BREAKING: Roe v Wade has been overturned by the Supreme Court #BothSides

[Wildhundreds]

You wouldn't be here today if this 'type of woman' didn't reproduce. Everybody who keep saying this, you realize that bp been through some dire shyt and woulda been aborting yall ancestors left and right if the opportunity were available... right?

Ftr, I come at this not from a moral standpoint. In fact, nothing I say is morality based, morals are personal. But I was trained as a historian and reaching reproductive replacement levels is the absolute minimum in nation- building.

These people give 0 fcks about nation building.

 

[Absolut da poet ®]

It would not be hard to set up laws that would help those women out.

Yet there is never any provision or even conversation to discuss how to address those specific victims in any legislation

It's just a blanket ban

 

[Spliff]

What's really the end goal of banning abortions?

Repub cacs cry about "welfare babies" all the time, blame those born out of poverty for crime, go out of their way to hinder upward mobility from these communities, and on and on and on


Sex wont halt. Babies wont stop being born. So what gives?

 

[Reflected]

I’m gonna get some negs but fukk it

statistics say 1 percent of abortions are due to rape, .5% are due to incest, 12 percent are due to concerns about the health of the mother or the fetus

the overwhelming majority of abortions are a result of carelessness (respectfully)

will the men and women that make up 85% of the abortions exercise more caution if this passes?

It's just not good for overall wellbeing in any society either developed or underdeveloped to have abortions banned. And I can provide numbers on that. I should note, I'm actually anti-abortion, of unborns that have achieved sentience in the womb, it's on that same basis that I support veganism.

So with that, Republicans aren't going to stop at abortion but if we hone in on that issue alone, we should recognize that both abortion and contraception will follow the same trajectory. When it comes to these concerns, we wan't professionals handling the situation, for sake of managing mortality rates.


*On Mortality:

So controlling for that, I can pull this study, which suggests an initial 21% increase in the mortality (death) rate in response to a ban on abortion :

I find that in the first year of such a ban, estimated pregnancy-related deaths would increase from 675 to 724 (49 additional deaths, representing a 7% increase), and in subsequent years to 815 (140 additional deaths, for a 21% increase). Non-Hispanic Black people would experience the greatest increase in deaths (a 33% increase in subsequent years).

The Pregnancy-Related Mortality Impact of a Total Abortion Ban in the United States: A Research Note on Increased Deaths Due to Remaining Pregnant | Demography | Duke University Press

*Check out the table associated with the estimates, which I can't properly show on this forum: https://read.dukeupress.edu/view-large/5038861

Note the African-American figure which suggest a 33% increase in mortality rate following subsequent years of an abortion ban. I want to keep this post short because I don't even know if people care and I'm not being paid for this but when we couple that with the quality of care the average black person is going to receive at their local medical centers and the state of healthcare coverage for the average black person, it's just a disaster. I don't think I need to dive into that. Lets also consider Republican will towards making that worse because they hate funding, hate taxes, and want small government, which means more profit reaping healthcare centers setting up shop.


*On Responsibility:

From the Brookings Institution:

Low-income women are more than five times as likely than affluent women to experience an unintended pregnancy, which has significant implications for social mobility given that unplanned childbearing is associated with higher rates of poverty, less family stability, and worse outcomes for children, according to a new Brookings Center on Children and Families (CCF) paper published today.

Using National Survey of Family Growth Data from the Centers for Disease Control, the authors calculate that women living at 100 percent or less of the federal poverty level (single households earning approximately $11,200 per year or less) who are not actively trying to conceive are twice as likely not to use contraception as their wealthier counterparts (those at 400 percent or above of the poverty level, or earning over $44,700 per year). Poor women not trying to conceive are also three times more likely to get pregnant than their higher income counterparts (9 percent compared to 3 percent), and ultimately at 5 times more likely to give birth. In addition, abortion rates among the poor are lower, with 32 percent in the highest income bracket having an abortion compared to 9 percent of low-income terminations.

Using economic modeling (a shift-share analysis to simulate the effects of equalizing the use of birth control between different income groups), Reeves and Venator find that the birth rate for women at or below the federal poverty line drops by half, from 72 births per 1000 women to 34. Using the same technique to equalize abortion rates between the rich and poor, they find that the birth rate for the lower-income women drops by one-third from 72 to 49, substantially reducing the income gap, though not as dramatically as equalizing contraceptive use.

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/class_gaps_unintended_pregnancy_release.pdf

(Full Study) https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/26_class_gaps_unintended_pregnancy.pdf

And the conclusion, which can put it better than I can:

Control of fertility varies widely between income groups. Most unmarried women are sexually active, regardless of income. But women with higher incomes are much more successful at ensuring that sex does not lead to an accidental baby. This almost certainly reflects their brighter economic and labor market prospects: simply put, they have more to lose from an unintended birth. Improving the economic and educational prospects of poorer women is therefore an important part of any strategy to reduce unintended birth rates. But there are more immediate solutions, too. Affluent women use contraception more frequently and more effectively, and there is a clear case for policies to help close this income gap, including increasing access to long-acting reversible contraceptives (LARCs). But access to affordable abortion also matters, and this is currently limited for many low-income women. There are of course strongly-held views on abortion, but it should be hard for anyone to accept such inequalities by income, especially when they are likely to reverberate across two or more generations. Abortion is a difficult choice, but it is not one that should be influenced by financial status.

Although the entire study is worth the read, it's straight to the point and covers the major areas discussed in this thread.


*On Morality:

As I stated earlier, I'm actually anti-abortion and it's primarily because I don't think we are justified in killing a being that has achieved sentience as they have effectively achieved what is necessary for a subjective-experience, and it is on that basis that I extend the claim to other animals as I can draw no reasonable distinction between the two that would justify killing one and not the other, particularly for unnecessary reasons such as taste pleasure or clothing that I can do without.

A simple hypothetical, if we are able to seperate the baby from the womb and allow it to grow to term, what justification do we have for killing it? Most can't answer that question without assuming control over another being and deciding to end its life for their own reasons. So we obviously haven't reached that level in technology. And with that, I recognize the practicality of abortion being legalized in a country. It increases overall wellbeing and when met with that decision, I have no choice but to support it until previously said technology comes into play else I would have to deal with my decisions leading to an increase in death, I have to be fine with killing both the unborn child and mother and I have to be fine with increasing the likelihood that people born into poverty will likely remain in poverty, from a statistical analysis. I'm obviously not fine with that so I have to reject the ban on abortion.

I have reasonably grounded my position on abortion and my justification for it, it's not in depth here but it is grounded in consistency and I can answer almost any question on the matter, that's significantly more than the average person can account for. With that, the Republicans are seeking to become the moral abritor on the basis of their religious beliefs and nothing else. They clearly don't care for the mortality rate as their legalization moves to increase that, they don't care for simply decreasing abortions, as evidence has shown access to abortions decreases abortions and they are even going after contraceptives, which also decreases abortions.

I don't need to tell you that Republicans don't care for black people, that goes without saying. So should we really sit back and allow Republicans to be the moral abritor on these issues when they clearly have not thought any of this out? The evidence against them is overwhelming, they are dealing in logic or reason, they are dealing entirely in feels.




Now I actually have to go exercise, might be awhile before I'm back after that but this discussion will likely keep going, I don't mind going in detail to an extent or answering any controversial questions on the matter when I get back.

 

[Giselle]

They're coming for civil rights next. Yes, that includes the black civil rights parts of the commerce clause.

Affirmative action is finished.

Yall should just get ready.

We warned yall.

I don’t understand how y’all were brainwashed into believing that killing your unborn child is a human right that is so immoral to get rid of. There is literally many types of birth control and condoms, plus there is plan b which didn’t exist when that law was created. The updated studies in unborn children also didn’t exist but now that they have more information they see how it’s immoral to kill the womb baby.

And I’m sick of women whining about being “forced” to be a parent as if they didn’t consent to raw sex, it was their choice. And those be the same ones bashing “dead beat dads” when they’re all in the same boat but even worse bc they’re killing their kids to avoid being a parent.

just use the fcking birth control and make better choices before agreeing to raw sex. It’s that simple.

 

[Houston911]

It's just not good for overall wellbeing in any society either developed or underdeveloped to have abortions banned. And I can provide numbers on that. I should note, I'm actually anti-abortion, of unborns that have achieved sentience in the womb, it's on that same basis that I support veganism.

So with that, Republicans aren't going to stop at abortion but if we hone in on that issue alone, we should recognize that both abortion and contraception will follow the same trajectory. When it comes to these concerns, we wan't professionals handling the situation, for sake of managing mortality rates.


*On Mortality:

So controlling for that, I can pull this study, which suggests an initial 21% increase in the mortality (death) rate in response to a ban on abortion :



Note the African-American figure which suggest a 33% increase in mortality rate following subsequent years of an abortion ban. I want to keep this post short because I don't even know if people care and I'm not being paid for this but when we couple that with the quality of care the average black person is going to receive at their local medical centers and the state of healthcare coverage for the average black person, it's just a disaster. I don't think I need to dive into that. Lets also consider Republican will towards making that worse because they hate funding, hate taxes, and want small government, which means more profit reaping healthcare centers setting up shop.


*On Responsibility:

From the Brookings Institution:



And the conclusion, which can put it better than I can:





Although the entire study is worth the read, it's straight to the point and covers the major areas discussed in this thread.


*On Morality:

As I stated earlier, I'm actually anti-abortion and it's primarily because I don't think we are justified in killing a being that has achieved sentience as they have effectively achieved what is necessary for a subjective-experience, and it is on that basis that I extend the claim to other animals as I can draw no reasonable distinction between the two that would justify killing one and not the other, particularly for unnecessary reasons such as taste pleasure or clothing that I can do without.

A simple hypothetical, if we are able to seperate the baby from the womb and allow it to grow to term, what justification do we have for killing it? Most can't answer that question without assuming control over another being and deciding to end its life for their own reasons. So we obviously haven't reached that level in technology. And with that, I recognize the practicality of abortion being legalized in a country. It increases overall wellbeing and when met with that decision, I have no choice but to support it until previously said technology comes into play else I would have to deal with my decisions leading to an increase in death, I have to be fine with killing both the unborn child and mother and I have to be fine with increasing the likelihood that people born into poverty will likely remain in poverty, from a statistical analysis. I'm obviously not fine with that so I have to reject the ban on abortion.

I have reasonably grounded my position on abortion and my justification for it, it's not in depth here but it is grounded in consistency and I can answer almost any question on the matter, that's significantly more than the average person can account for. With that, the Republicans are seeking to become the moral abritor on the basis of their religious beliefs and nothing else. They clearly don't care for the mortality rate as their legalization moves to increase that, they don't care for simply decreasing abortions, as evidence has shown access to abortions decreases abortions and they are even going after contraceptives, which also decreases abortions.

I don't need to tell you that Republicans don't care for black people, that goes without saying. So should we really sit back and allow Republicans to be the moral abritor on these issues when they clearly have not thought any of this out? The evidence against them is overwhelming, they are dealing in logic or reason, they are dealing entirely in feels.




Now I actually have to go exercise, might be awhile before I'm back after that but this discussion will likely keep going, I don't mind going in detail to an extent or answering any controversial questions on the matter when I get back.

I’m pro choice, I think people should be able to abort even if the pregnancy was due to being irresponsible

Just curious what percentage of people will tighten up if you can no longer use abortions as a form of birth control

 

[The D-List Vet]

son, its truly a wrap for black civil rights.

nikkas really thought shyt was sweet.

We're living in the consequences of electing Barack Obama.

Just like reconstruction followed by 80+ years of Jim Crow.

I am glad this Indian fukk was ban

 

[Reflected]

I can't fix it, likely due to a server error caused by the links in the post but I meant to say:

The evidence against them is overwhelming, they *aren't* dealing in logic or reason, they are dealing entirely in feels.

My proofreading is beyond terrible, at least one mistake every post. But I'm out following that.

 

[Reflected]

I’m pro choice, I think people should be able to abort even if the pregnancy was due to being irresponsible

Just curious what percentage of people will tighten up if you can no longer use abortions as a form of birth control

The brooking study covers that but only under the assumption that contraceptives are available. Maybe I can find that specifically later, idk.

 

[HiphopRelated]

I’m pro choice, I think people should be able to abort even if the pregnancy was due to being irresponsible

Just curious what percentage of people will tighten up if you can no longer use abortions as a form of birth control

People will just cross state lines or if that's too expensive, have riskier illegal abortions

 

[OfTheCross]

What other "non fundamental" aspects of the constitution will they go after?

Same reason Alito used can strike down a whole host of amendments

Amendments are part of the Constitution tho...so it can't.

 

[OfTheCross]

People will just cross state lines or if that's too expensive, have riskier illegal abortions

It's already been said that these Indian territories can all have clinics w/ no problem cause they're their own government.

 

[Pool_Shark]

I just think a woman should have the option to chose what happens with her body. I’d hope they make the right choice but it’s on them, life is complicated.

 

[MarcP]

They want women to have these babies but don't give a single iota of a fukk about the child or the mother after they give birth. Call em a welfare queen and start talking that pick yourself up by the boot strap bullshyt. Don't wanna provide healthcare. shyt is dumb and weird.

 

[Rollie Forbes]

Price of a Plan B going up.