welp, bottom line: I ain't submitting 100% I'll give most but I still need to watch out for me in the long run, in case my husband pulls a fast one on me.
BlackBieber
Banned
you go girl
But that's why I keep asking for examples….
Because people are always going to try and redefine words to make themselves feel better. But all you have to do is ask, "hey so how are you submissive? Give me an example." And that wordsmith BS goes away with the quickness.
Hence why I'm over here laughing at all these articles and @Mr. Somebody because all he keeps doing is wordsmithing. Not once has be brought up something like:
- decision about a house
- decision about the wedding
- decision about schooling for the kids
You know something tangible. Its all "fluff fluff fluff fluff."
Someone brought up women not picking arguments with their husbands. And I'm just like
THAT'S NOT SUBMISSION.