Bible Verse: Deuteronomy 18:18

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So, basically Islam is fan-fiction?

I'll just say this. Be wary of any person that comes along claiming they have sole revelation, sole interpretation, and sole authority.

The Bible was authored by many people, of many stations, across many generations. And yet the same theme reverberates throughout all their works. The man whom scriptures recorded proclaiming to be God himself did not even author his own scripture. His witnesses did.

It's a reason why mainline Christians consider the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses to be cults. If they be cults, what more is Islam?
 

Anhur

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I don't care about Rabbis whose views are as broad as any Christian pastor. What do Jewish scholars say?
I don't claim to be a scholar in any of the religions we are discussing and I haven't watched any Jewish scholars in all honesty, but the conclusions I came to after watching some rabbis are just common sense.
Muslims are strict monotheists while Christians worship a human being as a man. (remember that Jews don't accept Jesus as Allah)
Christians also depict Jesus/God in most churches which basically violates the 2nd and 3rd commandments.


Which was the first prophecy that God made of the Savior who would come to redeem mankind.
And yet, in his omniscience, he still elevated the Jews above all nations.
God is not fickle and does not take back gifts and covenants that he bestows.
Your omniscience argument doesn't make sense.
If God is omniscient, why didn't he stop the slave trade, holocaust, mass murders, etc.?
If God is omniscient, why did he bother creating civilizations like Sodom and Gomorrah if he was just going to destroy them eventually?
If God is omniscient, why didn't he tell Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Adam, etc. to worship Jesus? They all worshipped him alone with no partners (like the 2nd Commandment)
If God is omniscient, why didn't He just send Jesus from the beginning instead of allowing some of his Prophets to get killed?

If God is omniscient, why did he even make the tree of knowledge if he knew Adam was going to eat from it regardless?

This line of reasoning makes no sense. Allah is obviously omniscient but that doesn't mean Allah will interfere due to giving us freedom of choice.
We choose what we will do and our actions will be judged on the Day of Judgement.
The Jews were given multiple opportunities to ask for forgiveness and keep the covenant but they failed to do so.
Their last chance was accepting the way of the Messiah, Prophet Esa Son of Maryam (PBUT), but they rejected him.
Therefore, the Last Prophet (PBUH) was sent to not only the Jews but all of the "Gentiles".

God dint throw away his chosen people for a new race of people. When we go off, he sends us into slavery to other nations. And we follow GOD, we run everything. Thats the part you dont understand
Muslims aren't a race. Jews can also be Muslims, therefore, Allah didn't throw anyone away.
It is up to you guys to decide if you're going to keep ignoring Allah's message which is Islam.
Muslims are Allah's chosen people now.

The Bible was authored by many people, of many stations, across many generations. And yet the same theme reverberates throughout all their works. The man whom scriptures recorded proclaiming to be God himself did not even author his own scripture. His witnesses did.
This doesn't make any sense. How are people that are writing things across generations supposed to be proof of anything? In fact, Allah has warned of these people that get "divine inspirations".

(2:79)So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.
 

SwizzLake

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Please post these Psalms that you are referencing.

.

Jesus is stating that his not a Ghost in the Bible but you remain to blind yourself.

Psalm 118:17-18:
I shall not die, but live,

And declare the works of the Lord.
The Lord has chastened me severely,
But He has not given me over to death.


Psalm 118:22-23:


The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone.

This was the Lord’s doing;
It is marvelous in our eyes.

Luke 24:36-43:
36 While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. 41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?”
42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish,

43 and he took it and ate it in their presence.


 

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I don't claim to be a scholar in any of the religions we are discussing and I haven't watched any Jewish scholars in all honesty, but the conclusions I came to after watching some rabbis are just common sense.
Muslims are strict monotheists while Christians worship a human being as a man. (remember that Jews don't accept Jesus as Allah)

Jewish people would never accept God revealing himself to another nation. Jesus himself sprang forth from among them. Islam had no connection whatsoever to Judaism and Christianity.

If the argument by Rabbis is that Islam appears to be monotheistic because they don't understand Christianity. I'll accept that.

But what Rabbis and what most Muslims seem to not understand is that Islam, is in fact, not monotheistic, having incorporated many of the pagan beliefs that it sprang forth from, and I'll provide evidence of that if you like?


Christians also depict Jesus/God in most churches which basically violates the 2nd and 3rd commandments.

???

If that be the case, explain Exodus 37:7 as it details the making of the Ark of the Covenant.

7 He made two cherubim of beaten gold; he made them of one piece at the two ends of the mercy seat: 8 one cherub at one end on this side, and the other cherub at the other end on that side. He made the cherubim at the two ends of one piece with the mercy seat. 9 The cherubim spread out their wings above, and covered the mercy seat with their wings. They faced one another; the faces of the cherubim were toward the mercy seat.

God had just given them the ten commandments and in the same breath they are fashioning the ark with gold cherubim.

You should go back and revisit the ten commandments because there is context there that you obviously seem to be missing.

Your omniscience argument doesn't make sense.
If God is omniscient, why didn't he stop the slave trade, holocaust, mass murders, etc.?
If God is omniscient, why did he bother creating civilizations like Sodom and Gomorrah if he was just going to destroy them eventually?
If God is omniscient, why didn't he tell Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Adam, etc. to worship Jesus? They all worshipped him alone with no partners (like the 2nd Commandment)
If God is omniscient, why didn't He just send Jesus from the beginning instead of allowing some of his Prophets to get killed?

If God is omniscient, why did he even make the tree of knowledge if he knew Adam was going to eat from it regardless?

This line of reasoning makes no sense.

Breh, you just answered your own question here.

Allah is obviously omniscient but that doesn't mean Allah will interfere due to giving us freedom of choice.

It's like Muslims get into this very linear way of thinking and can't make connections. :mindblown:


You couldn't connect humans freedom of choice to the list of human events that you had just previously listed? And that God being all knowing having nothing to do with that?

If God is omniscient, why didn't he tell Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Adam, etc. to worship Jesus? They all worshipped him alone with no partners (like the 2nd Commandment)

What does omniscience have to do with this? There is an idea called progressive revelation. That throughout the history of the Jews, God reveals more things about the nature of himself to them.

That has nothing to do with his own omniscience.

If God is omniscient, why didn't He just send Jesus from the beginning instead of allowing some of his Prophets to get killed?

Again, nothing to do with omniscience. You answer your own question here:

Allah is obviously omniscient but that doesn't mean Allah will interfere due to giving us freedom of choice.

And he allowed Jesus to be killed so why are other prophets being killed that much more significant?

The Jews were given multiple opportunities to ask for forgiveness and keep the covenant but they failed to do so.
Their last chance was accepting the way of the Messiah, Prophet Esa Son of Maryam (PBUT), but they rejected him.
Therefore, the Last Prophet (PBUH) was sent to not only the Jews but all of the "Gentiles".

Unfortunately, the history of scripture shows something different. When the Jews were rebellious, God would send a prophet to return the Jews to him, because HE remembered the covenant that he made with their ancestors.

There is no illustration whatsoever, of when the Jews rebelled, or killed prophets, God leaving them and giving revelation and speaking to their neighbors.

Islam claiming that God abandoned the Jews for some other unrelated pagan group, who he did not prime to be a holy nation, is just so far out in left field.

Remember, the Jews had to go through a process to make themselves holy and distinct from the other nations so that God would come among them. To think he would just leave them for a pagan group without putting them through the same process of making themselves holy invalidates Islam in and of itself.

This doesn't make any sense. How are people that are writing things across generations supposed to be proof of anything? In fact, Allah has warned of these people that get "divine inspirations".

It proves further validity.

The difference between only one man saying he encountered aliens that had green eyes and red hair.

And multiple people across different time periods, different ages, different stations in life saying they encountered aliens with green eyes and red hair.

You're more willing to believe the multiple accounts over just the one.

This is common sense.

It also means that one author, one revelation, one interpretation puts too much power in one man's hands which increases the level manipulation and abuse of power. Which is why this is one of the characteristics of cults.

Look at Jim Jones, Charles Manson, Charles Applewhite, David Korsh. They all share similarities with Muhammad.

(2:79)So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.

This sounds like what was happening to the Koran.
 

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Jesus is stating that his not a Ghost in the Bible but you remain to blind yourself.

Psalm 118:17-18:
I shall not die, but live,

And declare the works of the Lord.
The Lord has chastened me severely,
But He has not given me over to death.


Psalm 118:22-23:


The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone.

This was the Lord’s doing;
It is marvelous in our eyes.

Luke 24:36-43:
36 While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. 41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?”
42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish,

43 and he took it and ate it in their presence.


Breh...I don't even know where to start..... :mindblown:

How y'all be murdering these scriptures is beyond me.
 

SwizzLake

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Breh...I don't even know where to start..... :mindblown:

How y'all be murdering these scriptures is beyond me.


Jesus is telling you that he did not die and eats a broiled fish to prove that he did not die, what is your response? I provided you with the Bible quotes.
 
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Everythingg

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Christians really should analyze this verse very carefully.

Whom does the Torah speak when God says He will raise up 'a prophet like Moses and I will place My words in his mouth' in Deuteronomy 18:18?



It’s talking about Joshua obviously when you ignore the cherry-picking Muslims/Christians do trying to force for their prophets in there
:yeshrug:
 

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Jesus is telling that he did not die and eats a broiled fish to prove that he did not die, what is your response? I provided you with the Bible quotes.

What part of Jesus died and his body was physically resurrected do you have trouble understanding?

He's telling his disciples that he's not a ghost and that it's his physical body which is why he shows Thomas the holes in his hands.

He's telling them he's not a ghost, not because he didn't die, but because he did, they saw that he did, and they buried him.

If they didn't see him die, if they didn't bury him, why would they believe they were seeing a ghost?

The Psalms scripture that you selected are not the words of Jesus neither does it claim that the Messiah would not die.

David wrote the Psalms. The voice is that of the nation of Israel.
 

MMS

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Jesus is telling you that he did not die and eats a broiled fish to prove that he did not die, what is your response? I provided you with the Bible quotes.
:sas2: 36 Days of Judaic Myth: Day 35, The Feast at the End of Days

the beasts can be considered allegorial...:cook:

The Book of the Prophet Job 41

1 Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?

2 Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn?

3 Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee?

4 Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever?

5 Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? or wilt thou bind him for thy maidens?

6 Shall the companions make a banquet of him? shall they part him among the merchants?

7 Canst thou fill his skin with barbed irons? or his head with fish spears?

8 Lay thine hand upon him, remember the battle, do no more.

9 Behold, the hope of him is in vain: shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him?

10 None is so fierce that dare stir him up: who then is able to stand before me?

11 Who hath prevented me, that I should repay him? whatsoever is under the whole heaven is mine.

12 I will not conceal his parts, nor his power, nor his comely proportion.

13 Who can discover the face of his garment? or who can come to him with his double bridle?

14 Who can open the doors of his face? his teeth are terrible round about.

15 His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.

16 One is so near to another, that no air can come between them.

17 They are joined one to another, they stick together, that they cannot be sundered.

18 By his neesings a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.

19 Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.

20 Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.

21 His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.

22 In his neck remaineth strength, and sorrow is turned into joy before him.

23 The flakes of his flesh are joined together: they are firm in themselves; they cannot be moved.

24 His heart is as firm as a stone; yea, as hard as a piece of the nether millstone.

25 When he raiseth up himself, the mighty are afraid: by reason of breakings they purify themselves.

26 The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold: the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon.

27 He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood.

28 The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble.

29 Darts are counted as stubble: he laugheth at the shaking of a spear.

30 Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire.

31 He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.

32 He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.

33 Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear.

34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.

:jbhmm: that old serpent

Cetus - Wikipedia

Book of Jonah - Wikipedia
 
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MMS

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Breh...I don't even know where to start..... :mindblown:

How y'all be murdering these scriptures is beyond me.

John 14:1-4
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

consider this passage and the underlined... then read John 1:1 again.
 

SwizzLake

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What part of Jesus died and his body was physically resurrected do you have trouble understanding?

He's telling his disciples that he's not a ghost and that it's his physical body which is why he shows Thomas the holes in his hands.

He's telling them he's not a ghost, not because he didn't die, but because he did, they saw that he did, and they buried him.

If they didn't see him die, if they didn't bury him, why would they believe they were seeing a ghost?

The Psalms scripture that you selected are not the words of Jesus neither does it claim that the Messiah would not die.

David wrote the Psalms. The voice is that of the nation of Israel.
If the scripture that I quoted is not the words of Jesus, then who are they? Are you rejecting the Psalms because it doesn't suite you? Is this how your faith works?
 

Anhur

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Jewish people would never accept God revealing himself to another nation. Jesus himself sprang forth from among them. Islam had no connection whatsoever to Judaism and Christianity.

If the argument by Rabbis is that Islam appears to be monotheistic because they don't understand Christianity. I'll accept that.

But what Rabbis and what most Muslims seem to not understand is that Islam, is in fact, not monotheistic, having incorporated many of the pagan beliefs that it sprang forth from, and I'll provide evidence of that if you like?
Lots of Jews converted to Islam (for example: Palestinians were Jews that converted) although plenty didn't due to Prophet Muhammed PBUH not being a Jew.

A Christian accusing Islam of having pagan beliefs is shooting their own foot. Just two examples would be Saturnalia (Christmas) and the Christian God being the identical twin of Zeus.


If that be the case, explain Exodus 37:7 as it details the making of the Ark of the Covenant.
God had just given them the ten commandments and in the same breath they are fashioning the ark with gold cherubim.
What did you prove with this statement? The 3rd Commandment clearly states that God shouldn't be drawn. :dwillhuh:
Are Cherubims now Gods?:what:
I clearly stated that Christians violated the 2nd and 3rd Commandments according to both Jews and Muslims by Worshipping a human (in our opinion) and by drawing God.

What does omniscience have to do with this? There is an idea called progressive revelation. That throughout the history of the Jews, God reveals more things about the nature of himself to them.

That has nothing to do with his own omniscience.
So the past Prophets never heard about Jesus because God was hiding pieces of himself?:mjtf:
It wasn't because he wasn't born yet:pachaha:
The Trinity is kind of a core concept that can't just be revealed down the line.
Every single Prophet before Jesus saw God as we Muslims do (One God with no sons or trinity)
Let's not forget that you brought up the omniscience argument but we'll get to that bellow

What does omniscience have to do with this?
You asked me earlier why did God make a covenant with the sons of Israel if God knew they would never keep it and eventually raise the Muslims in their place.
My reply was basically, why would God do anything he if he already knew the answer. For example, Allah sent a Prophet to the people of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Allah obviously knew most of them wouldn't repent and change their ways but Allah sent them a Prophet regardless so they can't claim in the Day of Judgement that they had no warner/teacher to guide them.

That is the same case for the Children of Israel. Allah didn't break the covenant with the Jews. The Jews broke that covenant. But Allah was merciful and gave them plenty of chances but they failed.
This means that they will be replaced as Allah said in the Quran:
O you who have believed, whoever of you should revert from his religion – Allah will bring forth [in place of them] a people He will love and who will love Him [who are] humble toward the believers, powerful against the disbelievers; they strive in the cause of Allah and do not fear the blame of a critic. That is the favor of Allah; He bestows it upon whom He wills. And Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing.[5:54]

Here you are - those invited to spend in the cause of Allah - but among you are those who withhold [out of greed]. And whoever withholds only withholds [benefit] from himself; and Allah is the Free of need, while you are the needy. And if you turn away, He will replace you with another people; then they will not be the likes of you.[47:38]

The Bible concurs that statement
“Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof” (Matthew 21:43).


And he allowed Jesus to be killed so why are other prophets being killed that much more significant?
Unfortunately, the history of scripture shows something different. When the Jews were rebellious, God would send a prophet to return the Jews to him, because HE remembered the covenant that he made with their ancestors.
There is no illustration whatsoever, of when the Jews rebelled, or killed prophets, God leaving them and giving revelation and speaking to their neighbors.
Islam claiming that God abandoned the Jews for some other unrelated pagan group, who he did not prime to be a holy nation, is just so far out in left field.
Remember, the Jews had to go through a process to make themselves holy and distinct from the other nations so that God would come among them. To think he would just leave them for a pagan group without putting them through the same process of making themselves holy invalidates Islam in and of itself.
You're acting like us Muslims are saying that Allah is an oathbreaker. The jews broke their covenant multiple times.
I don't know why we have to keep going back and forth here. Both the Quran and the Bible clearly state that if you don't practice the faith correctly you will be replaced and this goes for Muslims too (Arabs getting replaced by Turks)
I already told you that Islam is valid even according to Judaism so we can nip that stuff in the bud. Job and Balaam were prophets and gentiles so let's not act like it never happened before.:unimpressed:


It proves further validity.
The difference between only one man saying he encountered aliens that had green eyes and red hair.
And multiple people across different time periods, different ages, different stations in life saying they encountered aliens with green eyes and red hair.
You're more willing to believe the multiple accounts over just the one.
This is common sense.
It also means that one author, one revelation, one interpretation puts too much power in one man's hands which increases the level manipulation and abuse of power. Which is why this is one of the characteristics of cults.
Look at Jim Jones, Charles Manson, Charles Applewhite, David Korsh. They all share similarities with Muhammad.
No, it proves its invalidity. The Quran clearly warns Muslims of how the Bible and Torah were altered by human beings and that humans are not allowed to alter the final testament, the Quran.
I don't know how you can say what you're saying wit a straight face. :pachaha:
The Quran was codified within a couple of decades and had no changes over 1400 years but the same can't be said about the Bible.
The Bible took centuries to compile and had influences from different people. The Gospels are even 2nd hand accounts.
It literally says on the first page, "the Gospel according to_____".
The Quran isn't according to anyone, it's first hand. The Quran is literally the words of Allah repeated by our illiterate Prophet PBUH, as a sign mind you.:ufdup:

This sounds like what was happening to the Koran.
That verse literally has nothing to do with the Quran and everything to do with the Bible who you happily admitted was influenced by "inspired" writers.
Our Prophet PBUH was illiterate so he received his verses from Gabriel and his companions wrote them down.
Just so you know the Quran is also poetry and in 1400 years, no Arab from any faith could even replicate a single chapter of the Quran's poetry. Arabic is a language of poetry.
Many even converted because of how moved they were by the Quran's poetry alone. The Arabs would cover their ears saying that Prophet PBUH was bewitching them.
In other words, had the Quran been in English, it would have made Shakespeare's works look like baby language.
 

SwizzLake

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Even some Christian sects are admitting that they were wrong about calling Jesus God. @Anhur

These hard headed dudes I pray God guides them to the right path.


 

MMS

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Even some Christian sects are admitting that they were wrong about calling Jesus God. @Anhur

These hard headed dudes I pray God guides them to the right path.



Jeremiah 7:14-24

14 Therefore will I do unto this house, which is called by my name, wherein ye trust, and unto the place which I gave to you and to your fathers, as I have done to Shiloh.

15 And I will cast you out of my sight, as I have cast out all your brethren, even the whole seed of Ephraim.

16 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee.

17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?

18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the Lord: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?


20 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.

21 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh.

22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.
:wow:
The 2nd Psalm of David

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

:wow:
 
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