Bible Verse: Deuteronomy 18:18

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

what role was it that Jews thought Moses or Abraham filled instead of Jesus?

Messiah​

 

[DoubleClutch]

Messiah​

how would that even be possible after they had been dead and gone?

 

[SwizzLake]

what role was it that Jews thought Moses or Abraham filled instead of Jesus?

That guy is just babbling, is hard to have discussions with people like him. The Jews are actually waiting for their Messiah who they believe has not arrived yet.

 

[MMS]

Breh, if he don’t get after reading all this. I don’t know what more it’ll take

maybe it’ll hit him later

you can keep arguing for the sake of arguing though. It’s entertaining

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/the-little-known-biblical-curse-of-egypt-by-isaiah.776717/

The Prophet Isaiah

Isaiah 19:19-24

19 In that day there will be an altar to the Lord in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar to the Lord at its border.

20 And it will be for a sign and for a witness to the Lord of hosts in the land of Egypt; for they will cry to the Lord because of the oppressors, and He will send them a Savior and a Mighty One, and He will deliver them.

21 Then the Lord will be known to Egypt, and the Egyptians will know the Lord in that day, and will make sacrifice and offering; yes, they will make a vow to the Lord and perform it.

22 And the Lord will strike Egypt, He will strike and heal it; they will return to the Lord, and He will be entreated by them and heal them.

23 In that day there will be a highway from Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian will come into Egypt and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians will serve with the Assyrians.

24 In that day Israel will be one of three with Egypt and Assyria—a blessing in the midst of the land, 25 whom the Lord of hosts shall bless, saying, “Blessed is Egypt My people, and Assyria the work of My hands, and Israel My inheritance.”

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

how would that even be possible after they had been dead and gone?

Because 2nd Temple Jews had been speculating about the '2nd YHWH' for a few hundred years. Their ideas ranged from exalted humans to angels.​

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

That guy is just babbling, is hard to have discussions with people like him. The Jews are actually waiting for their Messiah who they believe has not arrived yet.

Isaiah 45:1

​

 

[(ALi)]

Some more identifiers above.

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Let's destroy another argument. Trinitarian Doctrine was conceptualized, but not fully realized, by Jews 300 years before Constantine and the Catholic Church existed......
​

When, therefore, the soul is shone upon by God as if at noonday, and when it is wholly and entirely filled with that light which is appreciable only by the intellect, and by being wholly surrounded with its brilliancy is free from all shackle or darkness, it then perceives a threefold image of one subject, one image of the living God, and others of the other two, as if they were shadows irradiated by it …. but he claims that the term shadow is just a more vivid representation of the matter intended to be intimated. Since this is not the actual truth, but in order that one may when speaking keep as close to the truth as possible, the one in the middle is the Father of the universe, who in the sacred scripture is called by his proper name, I am that I am; and the beings on each side are those most ancient powers which are always close to the living God, one of which is called his Creative Power, and the other his Royal Power. And the Creative Power is God, for it is by this that he made and arranged the universe; and the Royal Power is the Lord, for it is fitting that the Creator should lord it over and govern the creature. Therefore, the middle person of the three, being attended by each of his powers as by body-guard, presents to the mind, which is endowed with the faculty of sight, a vision at one time of one being, and at another time of three; of one when the soul being completely purified, and having surmounted not only the multitude of numbers, but also the number two, which is the neighbour of the unit, hastens onward to that idea which is devoid of mixture, free from all combination, and by itself in need of nothing else whatever; and of three, when, not being as yet made perfect as to the important virtues, it is still seeking for initiation in those of less consequence, and is not able to attain to a comprehension of the living God by its own unassisted faculties without the aid of something else, but can only do so by judging of his deeds, whether as creator or as governor. This then, as they say, is the second best thing; and it no less partakes in the opinion which is dear to and devoted to God. But the first-mentioned disposition has no such share, but is itself the very God-loving and God-beloved opinion itself, or rather it is truth which is older than opinion, and more valuable than any seeming

~(De Abrahamo, 119-123).

He died about 20 years after Jesus was executed.

​

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Some more identifiers above.

The 'servant' described in Isaiah 42 is YHWH, not just a prophet, so dude committed shirk by 'deifying' Muhammad.

Read ALL of Isaiah, especially chapters 52 and 53, and you'll see it for yourself. You'll also see that Sela is nowhere near Madina or Mecca. It was the capital of the Edomites which placed it about 1,000 miles north of Kedar bordering Moab, and was conquered by King Amaziah of Judah in 2 Kings (1-7), so using that as a reference for Muhammad is quite a reach and invalid due to eisegesis.​

 

[Anhur]

No cap and I didn't say Jews believed the Trinity Doctrine. What I did say, and is born-out of the text, is that Jews believed YHWH was a multi-personal elohim, which made it unique and the only one worth worshipping....



​

You shot yourself in the foot. If you ask 99% of Rabbis if God is one or two in one they will say one. They reject the duality in that video and the trinity of Christians.
But let's just say that it was true for a moment. According to oyu and this scholar, God was either singular or a duality but turned into a trinity because if He said that He was a duality/singular in the Old Testament then that means he wasn't a Trinity at least at that time the verse(s) was revealed.
That means God contradicted himself. God is not supposed to change

Malachi 3:6
"I the LORD do not change. So you, the descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed.

James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.

Lastly, your arguments are ENTIRELY eisegetical and invalid. Quoting the text only makes your argument stronger against Islam.

​

Am I interpreting these verses eisegetically as well?

John 20:17
Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

Mark 7:7 and Matthew 15:9
They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.'

Mark 10:18
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.
Seems like Jesus was a monotheist too, huh


John 17:3
Now, this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

In this verse, he sounds just like Prophet Muhammed and all the other Prophets who came before him (PBUT).

Matthew 26:39
Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”

That is exactly how our prophet taught us to pray. There is no way that God would prostrate. You only prostrate and pray to those greater than you.

And clearly God was greater than Jesus.

John 14:28
“the Father is greater than I”


Matthew 24:36
Speaking of His second coming, Jesus said, “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father”
(Quoting for emphasis)

Either my reading comprehension is terrible or Jesus doesn't act like or believe he's God.

 

[SwizzLake]

@Dafunkdoc_Unlimited listen to this Rabbi speak from 2:55 mark, is clear that you just don't get it.

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

@Dafunkdoc_Unlimited listen to this Rabbi speak from 2:55 mark, is clear that you just don't get it.

On the contrary, you don't get what Jews or Christians believe. As I told AND showed you, the 'godhead' was an ORTHODOX JEWISH doctrine until the 2nd Century CE. This doctrine, binitarianism, was declared heretical because Jews posited Jesus as the '2nd YHWH'. It doesn't violate the schema at all as both were ONE 'being'. This idea is firmly rooted in the Torah, and expounded in the Gospels.

You should listen to an actual scholar on the subject......



The only one 'shooting themselves in the foot', is you since your arguments are pure eisegesis based in ignorance of the context of the text you're quoting and Muhammad is found NOWHERE in it.

​

 

[SwizzLake]

On the contrary, you don't get what Jews or Christians believe. As I told AND showed you, the 'godhead' was an ORTHODOX JEWISH doctrine until the 2nd Century CE. This doctrine, binitarianism, was declared heretical because Jews posited Jesus as the '2nd YHWH'. It doesn't violate the schema at all as both were ONE 'being'. This idea is firmly rooted in the Torah, and expounded in the Gospels.

​

So according to you Jews accept Jesus as their Messiah?

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

So according to you Jews accept Jesus as their Messiah?

According to objective history, the Jews following Jesus in the 1st Century did.

Some before his execution, most afterwards.

Presently, maybe 500,000-1,000,000 Jews, worldwide, still hold that belief.​

 

[SwizzLake]

According to objective history, the Jews following Jesus in the 1st Century did.

Some before his execution, most afterwards.

Presently, maybe 500,000-1,000,000 Jews, worldwide, still hold that belief.​

You're a troll man. I won't even respond seriously to this.