Breaking Bad Season 5 Official Thread
- Thread starter That Singer Guy...
- Start date
Great post breh. It's nice seeing someone with objectivity. The thing is, other cats seem hell bent on trying to act like any flaw brought up about this show is just cats not getting the point. Don't insult people's intelligence. Nobody has even questioned the brilliance of the show, we just pointed out some flaws in writing that any show will have because no show has writers that are infallible. The creator of the show has stated plenty of times that they write this show as they go. Is it farfetched that that kind of strategy can lead to a plot hole or sloppy scene every once in a blue moon?I mean they write themselves into corners, and sometimes it isn't cleanly solved. I like that the show has balls. They needed Mike and Walt to meet in a secluded location, and in order to get there, they needed Mike to have to leave his GD.
In a show that is more realistic than anything else right now, I'll take it.
Yes, I have made logical points that have gone unanswered. You proved so in this post. I ask why Walt didn't immediately pick up the gun if he felt he needed protection. You tell me he wasn't afraid at that point in time? So the car ride to meet him is what convinced him he needed protection? You're making way more assumptions right now than someone who notices a guy took a gun, killed someone with a gun, and believes there was some form of premeditation in the act.you have?
No because he wasn't "afraid Mike was going to kill him" at that point in time. The fact that he immediately zipped up the bag showed that while he was apprehensive about meeting up with Mike, he didn't feel he had to fear for his life.
Don't put to much stock in the "afraid of Mike..." because he really wasn't. He picked up the gun as "protection." Either way, the main argument here is whether the murder was premeditated. There was enough shown to clearly state that it wasn't. If you wanted it to be clearer by hearing an inner monologue of what Walt is thinking, or a long boring scene of Walt seeming indecisive right before meeting with Mike then idk what to tell you. You're asking for too much. It was a good scene, well written, and it's no shocker that the writer's have backed up what me and hex have been saying since Sunday.
read above...we can read into that as Walt saying to himself "we're just gonna talk it out, Mike is gonna thank me for helping out, and everything is gonna be fine. I'll just leave the gun here just in case...he's not gonna miss it."
And idk why, but I'm not entirely sure Walt left the gun in the car. I'll have to watch the scene again
Edit: All you're doing right now is pointing out the indecisiveness of Walt leading up to him finally pulling the trigger. There's no "good writing" that can explain indecisiveness. Either you peep it which some of us did, or you don't. But you can't use indecisiveness to determine premeditation....it doesn't make sense. The writer's showed multiple signs of Walt's indecisiveness (the uncertainty about the gun in the bag before zipping it up, the uncertainty to walk away from Mike when the discussion ended, the apologies at the end) and you're arguing bad writing because you could theoretically dream up a scenario where Walt planned to shoot Mike in spite of those scenes. Sorry breh, I can't cosign that
Walt, Jesse and Saul have a convo about Mike right before Walt goes to meet him. Saul is clearly insinuating the possibility that Mike may be a risk as far as getting caught and flipping. Then Mike calls Saul not knowing Walt and Jesse are there in advance and asks Saul to bring him the go bag. He wasn't even planning on seeing Walt before he left, it just happened that way. If he wanted to set up Walt wouldn't he call him specifically and ask him to bring the bag? Or was Saul in on some plot to get Mike close to Walt, arranged a meeting with Walt and Jesse and planned to have Mike call at that time and knew Walt would volunteer to go? There is no reason to assume Mike had any inclination to harm Walt at that point in the game. You guys have sat there and watched Walt walk into much more dangerous situations while leaving himself vulnerable yet feeling secure because he thought everything through, but want to act like this isn't one of those situations?
I'll try and say it again...I'm not saying that clapping Mike is something he knew he was definitely going to do, but it was an option based on if he gave the names up. His ego being bruised in the process of trying to do that was the ultimate catalyst in what ended up happening. The creators of the show have stated he took the gun for protection, cool. They did a sloppy job of portraying it on screen. There was no indication of indecisiveness when he opened the bag. He had the same look on his face the entire time. Obviously he notices the gun and thinks something about seeing it. Claiming it's obviously indecisiveness displayed on his face is a lie. He does his best to get Mike to give him the names (asks him multiple times during their exchange) gets heated that Mike says no, get's his ego hurt by Mike saying it's all his fault and claps him.
To say I'm clearly wrong based on what I clearly saw going on on screen is stanning at it's finest. There's a scene of three guys talking about Mike being a risk of getting them all locked up and then a scene of one of those guys noticing Mike's gun. Then a scene of one of those guys killing Mike when he refuses to give up the names. Looking at it in that general sense the implication is obvious. When you start breaking it down even more, the fact that the implication is still a valid possibility points to the ambiguity of the whole thing.
JMurder
SOHH Member since 01...
Except for the fact that you ignored my explanation in order to further your own point. I already stated that the scenes that were shown DO show an indecisiveness on Walt's part. From the point he first sees the gun to the moment Mike dies, there are multiple instances where Walt seems indecisive...unsure. The only way you can prove premeditation, is by ignoring multiple signs of indecisiveness.
Once again, your putting too much emphasis on what others have said. Stick with the facts instead of "someone said he did it cause he was scared." You accused the writers of bad writing because you can manufacture a scenario from what you've seen to assume premeditation. But the fact is, you really can't...Yes, there are reasons that Walt could have used to commit premeditated murder. Yes, Walt was very prepared to murder Mike when it came down to it. However, there is absolutely no clear point where we can pinpoint Walt had made a decision to murder Mike. If he had decided to do so as a result of what Saul said, he would've been shown packing heat after he volunteered to get Mike's stuff for him. It would've shown from step 1 that Mike was about to die, and built tension to the end of the show.
If he had decided to shoot Mike by the time he picked up the bag, he would've taken the gun out of the bag and immediately holstered it. It would've shown an opportunistic nature to get rid of Mike now that something unexpected has popped up like a gun. If he had decided to shoot Mike by the time he passed the bag over, he would've already been packing heat (assuming he wasn't already). Or if he had decided to shoot Mike by the time the conversation was done, he would've murked him out by the time he turned around to walk to his car (assuming he was already packing heat). Just way too much to ignore to say it was all premeditated. It was at most an inner conflict from the moment he saw the gun, and at the least was momentary loss of sanity. We can't really argue anything else.
I'll tell you why that's false. The names thing only came up because Mike wouldn't say thank you. You think if the names were really that important, he wouldn't have started the conversation off that way? No, what was important was the respect that Mike refused to give him. When it was clear Mike wouldn't, he said "fine, I'm gonna go after something that you're trying to protect because it could affect me." When he wouldn't give him that AND called his name out Walt became incensed and what happened happened. There was no thought process about "if he don't give me the names I'll kill him." It was all about ego
How are you looking at scenes "in a general sense" and saying "it's poor writing." Obviously by looking at it the way you are, you're skipping the important clues and nods that define what happened. Walt's ego, mannerisms, and actions leading up to what happened are key and we have to judge based on the character...not "a guy killing another guy."
Now, there are flaws in the show...frankly, the whole plan involving the lawyer betrays Mike's whole character imo. It was very sloppy and unlike him. But I don't think you have a leg to stand on here.
I'm only quoting this part because it displays what another part of the problem is in trying to have discussions like this: cats watch an episode once, fudge facts yet insist they know what they're talking about. The second Walt arrives to the lake, Mike says ""Hello, Walter" and Walt says, "Before I hand this over, I need something from you". I don't really think I have to tell you what it is Walt tells him he needs from him...in case I do tho, it's the names
There are other factual mistakes in your post, but I'm honestly not interested in writing any more paragraphs. This shyt is just going in unnecessary circles at this point.
No I hear you. We're all in love with the show. That same topic was a big debate at another forum I post at too.
Get the fukk out this thread and go watch that piff, before I start spoiling shyt.
T-K-G
Veteran
JMurder
SOHH Member since 01...
I'm only quoting this part because it displays what another part of the problem is in trying to have discussions like this: cats watch an episode once, fudge facts yet insist they know what they're talking about. The second Walt arrives to the lake, Mike says ""Hello, Walter" and Walt says, "Before I hand this over, I need something from you". I don't really think I have to tell you what it is Walt tells him he needs from him...in case I do tho, it's the names
u right...I fudged facts.
still...that conversation led to Mike walking up to him and taking the bag out his hand, and then calmly walking away.
THEN Walt said "YOUR WELCOME!"
Which led to him getting shytted on. So if he were gonna pop Mike...over the list....he'dve pulled out and blasted instead of begging for some credit. That's when we knew it wasn't about the list.
So I mixed up the order of things, but my points remain. He went, knowing he wasn't gonna get credit, asked for the list cause "Mike was gonna give him something," when Mike still didn't give him the list he pulled the "you owe us (me)" card. Nope...still not seeing the premeditation
Edit: And now that I've watched again, there's no evidence that Walt actually went inside the car to pick the gun up. He might've had it on him the whole time...was gonna walk away...his pride wouldn't let him and
RIP Mike
detroitwalt
Superstar
Get the fukk out this thread and go watch that piff, before I start spoiling shyt.
fukking disgusting
Aight, I'm outta here
A lot of criticism? This show is sitting at 99% on Metacritic. It's getting better reviews than last season, and I don't even think it's better than season 4.
Nothing this season has been as bad as the fake serial killer plot from season 5 of "The Wire", and people still call it the GOAT so
I always point out shyt I'm not feeling....I didn't have a problem with either thing you said though. People are saying "why didn't he tie both hands" as if the average person would think to use a coffee pot wire as an electrical torch. One hand tied to a furnace would be enough for most people, so the complaints are kinda
And Mike has only used Saul once since season 3, so them introducing the new laywer ain't as random as people are making it seem.
Fred.
The Jewnited States
Superstar
would a thread on the wire during its run have got this much discussion? i'm just wondering (ps you dont have to reply, i dont wanan derail this)
Photos: A Look at the 'Breaking Bad' Art Show at Gallery1988: LAist
they had an exhibit of the show in LA
they had an exhibit of the show in LA