black feminism/womanism thread

[Onlooker]

I'm not even going to touch that "the concept of gender is oppressive" nonsense.

The belief in the idea that black women have it harder than black men is important to this discussion because that's what black feminism movement is based on. Black feminism started in the 70's when some black women jumped ship from the civil rights/black power movements complaining about black men. White women got in some black women's ear which was all orchestrated by the government as a way to disrupt black unity/power. Again, black women face unfair treatment but not because they're women it's because they're black. Black women can't empower themselves without working to empower black people as a whole. Black men and women are connected at the hip, you can't have one without the other.

The fact that you believe black feminism is based on a pissing match between BW and BM goes to show that you don't know what the movement is truly about. Black feminism has existed way before the 70s, it's just that, in those times BW weren't calling themselves feminists. I would even go as far as to claim that BW are the original feminists.

As a BW, I have experienced first hand mistreatment because I am black and female. Many BW can and will attest to that so I'm not sure who you are trying to convince. You and several others keep going on about black feminism being divisive but pro feminism is not anti male just like pro black isn't anti white. Black feminists can and do support their community so I wonder who is really being divisive here? Anti black feminists or black feminists? If there is a movement that empowers women to take care of themselves, utilize their unique skills and talents and become good leaders in their community instead of allowing some ridiculous system to tell them otherwise just because they have two X chromosomes why not support it? Black feminism is not saying BM are useless and need to be replaced but that BW are just as capable as BM and vice versa.

The thing many people fail to understand is that BW are at the bottom in society therefore when we win, everyone wins.

 

[Digga38]

 

[Gravity]

The fact that you believe black feminism is based on a pissing match between BW and BM goes to show that you don't know what the movement is truly about.

It is though. In the 70's some black women jumped ship from the black power movements to advocate for themselves. That's how the black feminist movement was created.

Black feminism has existed way before the 70s, it's just that, in those times BW weren't calling themselves feminists. I would even go as far as to claim that BW are the original feminists.

While there were
Black women who sought to empower themselves and the black community(don't leave that part out) before the 70's, they weren't part of a movement that separated black women from black men. Ida Wells was an advocate for black women and black men. She wasn't just advocating for black women. The mentality that black women only need to worry about and look out for black women was born in the 70s.

As a BW, I have experienced first hand mistreatment because I am black and female. Many BW can and will attest to that so I'm not sure who you are trying to convince.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Who are you trying to convince? I'm stating my thoughts views on the subject.

We are talking systemic oppression, not isolated incidents of mistreatment. Racism trumps perceived sexism in this society which is why white women are infinitely more privileged than black men.

You and several others keep going on about black feminism being divisive but pro feminism is not anti male just like pro black isn't anti white. Black feminists can and do support their community so I wonder who is really being divisive here?

We are talking about black feminism the movement that started in the 70s itself. Not the general idea that women should have the same rights as men. Black feminism has never been about equal rights, it's always just been an advocacy group for some black women.

List some examples of how the black feminist movement has supported the black community. What have they accomplished for blacks since the 70s?

If there is a movement that empowers women to take care of themselves, utilize their unique skills and talents and become good leaders in their community instead of allowing some ridiculous system to tell them otherwise just because they have two X chromosomes why not support it?

Who are all of these community leaders that the black feminist movement has produced? If black feminism were actually empowering women and in turn empowering the black community I wouldn't be against it. It hasn't done those things though. I can't name anything that has been accomplished by black feminism that has aided the black community. I only see the harm that it has caused.

Black feminism is not saying BM are useless and need to be replaced but that BW are just as capable as BM and vice versa.

You're being disingenuous I f you can't be honest about the black man bashing element of black feminism.

The thing many people fail to understand is that BW are at the bottom in society therefore when we win, everyone wins.

Black people are at the bottom of society, not just black women. That's the problem with your ideology.

 

[Sk3ptical]

i cant support this movement

 

[wet landscapes]

This discussion is not very fruitful - it seems to be swinging wildly from one extreme to the other

I'm only on page 8 hoping the conversation switches back to people dropping knowledge instead of fighting
nobody ever learns anything during these fights breh

 

[wet landscapes]

let's examine it.

what values are BW instilling in their sons that make them believe it's okay to hit or even murder a BW? it's not like these young males hopped out the womb, ready to "subjugate" the black woman. i'm focused soley on the parent(s) when it comes to this issue. you have violent single mothers that raise violent children, it's as simple as that, imo.

where were you expecting him to pull the facts from to answer that? There is no concensus for the values black mothers teaching their kids in 2015
If you're just gonna lead people into dead end arguments over opinions and perceptions instead of research and statistics, what's the point in arguing?

 

[CriticalThought]

Can't put the genie back in the bottle.

With the whole street harassment shyt they were pushing. Plenty of black feminists showed they're more than willing to throw us under the bus for their own agenda. When brothas told you it was false they still rode. When we told you it was going to used to attack innocent black men who cared? They didn't. Or what about when Omar was talking about building that school (which needs to be done country wide)...who came for him? Black feminists. Who gave Oprah shyt for setting up an all girls school in South Africa? Nobody. Any massive movements or campaigns by black men against "Black girls rock". Nope.

I don't hear black men saying they won't/don't support black women. I only hear that from them. I've never heard black men expecting black women to support black men "who hate them". Yet we're supposed to turn a blind all to all of this. I guess this is some 2015 form of black male drapetomania?

 

[NoMoreWhiteWoman2020]

I havent been able to respond in detail because my workload has been crazy this last day but I have a lot of thoughts to share; glad to see others dialoguing about the topic

 

[PlainSight]

I'm only on page 8 hoping the conversation switches back to people dropping knowledge instead of fighting
nobody ever learns anything during these fights breh

Hasn't progressed that far since then either

This kind of discussion is a bit pointless on a forum like The Coli though so - I was still kinda happy to see it brought up because I'd like to hear more views about it. I'm not a feminist but I'm not dismissive of it either.

 

[wet landscapes]

I havent been able to respond in detail because my workload has been crazy this last day but I have a lot of thoughts to share; glad to see others dialoguing about the topic

can you drop some links for some good reading on inclusive black womanism?

Hasn't progressed that far since then either

This kind of discussion is a bit pointless on a forum like The Coli though so - I was still kinda happy to see it brought up because I'd like to hear more views about it. I'm not a feminist but I'm not dismissive of it either.

I think discussions on female anything in non-female spaces on the internet end up like this
it's always been this way too, whats up with that

 

[RAX 010]

That's completely fukking stupid .

Its completely fukkin accurate tho

 

[Northern Son]

Its completely fukkin accurate tho

I assure you feminism has nothing to do with ghetto gaggers (or whatever abomination that is). Patriarchy has nothing to do with that woman punching a racist cop either. You really think there's causation there? Feminism and a misogynist porn created by white men to degrade black women??

Both images are "after" black feminism for the record.

 

[Onlooker]

It is though. In the 70's some black women jumped ship from the black power movements to advocate for themselves. That's how the black feminist movement was created.

While there were
Black women who sought to empower themselves and the black community(don't leave that part out) before the 70's, they weren't part of a movement that separated black women from black men. Ida Wells was an advocate for black women and black men. She wasn't just advocating for black women. The mentality that black women only need to worry about and look out for black women was born in the 70s.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Who are you trying to convince? I'm stating my thoughts views on the subject.

We are talking systemic oppression, not isolated incidents of mistreatment. Racism trumps perceived sexism in this society which is why white women are infinitely more privileged than black men.


We are talking about black feminism the movement that started in the 70s itself. Not the general idea that women should have the same rights as men. Black feminism has never been about equal rights, it's always just been an advocacy group for some black women.

List some examples of how the black feminist movement has supported the black community. What have they accomplished for blacks since the 70s?

Who are all of these community leaders that the black feminist movement has produced? If black feminism were actually empowering women and in turn empowering the black community I wouldn't be against it. It hasn't done those things though. I can't name anything that has been accomplished by black feminism that has aided the black community. I only see the harm that it has caused.

You're being disingenuous I f you can't be honest about the black man bashing element of black feminism.

Black people are at the bottom of society, not just black women. That's the problem with your ideology.

As I stated before (somewhere itt), I do not deny that there are people who misuse the movement however there are many more who do not. Here's some insight: no matter the organization and how honest and pure its intention/action is there will always, always, be people who manipulate it for their own gain (i.e. religion, social services, donations, etc). To judge a group by its worse is like non-blacks stereotyping black people by their worse. Yes, bad black people exist but that's does mean we are all bad. The same goes for feminism. If you do not care to understand the movement and want to continue to misinterpret it just know you are further validating the black feminist movement thus making your beliefs and/or efforts futile. You all wonder why there are some black feminists out here who bash BM, well, maybe if BM had taken time to listen and uplift instead of trying to suppress and control BW then they wouldn't be so bitter. I'm not saying to accept BM bashing but try to understand why these people do it. I'm sure it's not for no reason.

On the topic of BW enduring a double dosage of gender and racial discrimination I'm not going to into it with you since it's clear that you have no intention of listening to me and rather hand wave my experiences as a BW in order to force your ignorance on me. I don't see how you can acknowledge that sexism exist yet conclude that BW don't suffer from it. If we are talking solely of race, yes, black people are at the bottom but society happens to be more complicated than that, so, I don't understand your logic of race trumping gender yet, somehow, BW are not below BM in society. Ok.

The reason you haven't seen the good that black feminism does is because you don't want to see it. Instead you look at and concentrate on all of the "negative" things labelled feminism because that is what suits your purpose: to tear it down.

 

[Gravity]

As I stated before (somewhere itt), I do not deny that there are people who misuse the movement however there are many more who do not. Here's some insight: no matter the organization and how honest and pure its intention/action is there will always, always, be people who manipulate it for their own gain (i.e. religion, social services, donations, etc). To judge a group by its worse is like non-blacks stereotyping black people by their worse. Yes, bad black people exist but that's does mean we are all bad. The same goes for feminism. If you do not care to understand the movement and want to continue to misinterpret it just know you are further validating the black feminist movement thus making your beliefs and/or efforts futile. You all wonder why there are some black feminists out here who bash BM, well, maybe if BM had taken time to listen and uplift instead of trying to suppress and control BW then they wouldn't be so bitter. I'm not saying to accept BM bashing but try to understand why these people do it. I'm sure it's not for no reason.

This is just one big deflection. You didn't directly address much of anything that I said. You want to dismiss all criticisms of the black feminist movements with "don't let a few bad apples ruin your opinion of the bunch". I haven't even used one or a select few black feminists to generalize all black feminists. I've actually challenged feminism as an ideology. Did you not get that? My position is that from it's inception it's been used as a weapon against the black community to disrupt power and unity. You can trace this back to Gloria Steinem the CIA agent who promoted "Black Macho and the Myth of the Superwoman" in her magazine. That book is basically the credo for black feminism as we know it now.

On the topic of BW enduring a double dosage of gender and racial discrimination I'm not going to into it with you since it's clear that you have no intention of listening to me and rather hand wave my experiences as a BW in order to force your ignorance on me.

Stop it with all the histrionics. I'm not forcing anything on you. I listen quite well. Just because I don't agree with what you're saying doesn't mean that I'm not listening.

I don't see how you can acknowledge that sexism exist yet conclude that BW don't suffer from it. If we are talking solely of race, yes, black people are at the bottom but society happens to be more complicated than that, so, I don't understand your logic of race trumping gender yet, somehow, BW are not below BM in society. Ok.

You're the one on some simple Simon shyt. Things are more complicated than you're making them out to be. Sexism only exists in relation to white men. There is no black male sexism in this society. The black man is public enemy #1. You can cry about sexism all you want, but if you were a black man you would have an even bigger target on your back. You don't think that black men face specific and more intense forms of discrimination/disenfranchisement due to being black men? If you don't then you need a clue. Some black women want it both ways depending on the discussion. In one breath you're complaining about not being able to find suitable mates because black women are supposedly outpacing black men so badly, but in the next breath you want to pretend as if black women are discriminated against the most.

The reason you haven't seen the good that black feminism does is because you don't want to see it. Instead you look at and concentrate on all of the "negative" things labelled feminism because that is what suits your purpose: to tear it down.

Apparently there's nothing good to see. I asked a simple direct question and all you can do is deflect. I'll ask you again. What some things that black feminism has accomplished for the black community in the last 40 or so years? Almost a half of century of talking about so called empowerment, so who have they empowered and how?

 

[Biscayne]

Here is a question: what exact proponents of black feminism are incompatible with our success as a community?

Many times I think we're so eager to emulate other cultures that we dismiss the good components of our traditional cultural ways.
In traditional black culture gender issues weren't even a factor and our community was stronger for it. Anthropologists always draw comparisons towards the egalitarian nature of traditional African cultures and western culture.

However in our desire to imitate Western culture we've inherited their divisive gender issues as well.

This is true. There's been evidence of matriarchal societies some(key word) historical West African societies.