Breaking Bad Season 5 Official Thread

[JMurder]

nikkas are so quick to hate this season

has it always been like this or what?

 

[OG Talk]

I dunno if you're or what but the actors always give their feedback on what they think their character would do vs what the writers wrote. This has been going on since season 1.

Fred.

Naw it's not just that I have been reading a lot of criticism about the introduction of characters just to serve the purpose of the plot (Mike's lawyer for example)..And the scene in episode 6 with Mike cuffing Walt to the pipe has been universally panned by even the shows biggest fans..

 

[Killakidkano]

Random theory I thought of walt jr will die doing donuts in his challenger all the foreshadowing is there

 

[JMurder]

Random theory I thought of walt jr will die doing donuts in his challenger all the foreshadowing is there

it's been stated for the majority of the season already

(and I personally don't think that there's really that much foreshadowing to it)

 

[Killakidkano]

it's been stated for the majority of the season already

(and I personally don't think that there's really that much foreshadowing to it)

 

[obarth]

Walt not being afraid to die =/= Walt is gonna actively put himself in harm's way.

If you assume Walt went there with the intention of killing Mike, then yes the scene is written sloppy and Walt's remorse in the end seems forced and tacked-on.

But this is "Breaking Bad", and the writers aren't sloppy.

So, no offense, but which is more likely....that they dropped the ball this late in the game, or that you misinterpreted the scene? Because if you read the scene as, Walt wanted praise or recognition from Mike, which they telegraphed from the opening scene, and the scene after that when he asked for a "thank you", and then again when he finally told Mike "you're welcome!"....then everything makes perfect sense. The ep is "Say My Name", the whole premise is, Walt wants props. He wants people on his dikk.

Lastly, you keep mentioning Mike has threatened Walt before, and Walt didn't seem worried last ep with a gun to his head....of course not, he had $300 mill worth of methylamine as leverage. Or he had Gale as a chess piece, or he had the security footage to distract Mike. Walt went into this final meeting with zero cards to play....it's far more likely he took the gun as "Mike might try to kill me, I better be prepared" instead of "I got a gun, I'm gonna kill Mike". Especially considering he could've shot Mike in the back....but he didn't, he said "you're welcome". Why? Because he wanted his props, not Mike dead.

Fred.

As far as the argument that it's more likely I interpreted the scene wrong as opposed to the writers of the show dropping the ball: a sloppily written scene isn't dropping the ball when your writing has been as top notch as BB. All of the greatest shows have a sloppily written scene here or there. And it's disingenuous for you of all people to claim a show's writers are infallible, and I say that with respect. I've seen you point out negatives in shows that you've readily admitted were better than BB.

This has nothing to do with me assuming Walt went there to kill Mike. That would infer I had that opinion before the scene took place and merely saw what I wanted to see in the scene. I thought Mike was gonna get offed, but never pretended to know how it would happen. I'm deducing that Walt had a full understanding that killing Mike would be an option by the evidence of him taking the gun in the first place. You guys are deducing he took the gun for protection. I see more evidence to support my deduction considering the points I've made. It seems a bigger stretch to go against everything we've seen as far as Mike's cautiousness and Walt's reaction's to Mike threatening him, then to go with all of that.

I asked before, when has Walt armed himself for protection as opposed to being the aggressor? Pretty much anytime Walt has a weapon in this show, hes the one either going to hurt someone or intimidate someone. He's gone into plenty of situations he was aware were life threatening without a gun or anything. The meeting at the beginning of the episode being one of them. What leverage does Walt have in this situation? Mike's desperation. You guys think Mikes more desperate to kill Walt then to escape the heat he has on his ass? You keep bringing up that it's Walt's ego that caused him to kill Mike as if I haven't already said many times that I'm aware of that. I just don't buy that he didn't understand killing Mike would be a possibility depending on how things went at this meetup. Things went wrong; Mike refusing to give the names and Walt's ego being bruised, and that was the end of Mike's chapter.

 

[obarth]

ALRIGHT -- case closed...

The creators themselves said they'd like to leave it up to the viewers imagination but they pretty much confirmed that Walt took the gun to PREVENT Mike from possibly killing HIM and did NOT get there with ANY intentions on killing Mike.

They talk about it about an hour and 15 minutes into the latest podcast

edit:
Mattafack, they pretty much summed it up very much like Fred did

Props, but my original point was that the scene was just sloppily written to even leave that ambiguity about that scene as a possibility. And I've seen them use the "it's up to the viewer's imagination" card more times than I can count to cover up said ambiguity. I think I've made a more than compelling argument as to why it makes sense to think Walt was aware that killing Mike was an option and thus took the gun, but that his ego was the catalyst to actually using it. Me being able to make that strong a case speaks to the ambiguity of a scene that they're saying has one correct interpretation.

I'm not trying to shyt on the show, I love the show. Just pointing out something I noticed.

 

[JMurder]

Props, but my original point was that the scene was just sloppily written to even leave that ambiguity about that scene as a possibility. And I've seen them use the "it's up to the viewer's imagination" card more times than I can count to cover up said ambiguity. I think I've made a more than compelling argument as to why it makes sense to think Walt was aware that killing Mike was an option and thus took the gun, but that his ego was the catalyst to actually using it. Me being able to make that strong a case speaks to the ambiguity of a scene that they're saying has one correct interpretation.

I'm not trying to shyt on the show, I love the show. Just pointing out something I noticed.

Your case is strong to who? Not everyone

the scene wasn't sloppily written. Walt saw the gun, and immediately zipped the bag up. If he planned to murk out Mike...he would've immediately grabbed it. That scene was put in there to show that it wasn't premeditated. He had to fight with himself about what to do about the gun, which led to him deciding to pick it up. What was sloppily written about that?

 

[obarth]

Your case is strong to who? Not everyone

the scene wasn't sloppily written. Walt saw the gun, and immediately zipped the bag up. If he planned to murk out Mike...he would've immediately grabbed it. That scene was put in there to show that it wasn't premeditated. He had to fight with himself about what to do about the gun, which led to him deciding to pick it up. What was sloppily written about that?

Considering I asked plenty of logical questions that have gone ignored and unanswered my case is pretty strong. Of course it's not an opinion shared by everyone, hence the, you know, arguing going on about the point. And you're reaching like a mug now. Walt would have grabbed it immediately if he planned to murk Mike? And how do you know this exactly? Can't I turn around and say he would have grabbed it immediately if he was afraid Mike was going to kill him? You really think you can make an argument based on him zipping the bag up?

And a simple question I would like for someone to try and answer. What good is bringing the gun for protection yet leaving it in the car if you're worried a damn professional assassin is going to kill you? You think Mike needs a gun to kill Walt? What good is your gun for protection when you leave it in the car and end up getting strangled to death or stabbed?

 

[TheDarceKnight]

The actor that plays Mike said that neither him or the character would ever leave his grand daughter on that playground in a million years...Seems like the writers are starting to get sh!tted on this year...

I mean they write themselves into corners, and sometimes it isn't cleanly solved. I like that the show has balls. They needed Mike and Walt to meet in a secluded location, and in order to get there, they needed Mike to have to leave his GD.

In a show that is more realistic than anything else right now, I'll take it.

 

[JMurder]

Considering I asked plenty of logical questions that have gone ignored and unanswered my case is pretty strong.

you have?

Of course it's not an opinion shared by everyone, hence the, you know, arguing going on about the point. And you're reaching like a mug now. Walt would have grabbed it immediately if he planned to murk Mike? And how do you know this exactly? Can't I turn around and say he would have grabbed it immediately if he was afraid Mike was going to kill him? You really think you can make an argument based on him zipping the bag up?

No because he wasn't "afraid Mike was going to kill him" at that point in time. The fact that he immediately zipped up the bag showed that while he was apprehensive about meeting up with Mike, he didn't feel he had to fear for his life.

Don't put to much stock in the "afraid of Mike..." because he really wasn't. He picked up the gun as "protection." Either way, the main argument here is whether the murder was premeditated. There was enough shown to clearly state that it wasn't. If you wanted it to be clearer by hearing an inner monologue of what Walt is thinking, or a long boring scene of Walt seeming indecisive right before meeting with Mike then idk what to tell you. You're asking for too much. It was a good scene, well written, and it's no shocker that the writer's have backed up what me and hex have been saying since Sunday.

And a simple question I would like for someone to try and answer. What good is bringing the gun for protection yet leaving it in the car if you're worried a damn professional assassin is going to kill you? You think Mike needs a gun to kill Walt? What good is your gun for protection when you leave it in the car and end up getting strangled to death or stabbed?

read above...we can read into that as Walt saying to himself "we're just gonna talk it out, Mike is gonna thank me for helping out, and everything is gonna be fine. I'll just leave the gun here just in case...he's not gonna miss it."

And idk why, but I'm not entirely sure Walt left the gun in the car. I'll have to watch the scene again

Edit: All you're doing right now is pointing out the indecisiveness of Walt leading up to him finally pulling the trigger. There's no "good writing" that can explain indecisiveness. Either you peep it which some of us did, or you don't. But you can't use indecisiveness to determine premeditation....it doesn't make sense. The writer's showed multiple signs of Walt's indecisiveness (the uncertainty about the gun in the bag before zipping it up, the uncertainty to walk away from Mike when the discussion ended, the apologies at the end) and you're arguing bad writing because you could theoretically dream up a scenario where Walt planned to shoot Mike in spite of those scenes. Sorry breh, I can't cosign that

 

[Francis White]

Your case is strong to who? Not everyone

the scene wasn't sloppily written. Walt saw the gun, and immediately zipped the bag up. If he planned to murk out Mike...he would've immediately grabbed it. That scene was put in there to show that it wasn't premeditated. He had to fight with himself about what to do about the gun, which led to him deciding to pick it up. What was sloppily written about that?

You are correct here 100% and i don't always agree with your Sky stanning but there was nothing wrong with the scene at all.

 

[JMurder]

You are correct here 100% and i don't always agree with your Sky stanning but there was nothing wrong with the scene at all.

I don't stan Sky, I stan her position (and decisions) which is gonna end up getting her killed


The character could've been written in a more sympathetic tone although I personally don't think anything could've been done to make ppl choose her over Walt.

Idk

 

[JMurder]

Not yet, I'm on the 4th ep of S3. Staying out this thread but I did see last weeks ep.

 

[obarth]

I mean they write themselves into corners, and sometimes it isn't cleanly solved. I like that the show has balls. They needed Mike and Walt to meet in a secluded location, and in order to get there, they needed Mike to have to leave his GD.

In a show that is more realistic than anything else right now, I'll take it.

Great post breh. It's nice seeing someone with objectivity. The thing is, other cats seem hell bent on trying to act like any flaw brought up about this show is just cats not getting the point. Don't insult people's intelligence. Nobody has even questioned the brilliance of the show, we just pointed out some flaws in writing that any show will have because no show has writers that are infallible. The creator of the show has stated plenty of times that they write this show as they go. Is it farfetched that that kind of strategy can lead to a plot hole or sloppy scene every once in a blue moon?

you have?

No because he wasn't "afraid Mike was going to kill him" at that point in time. The fact that he immediately zipped up the bag showed that while he was apprehensive about meeting up with Mike, he didn't feel he had to fear for his life.

Don't put to much stock in the "afraid of Mike..." because he really wasn't. He picked up the gun as "protection." Either way, the main argument here is whether the murder was premeditated. There was enough shown to clearly state that it wasn't. If you wanted it to be clearer by hearing an inner monologue of what Walt is thinking, or a long boring scene of Walt seeming indecisive right before meeting with Mike then idk what to tell you. You're asking for too much. It was a good scene, well written, and it's no shocker that the writer's have backed up what me and hex have been saying since Sunday.

read above...we can read into that as Walt saying to himself "we're just gonna talk it out, Mike is gonna thank me for helping out, and everything is gonna be fine. I'll just leave the gun here just in case...he's not gonna miss it."

And idk why, but I'm not entirely sure Walt left the gun in the car. I'll have to watch the scene again

Edit: All you're doing right now is pointing out the indecisiveness of Walt leading up to him finally pulling the trigger. There's no "good writing" that can explain indecisiveness. Either you peep it which some of us did, or you don't. But you can't use indecisiveness to determine premeditation....it doesn't make sense. The writer's showed multiple signs of Walt's indecisiveness (the uncertainty about the gun in the bag before zipping it up, the uncertainty to walk away from Mike when the discussion ended, the apologies at the end) and you're arguing bad writing because you could theoretically dream up a scenario where Walt planned to shoot Mike in spite of those scenes. Sorry breh, I can't cosign that

Yes, I have made logical points that have gone unanswered. You proved so in this post. I ask why Walt didn't immediately pick up the gun if he felt he needed protection. You tell me he wasn't afraid at that point in time? So the car ride to meet him is what convinced him he needed protection? You're making way more assumptions right now than someone who notices a guy took a gun, killed someone with a gun, and believes there was some form of premeditation in the act.

Walt, Jesse and Saul have a convo about Mike right before Walt goes to meet him. Saul is clearly insinuating the possibility that Mike may be a risk as far as getting caught and flipping. Then Mike calls Saul not knowing Walt and Jesse are there in advance and asks Saul to bring him the go bag. He wasn't even planning on seeing Walt before he left, it just happened that way. If he wanted to set up Walt wouldn't he call him specifically and ask him to bring the bag? Or was Saul in on some plot to get Mike close to Walt, arranged a meeting with Walt and Jesse and planned to have Mike call at that time and knew Walt would volunteer to go? There is no reason to assume Mike had any inclination to harm Walt at that point in the game. You guys have sat there and watched Walt walk into much more dangerous situations while leaving himself vulnerable yet feeling secure because he thought everything through, but want to act like this isn't one of those situations?

I'll try and say it again...I'm not saying that clapping Mike is something he knew he was definitely going to do, but it was an option based on if he gave the names up. His ego being bruised in the process of trying to do that was the ultimate catalyst in what ended up happening. The creators of the show have stated he took the gun for protection, cool. They did a sloppy job of portraying it on screen. There was no indication of indecisiveness when he opened the bag. He had the same look on his face the entire time. Obviously he notices the gun and thinks something about seeing it. Claiming it's obviously indecisiveness displayed on his face is a lie. He does his best to get Mike to give him the names (asks him multiple times during their exchange) gets heated that Mike says no, get's his ego hurt by Mike saying it's all his fault and claps him.

To say I'm clearly wrong based on what I clearly saw going on on screen is stanning at it's finest. There's a scene of three guys talking about Mike being a risk of getting them all locked up and then a scene of one of those guys noticing Mike's gun. Then a scene of one of those guys killing Mike when he refuses to give up the names. Looking at it in that general sense the implication is obvious. When you start breaking it down even more, the fact that the implication is still a valid possibility points to the ambiguity of the whole thing.