"Black people were better off during the Jim Crow era"-the coli

[Malt-O-Meal]

People in here are being really obtuse. The civil rights movement and results up to now weren't perfect, it's ok, it wasn't meant to be and it'll take many more years to fix the injustices done and occurring towards black people. It's ok to criticize or examine the results thus far, it's how you improve. Most people I've heard or seen write are critical about the after affects of the black community. I've never heard anyone say blacks had it easier or that segregation of facilities like restrooms/ transportation was better. Never.

The few people I've heard voice criticisms are talking about the unity of the black community back then versus now. Yes it appeared to be more united but people oversimplified it. They were more united because they had no choice.

Overall I'm fine with the criticism even when it's disrespectful, it creates dialogue and reminds us that there's much more that needs to be done. The problem with this site is many of y'all think you're smarter than everyone else and like to belittle people with differing opinions. I'm pretty sure people who were criticizing Jim Crow back then were told to shut up at let they're not slaves anymore. We should never be complacent.

And screw being a community of worker bees, yes we need to own more businesses and production. How many news reports, articles, and whatnot do we need to hear about how difficult it is for black people to secure internships, employment, proper pay, etc. Not everyone will or wants to own a business but let those who want to aspire to do so. That will definitely improve our community, every other race/group hires themselves first and gives their own breaks. We can too if we own businesses.

 

[Malt-O-Meal]

And what's with all this "talking to old people"? Many members here are African American and their families lived through Jim Crow, I'm pretty sure they know more about it than any newly imigrated people. Most people's parents, grandparents, etc were alive during that time and more than likely discussed it with them.

 

[D-NICE]

People in here are being really obtuse. The civil rights movement and results up to now weren't perfect, it's ok, it wasn't meant to be and it'll take many more years to fix the injustices done and occurring towards black people. It's ok to criticize or examine the results thus far, it's how you improve. Most people I've heard or seen write are critical about the after affects of the black community. I've never heard anyone say blacks had it easier or that segregation of facilities like restrooms/ transportation was better. Never.

The few people I've heard voice criticisms are talking about the unity of the black community back then versus now. Yes it appeared to be more united but people oversimplified it. They were more united because they had no choice.

Overall I'm fine with the criticism even when it's disrespectful, it creates dialogue and reminds us that there's much more that needs to be done. The problem with this site is many of y'all think you're smarter than everyone else and like to belittle people with differing opinions. I'm pretty sure people who were criticizing Jim Crow back then were told to shut up at let they're not slaves anymore. We should never be complacent.

And screw being a community of worker bees, yes we need to own more businesses and production. How many news reports, articles, and whatnot do we need to hear about how difficult it is for black people to secure internships, employment, proper pay, etc. Not everyone will or wants to own a business but let those who want to aspire to do so. That will definitely improve our community, every other race/group hires themselves first and gives their own breaks. We can too if we own businesses.

That first sentence been needed to be said around here.


As far as the second, I was about to say something earlier about that earlier but I ain't feel like looking up sources. Wasn't it like 20% of the black population actually supported the civil rights movement? I know majority of them out there were young, like teens or early twenties. nikka's back then probably told them to quit whining too.

 

[AJaRuleStan]

Conservatives and Libertarians love to talk about the failure of liberal policies. But they never talk about solutions. If Thomas Sowell knows so much, why doesn't he tell us the solution to poverty in the inner city. Easy to point out where the doer of deeds fail instead of proposing solutions. There are parts of this country where the free market fails. Do conservatives/libertarians have solutions to those problems.

Knowing Thomas Sowell work so well, he would first preface with this in response to the word "solution": there are no SOLUTIONS, only TRADE-OFFS. Meaning, there is no perfect outcome or a way to make everyone happy in life, there will always be losers and that will just have to be tolerated because no human or society has the power to control the vast amount variables that it would take to make everyone happy. What you can do is find the best trade off that will produce the most gain for the least loss.

So on this subject, besides the general free market system, I would assume that Thomas Sowell would recommend that minimum wage needs to be removed, revert educational standards to the high standards of the past or give parents choice on where to send their kids for education with the use of voucher system, tax schemes, or etc. Tough on crime stance must stay intact, and keep standards for college acceptance equal for all groups to prevent mismatching.

Of course you would come in and post a garbage c00n ass Thomas Sowell video.

There is no life quality index measure that would indicate that black life was of a higher quality pre-1965 than it is today. There was more poverty, less well-paying jobs, no social safety net, unequal access to public resources like schools, hospitals, etc., high school graduation rates were awful, loan discrimination, redlining, only 3% of black people graduated from college, police brutality wasn't a national outrage it was a given part of black life, lynching was still going on and sundown towns were prevalent all over the country, and in the most progressive locales you could still be arrested, beat up or killed for walking too far and crossing an imaginary line out of your designated ghetto. There was no freedom or agency to go wherever you want and do whatever you think might make you happy.

There isn't one black person who lived in the Jim Crow days that wouldn't trade places with us today.

You don't understand Thomas Sowell's position: First, he has never argued that blacks had a higher standard of living prior to the 60s, or that racism was less prevalent. That is a complete strawman on your part. He has stated multiple times that black kids today are better off materialistically than he was as a child, and that racism has drastically decreased from his era. What he has argued is that certain socioeconomical data collected(crime, violence, drug addiction, fatherless children and other signs of social degeneration) about blacks since the end of slavery up until present indicates that black culture was far better off in the values that it held prior to the 60s. But not only that, the data seems to suggest that blacks were on a trend, a trajectory of sorts, similar to what Asian Americans had during their growth as a group. This is very important to note because Thomas Sowell concludes -- based on his research on culture and disparities in wealth in world history -- that culture is the explanatory variable for why some groups have risen to success and why some have lagged, rather than discrimination. So in point, if you relieve ppl from the challenge of survival and common decency, you set the stage for social retrogressions which will limit the potential of that group to advance. That's Thomas Sowell position.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

What he has argued is that certain socioeconomical data collected(crime, violence, drug addiction, fatherless children and other signs of social degeneration) about blacks since the end of slavery up until present indicates that black culture was far better off in the values that it held prior to the 60s.

But this is not true by any measure.

Gotta start with the truth if you want to make a valid argument.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Knowing Thomas Sowell work so well, he would first preface with this in response to the word "solution": there are no SOLUTIONS, only TRADE-OFFS. Meaning, there is no perfect outcome or a way to make everyone happy in life, there will always be losers and that will just have to be tolerated because no human or society has the power to control the vast amount variables that it would take to make everyone happy. What you can do is find the best trade off that will produce the most gain for the least loss.

So on this subject, besides the general free market system, I would assume that Thomas Sowell would recommend that minimum wage needs to be removed, revert educational standards to the high standards of the past or give parents choice on where to send their kids for education with the use of voucher system, tax schemes, or etc. Tough on crime stance must stay intact, and keep standards for college acceptance equal for all groups to prevent mismatching.



You don't understand Thomas Sowell's position: First, he has never argued that blacks had a higher standard of living prior to the 60s, or that racism was less prevalent. That is a complete strawman on your part. He has stated multiple times that black kids today are better off materialistically than he was as a child, and that racism has drastically decreased from his era. What he has argued is that certain socioeconomical data collected(crime, violence, drug addiction, fatherless children and other signs of social degeneration) about blacks since the end of slavery up until present indicates that black culture was far better off in the values that it held prior to the 60s. But not only that, the data seems to suggest that blacks were on a trend, a trajectory of sorts, similar to what Asian Americans had during their growth as a group. This is very important to note because Thomas Sowell concludes -- based on his research on culture and disparities in wealth in world history -- that culture is the explanatory variable for why some groups have risen to success and why some have lagged, rather than discrimination. So in point, if you relieve ppl from the challenge of survival and common decency, you set the stage for social retrogressions which will limit the potential of that group to advance. That's Thomas Sowell position.

I know exactly what Thomas Sowell says and it's bullshyt. I was speaking to the poster about the premise of the OP, not Sowell's ideology. Pay better attention. All Sowell does is echo white supremacist positions steeped in notions of black pathology.

The increase on crime in black communities is a direct result of post-great migration deindustrialization and white flight over the backdrop of structural racism in convergence with the new drug economy of the ghetto and the drug war, which intentionally targeted black people (as Nixon aides have come out and admitted). Culture as a primary motivating factor, as if culture just fell out of the sky, removed from socioeconomic conditions is flawed and intellectually lazy.

Aren't you white btw?

 

[yyy]

Knowing Thomas Sowell work so well, he would first preface with this in response to the word "solution": there are no SOLUTIONS, only TRADE-OFFS. Meaning, there is no perfect outcome or a way to make everyone happy in life, there will always be losers and that will just have to be tolerated because no human or society has the power to control the vast amount variables that it would take to make everyone happy. What you can do is find the best trade off that will produce the most gain for the least loss.

So on this subject, besides the general free market system, I would assume that Thomas Sowell would recommend that minimum wage needs to be removed, revert educational standards to the high standards of the past or give parents choice on where to send their kids for education with the use of voucher system, tax schemes, or etc. Tough on crime stance must stay intact, and keep standards for college acceptance equal for all groups to prevent mismatching.



You don't understand Thomas Sowell's position: First, he has never argued that blacks had a higher standard of living prior to the 60s, or that racism was less prevalent. That is a complete strawman on your part. He has stated multiple times that black kids today are better off materialistically than he was as a child, and that racism has drastically decreased from his era. What he has argued is that certain socioeconomical data collected(crime, violence, drug addiction, fatherless children and other signs of social degeneration) about blacks since the end of slavery up until present indicates that black culture was far better off in the values that it held prior to the 60s. But not only that, the data seems to suggest that blacks were on a trend, a trajectory of sorts, similar to what Asian Americans had during their growth as a group. This is very important to note because Thomas Sowell concludes -- based on his research on culture and disparities in wealth in world history -- that culture is the explanatory variable for why some groups have risen to success and why some have lagged, rather than discrimination. So in point, if you relieve ppl from the challenge of survival and common decency, you set the stage for social retrogressions which will limit the potential of that group to advance. That's Thomas Sowell position.

I've read a lot so usually I would respond but I have to go to the library and do some studying. Also, your post is interesting from the aspect that you never say what you think, but rather only what Thomas Sowell believes. Black conservatives/libertarians have some points but in my opinion there argument falls flat when you look at how the U.S. economy actually developed. The white middle class as we know it was created by the post WWII G.I. bill. Farmers have been getting subsidies from the government for years. Non-Black Americans were given large swaths of land in the west and the midwest for free. Railroads were given subsidies to link the nation together. MLK has a great line in one of his speeches that goes, and I'm paraphrasing, "What some people really believe is capitalism for the poor and socialism for the rich." If the government tries to help the poor, people scream bloody murder but when it comes to helping the rich they are silent.

Does Thomas Sowell hit gas subsidies and ethanol subsidies and corporation subsidies as hard as he hits governmental programs for the poor? Does Thomas Sowell talk about individual suffering and the government role in limiting it? Does Thomas Sowell talk about legacy admits to schools? Lastly I disagree with Thomas Sowell's notion on trade-offs. For example, the United States is a better country without slavery and jim crow. To put it in economical terms that's not a trade-off where we moved on the utility curve but a shift where we produced a better society. So the notion that everything is a trade-off is just not true. The issue is to figure out how to best improve things, rather than argue that anything and everything that can ever be attempted will fail. This article is a good example. The Worst Thing Bill Clinton Has Done. My last question for you is this. Let's say that everything that Thomas Sowell espouses is implemented tomorrow. Will Black people be better off?

 

[TheNig]

This is not true


This is not true

Black business is growing

Only people believing in the statement in the OP are those of you who have bad information

He says its in decline and gave an example. You say its growing and claim he's been misinformed, which is fine, but it would be nice if you could back that up with some evidence.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

He says its in decline and gave an example. You say its growing and claim he's been misinformed, which is fine, but it would be nice if you could back that up with some evidence.

Why the Growth of Black Businesses is Skyrocketing


The fastest-growing group of entrepreneurs in America

 

[Larry Lambo]

Why don't yall just ask people in their 70's and 80's how they feel about this topic? They have lived it and should be able to provide proper insight.

 

[Gravity]

Lol ok so what variable would you cite to make the case that black life was better during the Jim Crow days?

This thread just shows how much of a simple c00n you are purp lips. You started this thread on a false premise and straw man argument. The argument is not that "black life was better during Jim Crow". The argument is that integration hasn't helped the black community and that the black community is just as disenfranchised/weak as before integration. You can most certainly make the argument that were worse off now than we were before integration.

Yes there were more blacks living in poverty during overt segregation but there where more whites living in poverty during that time as well. It's like you never heard of the war on poverty and the creation of all of the social programs that came with it. The poverty rate was like 20% before Johnson created the social programs(Medicaid, Medicare, permanent food stamp program, ect) in '64 and it hasn't dropped below 15% since.

You didn't even make an argument here. You just posted some graph and made some feminine ass sarcastic comments arguing against a straw man that you created? What exactly is your point here? That the democrats and their policies have actually been beneficial to blacks? That integration has actually been beneficial to blacks? I just skimmed the thread and I haven't seen you come out and directly make a detailed argument coming saying those things, and the reason is because you know it's bullshyt. The social programs may help keep more blacks out of poverty but they also help handicap the community and keep it weak and dependent, maintaining the status quo which is white supremacy. Any benefits that came with integration were due to the actual alleviation of systematic white supremacy, not allowing blacks to patronize private white businesses.

The truth is that segregation and Jim Crow never really ended, they just changed forms. This country is still pretty much segregated and we still have two sets of laws for whites and blacks. The only thing that integration did was deflect from systematic white supremacy giving blacks this false perception of white acceptance which has lulled blacks to sleep. So no, you and de rest of these democratic liberal left c00ns are still wrong. The people who call out the civil rights generation for selling out for integration and how that hasn't helped the black community, are absolutely right.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

First off, this makes no sense cause if integration failed then black people wouldn't be better off now, but anyway.

The argument is that integration hasn't helped the black community and that the black community is just as disenfranchised/weak as before integration.

Let's hear this argument.

Let's get some facts, and examples that prove this statement to be true.

 

[Taadow]

And screw being a community of worker bees, yes we need to own more businesses and production. How many news reports, articles, and whatnot do we need to hear about how difficult it is for black people to secure internships, employment, proper pay, etc. Not everyone will or wants to own a business but let those who want to aspire to do so. That will definitely improve our community, every other race/group hires themselves first and gives their own breaks. We can too if we own businesses.

How many news reports, articles and whatnot do you need to read or hear about to see it's just as hard (if not harder)
for black people to secure business loans, property for such business etc?

It's niccas on here who juxtaposed the price of starting a business with the cost of Jordans. Serially.
It costs more than that just for permits a lot of times...that's not even determining the cost of operating a business
once it's established.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with "aspiring" to own a business, but that's not a magic trick that will
save our "community" if more people start doing it.

 

[Gravity]

First off, this makes no sense cause if integration failed then black people wouldn't be better off now, but anyway.



Let's hear this argument.

Let's get some facts, and examples that prove this statement to be true.

Black peopoe are not better off now. You're an irrational liberal left c00n and it's a waste of time arguing/debating with you.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Black peopoe are not better off now. You're an irrational liberal left c00n and it's a waste of time arguing/debating with you.

In your last post you just said black people are better off