Bible Verse: Deuteronomy 18:18

[Anhur]

Muslims like to take the scripture/words stating God having a “son” or Jesus being the “begotten” son literally

I guess Jesus being the son of God was metaphorical all this time

Islam brings nothing new to the story of the Bible. It’s like a movie sequel or spin off side story that isn’t needed and never should’ve been made as it but it fits it’s purpose I guess in the the bigger picture of things

The Quran is more like the uncorrupted Final Testament that is meant to correct the errors in the Bible and Old Testaments and guied all of humanity, not just the Jews.
There are no spiritually inspired writers for the Quran. Everything in there was spoken by Prophet Muhammed PBUH as revealed to him. But there isn't a single direct quote from Jesus in the Bible.
Everything is at best second or third hand and at worst just random things put in there by those writers mentioned earlier.
So the Bible is closer to fanfiction than reality

islam is like a remix of Judasim with a focus on Jesus

More like a correction and continuation of Judaism and Christianity.

Everyone except Jews regard Jesus to at least be a “good man” historically and most honor his words/teachings even if they don’t believe him to be the son of god/god in flesh/the messiah/king etc...
Muslims believe none of these things about Jesus but they have to respect him as a prophet by default because it would be harder (basically impossible) to say he was just a false prophet and remain any credibility or followers.

Idk where you got this idea from but Islam was going to come regardless if Jesus was successful with the Jews or not.
In Islam and Christianity, it says that he was sent to Jews specifically while Prophet Muhammed PBUH was sent to all.

outside of Muslims, Muhammad isn’t really respected as a prophet or even seen as a good role model based on his life.

Muhammad obviously became the more “infamous” and controversial historical figure especially if we are counting both the positive and negative influence/impact he has had on the world
in that case then maybe you have a point

You're not making the case you think you're making. Jesus was regarded as a magician and other bad stuff while he was alive and the same for Moses and other Prophets.
That's a rejection of their righteous message. The fact that people respect the Biblical Jesus should worry you. Why isn't he as hated when he was alive?
Jesus became like MLK. His message watered down (biblical corruption) and his image literally whitewashed.
Prophet Muhammad's revelation, the Quran, and his teachings are still intact with no corruption and he has no image to whitewash.

BTW, he's usually well respected by academics, not by ignorant people.
https://www.unf.edu/~n00006757/astronomylectures/The 100.pdf

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

I won't even respond seriously to this.

You can't.​

 

[Absolut da poet ®]

I always believed it referred to Christ

A better question to me is .. when exactly should Christ return ?

And what is the meaning of Revelations

Why would he be returning thousands of years after all his followers and their descendants were already dead neither their lands
Nor their language still exist

We have scholars translating their best guess as to what those scriptures meant and manipulators changing the narratives so what do we really believe

What would be the point of a prophecy that no one living at the time would live to see play out

And the living people wouldn't understand

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

We have scholars translating their best guess as to what those scriptures meant and manipulators changing the narratives so what do we really believe

You can read them, yourself, talk to scholars, take classes, or refer to commentaries. The more material and resources you have access to, the better to form your own opinion.
​

What would be the point of a prophecy that no one living at the time would live to see play out

Hope.​

 

[DoubleClutch]

I guess Jesus being the son of God was metaphorical all this time


The Quran is more like the uncorrupted Final Testament that is meant to correct the errors in the Bible and Old Testaments and guied all of humanity, not just the Jews.
There are no spiritually inspired writers for the Quran. Everything in there was spoken by Prophet Muhammed PBUH as revealed to him. But there isn't a single direct quote from Jesus in the Bible.
Everything is at best second or third hand and at worst just random things put in there by those writers mentioned earlier.
So the Bible is closer to fanfiction than reality


More like a correction and continuation of Judaism and Christianity.


Idk where you got this idea from but Islam was going to come regardless if Jesus was successful with the Jews or not.
In Islam and Christianity, it says that he was sent to Jews specifically while Prophet Muhammed PBUH was sent to all.


You're not making the case you think you're making. Jesus was regarded as a magician and other bad stuff while he was alive and the same for Moses and other Prophets.
That's a rejection of their righteous message. The fact that people respect the Biblical Jesus should worry you. Why isn't he as hated when he was alive?
Jesus became like MLK. His message watered down (biblical corruption) and his image literally whitewashed.
Prophet Muhammad's revelation, the Quran, and his teachings are still intact with no corruption and he has no image to whitewash.

BTW, he's usually well respected by academics, not by ignorant people.
https://www.unf.edu/~n00006757/astronomylectures/The 100.pdf

since you claim to understand god in a literal way please explain it to me

Jesus spoke in parables for a reason and he said “those who have ears hear”

there’s always an element of faith/higher understanding revealed by God

the Bible says lean not on your understanding

Muslims like to take everything literally cause it’s their line of defense against Faith

Like I said Revelations from an Angel/Demon/alien entity etc.... to what people would call a crazy Man by today’s standards, who also couldn’t read or write and then recited it other people to write down what will become the Koran can’t be any more credible than the numerous cults that have started in a similar manner..... JW, MORMON, SCIENTOLGOY ETC...

I’m not trusting that.

Logically it makes sense to believe the scriptures and historical facts/knowledge and traditions passed down and already existed 600 years prior to Muhammad and Islam

the Bible and Jesus of early Christianity was not “corrupted” then and how could it be if it’s the foundation for the entire religion of Islam

Muhammad and Islam “corrupted” the Bible and Jesus teachings by teaching lies to its followers via the Koran

If an uncorrupted bible/scriptures ever existed then this defeats the purpose of Islam or Muhammad ever needing to exist.

God makes no mistakes. And doesn’t Change or change his mind based on what man does or how history played out. He wouldn’t be God if he did.

the Bible needs no correction or editing/improving

You support my main point:

Islam serves no purpose other than to discredit Judasim/Jesus that came before it

Islam brings nothing new.

It’s not a continuation but a separate story created for Arab people....and forced upon those who didn’t accept it

It doesn’t contribute to Judasim or Jesus teachings. It only tries to take away from, undermine and revise everything God has already done/promised to his people and the world through Jesus.

Through Jesus the gospel spread to the world as well as Gods forgiveness and extension of his covenant with Israel.

this was all done hundreds of years before Islam, Muhammad or the term “Arab” people even existed.

No need for any new “prophets” or cults like Muhammad or Islam to come in the picture not then or now

Think about it:

Islam contradicts the direct nature of God.

God knows everything. The end from the beginning. Why would he send Jesus in the first place just to “fail” and indirectly birth a “new religion” (Christianity) whose corrupted book/teachings (Gospels) would contradict what Muhammad would later teach in the Koran and ultimately be direct opposition to Islam today and throughout history.

why would God make it harder for himself to get his message out?

Assuming this same God also sent an Angel to give the Koran to Muhammad of course

this is what Muslims must believe to reconcile Jesus.

But you can’t have it both ways. Koran & Bible/Jesus don’t mix. You can’t force it to fit into your narrative.

Either you believe in the God of the Israelites who sent Jesus ( the King/Messiah/Son of God who never sinned) or the Angel who sent spoke the Koran to a regular man who claims to be a prophet.

Jesus of the Bible or Muhammad of the Koran. You can only believe in one. Not both. It’s that simple.

To put it simply, I trust the one that came first

 

[Anhur]

since you claim to understand god in a literal way please explain it to me

I will do you one better. I will let Allah explain Himself.
Surah Ikhlas 112:1-4
Say (O Muhammad (Peace be upon him)): "He is Allah, (the) One.
Allah is the Eternal, Absolute;
"He begets not, nor was He begotten;
No one is comparable to Him.’

Jesus spoke in parables for a reason and he said “those who have ears hear”
there’s always an element of faith/higher understanding revealed by God
the Bible says lean not on your understanding
Muslims like to take everything literally cause it’s their line of defense against Faith

We take our religion literally as well. Even though the Quran is a book of poetry, it has apparently contains fewer metaphors than the Bible.
In the Quran, Allah is explicit about His nature. We are told about what we are worshipping.
There is no beating around the bush about Allah's nature while Christians have to jump through hoops to describe the trinity
and how Jesus was a God-man.

Like I said Revelations from an Angel/Demon/alien entity etc.... to what people would call a crazy Man by today’s standards, who also couldn’t read or write and then recited it other people to write down what will become the Koran can’t be any more credible than the numerous cults that have started in a similar manner..... JW, MORMON, SCIENTOLGOY ETC...
I’m not trusting that.

Prophet Muhammad PBUH being illiterate and producing the best poetry in the Arabic language BY FAR was one of his miracles.
Not one Arab has made a comparable book or even chapter to the Quran and Arabic is the language of poets...
The Quran's poetry was so out of this world that Arab's would cover their ears because they believed he was a magician.
All primary sources indicate that he PBUH was illiterate.
Christianity is far closer to a cult than Islam. At least the Prophet's message is in line with Moses's message of one God.
He didn't say he was God like Jesus did (according to you guys) and that's how most Cult leaders act.
Cult leaders don't let others get mentioned more in their manifestos like how Jesus and Moses are mentioned far more than Muhammad himself PBUH in the Quran.

the Bible and Jesus of early Christianity was not “corrupted” then and how could it be if it’s the foundation for the entire religion of Islam
Muhammad and Islam “corrupted” the Bible and Jesus teachings by teaching lies to its followers via the Koran
If an uncorrupted bible/scriptures ever existed then this defeats the purpose of Islam or Muhammad ever needing to exist.

They were definitely corrupted. The Bible had inspired writers and no primary sources
How the hell is that not corruption?
Even when the scriptures were uncorrupted, that still wouldn't stop Prophet Muhammad PBUH from spreading his message
because both Moses and Jesus were sent to the Israelites, not humankind. Prophet Muhammad PBUH was the Prophet sent to everyone.

God makes no mistakes. And doesn’t Change or change his mind based on what man does or how history played out. He wouldn’t be God if he did.
the Bible needs no correction or editing/improving
You support my main point:
God knows everything. The end from the beginning. Why would he send Jesus in the first place just to “fail” and indirectly birth a “new religion”

You're using the omniscience fallacy that the other poster used.
I will just reverse the question. Why did God not send Jesus from the beginning instead of letting some of his prophets get killed by the Jews as Elijah said?
Why was Jesus the son of God not mentioned by name in the Old Testament? Moses, Aaron, Noah, etc all died believing God had no sons and that he was one (not a trinity)
I already addressed the omniscience misconception so I will not respond to it again.
The Bible originally didn't need editing but those inspired writers took it upon themselves and corrupted it.

Islam serves no purpose other than to discredit Judasim/Jesus that came before it
Islam brings nothing new.
It’s not a continuation but a separate story created for Arab people....and forced upon those who didn’t accept it

Islam verifies those two but teaches that they've been corrupted. Islam does bring something new but you didn't bother to research that.
I will let you go on that journey.

this is what Muslims must believe to reconcile Jesus.

But you can’t have it both ways. Koran & Bible/Jesus don’t mix. You can’t force it to fit into your narrative.

Either you believe in the God of the Israelites who sent Jesus ( the King/Messiah/Son of God who never sinned) or the Angel who sent spoke the Koran to a regular man who claims to be a prophet.

Jesus of the Bible or Muhammad of the Koran. You can only believe in one. Not both. It’s that simple.

We Muslims clearly see Prophet Esa PBUH for what he was, a Great Prophet. I've clearly posted multiple bible passages but I will post a couple again for you.

John 20:17
Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

Mark 7:7 and Matthew 15:9
They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.'

Mark 10:18
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.
Seems like Jesus was a monotheist too, huh


John 17:3
Now, this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

In this verse, he sounds just like Prophet Muhammed and all the other Prophets who came before him (PBUT).

Matthew 26:39
Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”

That is exactly how our prophet taught us to pray. There is no way that God would prostrate. You only prostrate and pray to those greater than you.

And clearly God was greater than Jesus.

John 14:28
“the Father is greater than I”


Matthew 24:36
Speaking of His second coming, Jesus said, “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father”
(Quoting for emphasis)

Either my reading comprehension is terrible or Jesus doesn't act like or believe he's God.

 

[DoubleClutch]

I will do you one better. I will let Allah explain Himself.
Surah Ikhlas 112:1-4
Say (O Muhammad (Peace be upon him)): "He is Allah, (the) One.
Allah is the Eternal, Absolute;
"He begets not, nor was He begotten;
No one is comparable to Him.’


We take our religion literally as well. Even though the Quran is a book of poetry, it has apparently contains fewer metaphors than the Bible.
In the Quran, Allah is explicit about His nature. We are told about what we are worshipping.
There is no beating around the bush about Allah's nature while Christians have to jump through hoops to describe the trinity
and how Jesus was a God-man.


Prophet Muhammad PBUH being illiterate and producing the best poetry in the Arabic language BY FAR was one of his miracles.
Not one Arab has made a comparable book or even chapter to the Quran and Arabic is the language of poets...
The Quran's poetry was so out of this world that Arab's would cover their ears because they believed he was a magician.
All primary sources indicate that he PBUH was illiterate.
Christianity is far closer to a cult than Islam. At least the Prophet's message is in line with Moses's message of one God.
He didn't say he was God like Jesus did (according to you guys) and that's how most Cult leaders act.
Cult leaders don't let others get mentioned more in their manifestos like how Jesus and Moses are mentioned far more than Muhammad himself PBUH in the Quran.


They were definitely corrupted. The Bible had inspired writers and no primary sources
How the hell is that not corruption?
Even when the scriptures were uncorrupted, that still wouldn't stop Prophet Muhammad PBUH from spreading his message
because both Moses and Jesus were sent to the Israelites, not humankind. Prophet Muhammad PBUH was the Prophet sent to everyone.


You're using the omniscience fallacy that the other poster used.
I will just reverse the question. Why did God not send Jesus from the beginning instead of letting some of his prophets get killed by the Jews as Elijah said?
Why was Jesus the son of God not mentioned by name in the Old Testament? Moses, Aaron, Noah, etc all died believing God had no sons and that he was one (not a trinity)
I already addressed the omniscience misconception so I will not respond to it again.
The Bible originally didn't need editing but those inspired writers took it upon themselves and corrupted it.

Islam verifies those two but teaches that they've been corrupted. Islam does bring something new but you didn't bother to research that.
I will let you go on that journey.


We Muslims clearly see Prophet Esa PBUH for what he was, a Great Prophet. I've clearly posted multiple bible passages but I will post a couple again for you.

John 20:17
Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

Mark 7:7 and Matthew 15:9
They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.'

Mark 10:18
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.
Seems like Jesus was a monotheist too, huh


John 17:3
Now, this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

In this verse, he sounds just like Prophet Muhammed and all the other Prophets who came before him (PBUT).

Matthew 26:39
Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”

That is exactly how our prophet taught us to pray. There is no way that God would prostrate. You only prostrate and pray to those greater than you.

And clearly God was greater than Jesus.

John 14:28
“the Father is greater than I”


Matthew 24:36
Speaking of His second coming, Jesus said, “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father”
(Quoting for emphasis)

Either my reading comprehension is terrible or Jesus doesn't act like or believe he's God.

the “omniscience fallacy”? I’ve never heard of that term before. I’ll have to Google it

I hope you don’t think I’ve been studying tactics to debate with Muslims or something. This is just how I rationalize it and why I’m not Muslim. It’s doesn’t make sense logically with the concept of God in the Bible

I’m just speaking from a common sense perspective. You call it what you want but you still have no answer,

and we can debate forever but at the end of the day, you don’t understand the Bible or the relationship of God with his people, breh.

thus is laid out in the entire Bible story and exists today

unlearn what you know about Islam and read the entire Bible from a unbiased perspective and clear mind

but here’s the deal breaker:

the only selling point islam has is: “the Bible was corrupted”

correct me if I’m wrong

but if the Bible was “corrupted” at some point then by my logic at one point it was not corrupted and the true word of God to his people who lived by it and passed it down.

regardless of a book/religious culture/traditions

the word of God once within someone heart can’t be corrupted and they can teach and pass down to next generations. It’s a way of life not just words in a book people depend on.

people didn’t always have a book with them to depend on

if you know you know.

Gods word can never be wiped from this earth. That’s in the Bible.

that would defeat the purpose of God sending prophets, and communicating with people

In Islam YOU depend on a book so much so that you’re afraid to even let it be translated

You are a slave to the book and religion and all the customs and traditions

but do you think for yourself or even know why you believe what you believe?

Yes, man can change the Bible and scriptures have been changed and corrupted but God can’t be defeated by man

You hold an entire religion and faith accountable for what Man has done.

man isn’t perfect

It’s not a perfect world

yet, Islam whole religion is based on the concept that man ruined gods word and God had to improvise off what Man does

how can Man outsmart God?

God doesn’t change

Gods promise to his people can’t be broken

God doesn’t lie

To believe Islam is against the nature of God

It attempts to change God, rewrite his story, make and him to be a liar 600 years after the fact

why anyone would trust the Quran over the Bible/ and believe what it says about Jesus instead of the actual followers of Jesus is beyond me.

Which explains why The Quran itself says to consult the “people of the book” if there’s any uncertainty or doubt.

now why would God tell Muslims to consult the people of a corrupted book?

Without asking Jews and Christians how do you decide what to believe in the Bible and what not?

Also another question for you to answer that I always wanted to ask a Muslim:

What function does Jesus serve in the practice of Islam today different than how he’d be regarded by a non believer?

Do you pray in his name, for example? Does he forgive your sins?

If he didn’t exist how would Islam be any different?

You claim to believe in the God of Abraham just like the Jews yet even they don’t believe in Jesus

So why do Muslims hundreds of years later accept Jesus after he’d been widely rejected by the “people of the book” you claim to share so much in common with?

This is an interesting contradiction between Jews & Muslims.

Muslims gain nothing from believing in Jesus (he didn’t come for Arabs since apparently that was Muhammad’s job later) but you hold him in higher regard than the people he actually came for.

Did the Jews fumble the bag? Or did God make a mistake in sending Jesus in the first place?

why didn’t God just send Muhammad 600 years earlier?

Then there’d be no purpose for Jesus?

Jews living before the destruction of the 2nd temple “hypothetically” accepting Muhammad instead of Jesus what would be the difference?

What does Muhammad offer to the Jews that Jesus did not?


Maybe you can answer these and in turn I’ll be here to answer any questions you have about the Bible/Jesus.

But it’s pointless to debate about the Koran if you already believe it 100%

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Acts 3​

19 Repent, then, and turn back, so that your sins may be wiped away,

20 that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that He may send Jesus, the Christ, who has been appointed for you.

21 Heaven must take Him in until the time comes for the restoration of all things, which God
announced long ago through His holy prophets.

22 For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your brothers. You must listen to Him in everything He tells you.

23 Everyone who does not listen to Him will be completely cut off from among his people.’

Peter says Deuteronomy 18:18 is about Jesus and not some foreigner 600 years later.

I'll take his word for it since he knew the text of the OT better than anyone in this thread.​

 

[TELL ME YA CHEESIN FAM?]

Heaven babble

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Moses, himself, said plainly that Muhammad can't be the subject of 18:18 three verses earlier.....​

Deuteronomy 18:15​

The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him.

In case you wish to argue that translation is wrong, here is the text in Hebrew.....​

נָבִ֨יא מִקִּרְבְּךָ֤ מֵאַחֶ֙יךָ֙ כָּמֹ֔נִי יָקִ֥ים לְךָ֖ יְהוָ֣ה אֱלֹהֶ֑יךָ אֵלָ֖יו תִּשְׁמָעֽוּן׃​

I highlighted one phrase that shows Moses couldn't possibly be referring to Muhammad.

What is that phrase?

Hebrew Concordance: miq·qir·be·ḵā -- 15 Occurrences

Strong's Hebrew: 7130. קֶ֫רֶב (qereb) -- inward part, midst

He was ONLY referring to Israelites which rules-out Muhammad, an outsider, a foreigner.

So, what's next? Song of Solomon?

Muslims have been trying to prove Muhammad is in the text for over a thousand years and have utterly failed.

Fun to watch them try, though.​

 

[DoubleClutch]

Moses, himself, said plainly that Muhammad can't be the subject of 18:18 three verses earlier.....​

Deuteronomy 18:15​

The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him.

In case you wish to argue that translation is wrong, here is the text in Hebrew.....​

נָבִ֨יא מִקִּרְבְּךָ֤ מֵאַחֶ֙יךָ֙ כָּמֹ֔נִי יָקִ֥ים לְךָ֖ יְהוָ֣ה אֱלֹהֶ֑יךָ אֵלָ֖יו תִּשְׁמָעֽוּן׃​

I highlighted one phrase that shows Moses couldn't possibly be referring to Muhammad.

What is that phrase?

Hebrew Concordance: miq·qir·be·ḵā -- 15 Occurrences

Strong's Hebrew: 7130. קֶ֫רֶב (qereb) -- inward part, midst

He was ONLY referring to Israelites which rules-out Muhammad, an outsider, a foreigner.

So, what's next? Song of Solomon?

Muslims have been trying to prove Muhammad is in the text for over a thousand years and have utterly failed.

Fun to watch them try, though.​

you can’t win any debate using scriptures or prophecy

since they will just spin it to fit their narrative and interpret it differently

Or he will just say the text was corrupted/miss translated

just use logic:

Muslims believe Jesus is the word of God sent by God to the Jews

Why would God send Jesus and 600 years later send Muhammad to a different people to correct his “mistakes”

God would never break his promise to Israel no matter how bad things get. God can’t lie.

through Jesus only (not Muhammad) can everyone be considered “child of God/Israel” And this includes “Arab” people.

there were already Middle eastern Christian communities pre Islam who believed in the gospel of Jesus, and knew the God of Abraham

Muhammad contributes nothing new to the religion let alone fit the description of a Bible prophet

he definitely succeeded in becoming the greatest False Prophet of all time however

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

you can’t win any debate using scriptures or prophecy

since they will just spin it to fit their narrative and interpret it differently

This isn't a debate, though. The posts are more for others unfamiliar with what the text ACTUALLY contains and why.
​

Or he will just say the text was corrupted/miss translated

They can't say that without proving the Quran in-error and Muhammad a false prophet.​

Muslims believe Jesus is the word of God sent by God to the Jews

Why would God send Jesus and 600 years later send Muhammad to a different people to correct his “mistakes”

I have a MUCH better argument: Where in the Quran does Allah or Muhammad say, unequivocally, that the texts were corrupted?

That cuts-out all the interpretation nonsense.
​

he definitely succeeded in becoming the greatest False Prophet of all time however

Well, he did violate most Jewish Laws, enslaved a lot of women and children, had sex with a little girl, married his adopted son's ex-wife, walked around covered in his own semen, robbed caravans, couldn't tell the difference between 'G-d' and Satan, used slaves for sex, and had people murdered for criticizing him with poetry, so that's a foregone conclusion.​

 

[Spiritual Stratocaster]

How does Islam relate to Ishmael from the bible where is the connection to Abraham?

 

[LiIZaneFan1978]

How does Islam relate to Ishmael from the bible where is the connection to Abraham?

Ishmael was abrahams son

 

[Spiritual Stratocaster]

Ishmael was abrahams son

I thought I was told Ishmael is the origin of Islam.