Black/Brown coalition chronicles: After Outcry Over Racist Remarks, Nury Martinez Resigns As LA City Council President, Takes Leave Of Absence

[Professor Emeritus]

it's a good thing that trump won. My main beef with trump is that he's an idiot it's not ideological

I just had to point this out. Same shyt happened in TLR - the biggest enemies of this supposed "Black-Brown coalition" always end up being Trump supporters.

So yeah, if you support Trump then you probably think that Black and Brown people ever agreeing on anything in order to keep right-wing racist Whites out of power is a bad thing. But if you don't support Trump....

 

[theworldismine13]

I just had to point this out. Same shyt happened in TLR - the biggest enemies of this supposed "Black-Brown coalition" always end up being Trump supporters.

So yeah, if you support Trump then you probably think that Black and Brown people ever agreeing on anything in order to keep right-wing racist Whites out of power is a bad thing. But if you don't support Trump....

I'm not a trump supporter, I simply practice what I preach

 

[theworldismine13]

But it wouldn't. I spelled that out. In the Republican party, they aren't going to do jack shyt of substance for Black people because even if a substantial # of Black folk voted for them, their hardcore racist white base will still be FAR larger, so any move to appease Black people will alienate their base. That's what Nixon strategist Kevin Phillips openly said when he instituted the Southern Strategy.

but before the civil rights the opposite was true of rep and dems, and both parties have always hard a hardcore racist white base

So politics are fluid

Black people went from republican to Democrat, there is no reason why now we can't be more neutral

Everything I'm saying is perfectly sensible and logical unless you are a left wing extremist with an agenda

On the other hand, why the fukk would Democrats become more pro-Black if Black people joined the Republican party? If those Black people were attracted to anti-black, right-wing Republicans, then who would be stupid enough to think being pro-Black and left-wing would somehow win them back? Either the Democrats would become more right-wing, or they would just pivot to working harder to attract non-Black voters, but they would have zero incentive to be more pro-Black.



And you're also ignoring that judges nominated by Republicans work to block all explicitly pro-Black legisilation. So even if the Democrats DID become more pro-Black after losing the Black vote to Republicans, it would be for shyt because you've just packed the courts with judges who would then block all of it just like they blocked the Black farmer aid.



So democrats are anti black covertly and republicans are anti black explicitly

That's like claiming, "Republicans are gay covertly and Democrats are gay explicitly" or "Democrats are pro-abortion explicitly and Republicans are pro-abortion covertly".

If you're an anti-Black democrat, you can get away with it if you keep it a secret, just like there are Republicans who do gay shyt or get abortions secretly. But in terms of actual public policy, no one has the slightest doubt which party is going to pass anti-Black legislation and nominate anti-Black judges.

But you're equating left wing and some crumbs they give to black people as pro black.

Pro black means black people controlling things and dictating terms, so that is the overall goal, it's a racial goal. as opposed to turning the us left wing which is a political goal

Immigration is a perfect example of racial goals of black people diverging from the political goals of left wing ideology

 

[Professor Emeritus]

but before the civil rights the opposite was true of rep and dems, and both parties have always hard a hardcore racist white base

So politics are fluid

I don't know if you've become Cac Mamba levels of disingenuous or just got Covid brain fog, but this is incredible bullshyt.

I pointed out to you that Republicans will never give up their huge racist white base for a far smaller # of Black voters. It would be especially stupid when most of those Black voters are concentrated in states they already win. And even the non-racist portion of their base doesn't want anything pro-Black because it would interfere with "state's rights" or "low taxes" or "individual responsibility" or their other stupid arguments. You haven't made the slightest argument for why they would alienate their biggest base in order to appeal to a far far smaller one.

Republicans and Democrats switched during the Civil Rights era because they started appealing to different groups of White people. It didn't have jack shyt to do with appealing to Black people because the #'s weren't there. In fact, after the Civil Rights Act the Democrats immediately LOST every state with a large Black population.

Everything I'm saying is perfectly sensible and logical unless you are a left wing extremist with an agenda

If that was true, then why have you spent the last week deflecting and misrepresenting rather than give your logic straight up?

I laid out in clear terms why "splitting the vote" would fukk over the Black community on both ends. It would make zero sense for Democrats to become more "pro-Black" in order to appeal to people who had just left them for an overtly anti-Black party. It would make zero sense for the Republicans to become more "pro-Black" in order to appeal to a small contingent of Black voters who had already jumped ship anyway and then alienate their far larger anti-black White base in the processs. And any increase in power to Republicans is an increase in anti-Black judges, who last longer than any vote.

You still have ignored all of that.

Pro black means black people controlling things and dictating terms, so that is the overall goal, it's a racial goal. as opposed to turning the us left wing which is a political goal

But how the fukk would "splitting the vote" help them control anything? It would just weaken their power in the Democratic Party and they sure as hell wouldn't be getting any power in the Republican party to compensate.

Immigration is a perfect example of racial goals of black people diverging from the political goals of left wing ideology

This is circular reasoning. As much as you can't stand it, the large majority of Black folk oppose White Supremacist immigration rhetoric and you still haven't shown why they're wrong.

 

[get these nets]

What LA's city council scandal says about race and political power​

October 15, 2022

8-Minute Listen

NPR's Michel Martin speaks with Loyola Marymount University political science professor Chaya Crowder about her research on the dynamics in Los Angeles.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Pro black means black people controlling things and dictating terms, so that is the overall goal, it's a racial goal. as opposed to turning the us left wing which is a political goal

I want to double down on this one for a second, because it's devoid of logic:


#1. Right now there is a Black man in the #3 position in the House and Black folk in charge of 5 House committees and some 20 subcommittees. Nearly all of them were voted into office by the Black people in their communities. If Black people "split the vote", then Republicans win control and all of that political power disappears, and what fukking Republican committees are going to be given to Black people representing Black districts?



#2. Black people "splitting the vote" would mean in several white-majority states, Republicans would take power from Democrats. Do you think the Republicans in power would then become more pro-Black than the Democrats they're replacing, even though that would alienate the 90% of their base in those states that is White AND violate all their supposed principles about "individual responsibility", "state's rights", "low taxes", not addressing civil rights issues, not caring about police and court discrimination, and so on?

You'd have to be a special kind of idiot to believe that Republicans would pull a 180 on all their commitments solely to appease a tiny portion of their voter base. They wouldn't give a single Black person in any of those states power unless they walked in lockstep with their pro-White agenda.



#3. Black people leaving the Democrats for a right-wing party that didn't try to cater to them wouldn't cause the Democrats to cater to them. At most it would make the Democrats more right-wing. Why would you cater to voters who had just left for a party that didn't cater to them at all, and risk losing moderates who were still with you? If anything it would just make the Democrats try to act more like Republicans and ignore Black issues, especially since to win any elections they'd need to attract more white voters to make up for the Black voters they had lost.



You claim that you want Black people to have power and control, but you advocate for a plan where all of the actual Black politicians voted in by Black voters would lose control in favor of White politicians voted in by White voters.

 

[theworldismine13]

I don't know if you've become Cac Mamba levels of disingenuous or just got Covid brain fog, but this is incredible bullshyt.

I pointed out to you that Republicans will never give up their huge racist white base for a far smaller # of Black voters. It would be especially stupid when most of those Black voters are concentrated in states they already win. And even the non-racist portion of their base doesn't want anything pro-Black because it would interfere with "state's rights" or "low taxes" or "individual responsibility" or their other stupid arguments. You haven't made the slightest argument for why they would alienate their biggest base in order to appeal to a far far smaller one.

Republicans and Democrats switched during the Civil Rights era because they started appealing to different groups of White people. It didn't have jack shyt to do with appealing to Black people because the #'s weren't there. In fact, after the Civil Rights Act the Democrats immediately LOST every state with a large Black population.

how is it bullshyt when its part of history, historically black people have voted republican, it wasnt until the 60's that it flipped, thats a fact

both parties have a hardcore racist white base and they always have, the only thing new is that there is a new group that has a hardcore racist white base ie latinos

thats the battlefield that black people are facing, the issue is does it behoove is to continue putting our chips in the democratic basket with Nuri "hes with the blacks" Martinez and Joe "prison industrial complex architect" Biden and Kamala "i wont do anything just for black people" Harris

my idea is not just an opinion its a prediction, as more black people get tired of the democratic party black people will start switching, there will be more and more warnock vs walker situations, which is a good thing

If that was true, then why have you spent the last week deflecting and misrepresenting rather than give your logic straight up?

I laid out in clear terms why "splitting the vote" would fukk over the Black community on both ends. It would make zero sense for Democrats to become more "pro-Black" in order to appeal to people who had just left them for an overtly anti-Black party. It would make zero sense for the Republicans to become more "pro-Black" in order to appeal to a small contingent of Black voters who had already jumped ship anyway and then alienate their far larger anti-black White base in the processs. And any increase in power to Republicans is an increase in anti-Black judges, who last longer than any vote.

You still have ignored all of that.

again, you're confused,

lets replay what happened in this thread
i made a thread about the racism in the latin community
you got your panties in a bunch and started writing essays about me suggesting splitting the vote
you said that it would cause an increase in right wing/republicans
and i said yeah it would and i dont care
what am i deflecting or misrepresenting?

But how the fukk would "splitting the vote" help them control anything? It would just weaken their power in the Democratic Party and they sure as hell wouldn't be getting any power in the Republican party to compensate.

being the swing vote gives you power

This is circular reasoning. As much as you can't stand it, the large majority of Black folk oppose White Supremacist immigration rhetoric and you still haven't shown why they're wrong.

the large majority of black people dont have any strong opinion on immigration because outside of large states like CA and FL it doesnt effect black people that much but there is a lot of anti immigration backlash in the black community in those big states

 

[theworldismine13]

I want to double down on this one for a second, because it's devoid of logic:


#1. Right now there is a Black man in the #3 position in the House and Black folk in charge of 5 House committees and some 20 subcommittees. Nearly all of them were voted into office by the Black people in their communities. If Black people "split the vote", then Republicans win control and all of that political power disappears, and what fukking Republican committees are going to be given to Black people representing Black districts?



#2. Black people "splitting the vote" would mean in several white-majority states, Republicans would take power from Democrats. Do you think the Republicans in power would then become more pro-Black than the Democrats they're replacing, even though that would alienate the 90% of their base in those states that is White AND violate all their supposed principles about "individual responsibility", "state's rights", "low taxes", not addressing civil rights issues, not caring about police and court discrimination, and so on?

You'd have to be a special kind of idiot to believe that Republicans would pull a 180 on all their commitments solely to appease a tiny portion of their voter base. They wouldn't give a single Black person in any of those states power unless they walked in lockstep with their pro-White agenda.



#3. Black people leaving the Democrats for a right-wing party that didn't try to cater to them wouldn't cause the Democrats to cater to them. At most it would make the Democrats more right-wing. Why would you cater to voters who had just left for a party that didn't cater to them at all, and risk losing moderates who were still with you? If anything it would just make the Democrats try to act more like Republicans and ignore Black issues, especially since to win any elections they'd need to attract more white voters to make up for the Black voters they had lost.



You claim that you want Black people to have power and control, but you advocate for a plan where all of the actual Black politicians voted in by Black voters would lose control in favor of White politicians voted in by White voters.

*yawn*

 

[get these nets]

Monday 10/17/22

3 parts of the segment

 

[theworldismine13]

L.A. is ruled by racist crooks: who knew?

Of course, the L.A. County Federation of Labor is furious this tape was leaked.

www.dailynews.com

 

[get these nets]

LA politicians to lose committee positions over race scandal​

Oct 17, 2022





LOS ANGELES (AP) — The head of the Los Angeles City Council stripped two members of much of their power Monday to pressure them to resign for participating in a private meeting in which they did not object to a colleague’s crude and racist remarks and at times joined in the offensive banter.
Acting Council President Mitch O’Farrell removed Gil Cedillo and Kevin de Leon from committee chairmanships and assignments and named them instead to a board that rarely meets as he turned up the heat on the veteran Democratic politicians.
“These members have lost all credibility, all standing,” O’Farrell said at a City Hall news conference.
The two men have refused widespread calls to step down despite widespread condemnation that led former council President Nury Martinez to resign last week.
The leaked recording of the three powerful politicians discussing with a labor leader how to maintain their grip on power and expand Latino influence in the city has plunged the council into chaos as angry protesters shut down meetings last week.
The recording has also derailed their personal ambitions.
By losing committee assignments, their influence in City Hall has dwindled and they have largely become token figures, unable to participate in the day-to-day work of the council and unwanted in council chambers where their appearance is likely to cause an uproar.


The council has moved to censure Cedillo and de Leon but doesn’t have the power to remove fellow elected officials from office unless they’ve been charged with a crime.

O’Farrell said the only path forward is through their resignation or a recall election in the case of de Leon, whose term ends in 2024. Cedillo lost his seat in the primary and will be replaced in December.

Spoiler: rest of article

Both had been on several high-profile committees, with Cedillo chairing the Housing Committee and De Leon chairing the Homelessness and Poverty Committee.
Under city rules, each council member has to be assigned to one committee, so each man will now serve on the Board of Referred Powers, a rarely used body that takes over when other boards have a conflict of interest.
O’Farrell said the two men should not show up at Tuesday’s meeting, which will be held virtually Tuesday because two members have tested positive for COVID-19 since the Oct. 11 meeting

 

[88m3]

 

[Professor Emeritus]

how is it bullshyt when its part of history, historically black people have voted republican, it wasnt until the 60's that it flipped, thats a fact

The longer this conversation goes the bigger a fool you look. Black folk voting Republican before the 1960s is completely irrelevant to the claim you made, as I already pointed out, but you're trying to drive the conversation in circles in order to distract from every one of your points being proven logically false.

being the swing vote gives you power

Made up bullshyt. For most of the 1970s-1990s the biggest swing vote was uneducated low-income white people in the South, and yet both parties stayed shytting on that group and never put any of them into power. Latinos have "split their vote" more than Black people and yet have less power.


I already detailed to you the exact ways that "split the vote" would dramatically decrease Black power, and your entire response was *yawn*. And in turn your comeback is a catchphrase.

Not only are you a Trump supporter, not only do you want racist right-wing Republicans to gain power across the country, not only are you intellectually incapable of defending your arguments, but you also appear to think other people reading this forum are fukking stupid.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

LA politicians to lose committee positions over race scandal​

Oct 17, 2022





LOS ANGELES (AP) — The head of the Los Angeles City Council stripped two members of much of their power Monday to pressure them to resign for participating in a private meeting in which they did not object to a colleague’s crude and racist remarks and at times joined in the offensive banter.
Acting Council President Mitch O’Farrell removed Gil Cedillo and Kevin de Leon from committee chairmanships and assignments and named them instead to a board that rarely meets as he turned up the heat on the veteran Democratic politicians.
“These members have lost all credibility, all standing,” O’Farrell said at a City Hall news conference.

I really thought those two would survive but the pressure game on them is going hard as fukk right now.

 

[GnauzBookOfRhymes]

Biggest story to me about this is the fact that they were so casually racist with the labor union official right there.