Bible Verse: Deuteronomy 18:18

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Moses, Muhammad, and Jesus are all fictional characters

All three of them existed albeit the evidence is much stronger for Muhammad and Jesus than Moses......

​

 

[Westbama Heartthrob]

Moses, Muhammad, and Jesus are all fictional characters

Idk why yall still harp on this

Not the hill to die on when there are plenty other critiques to have about religion

 

[dezert_storm]

All three of them existed albeit the evidence is much stronger for Muhammad and Jesus than Moses......

​

I’d say Jesus is the one who most likely actually existed of the 3 but the evidence for him is shaky too. I haven’t seen any contemporary sources detailing him and IIRC the stories that we have now about him were written decades(?) later.

Muhammad was supposed to have died in 632 but most of what we know about him come from centuries later. No contemporary sources from his lifetime. Even the first biography of his came 100 years after his death. The Hadiths are from the 9th century and later. Even if he actually did exist, what could we realistically know about him?

I’m not aware of any historical evidence of Moses but if you have any, I’m all ears.

 

[dezert_storm]

Idk why yall still harp on this

Not the hill to die on when there are plenty other critiques to have about religion

I agree that there are definitely plenty of critiques for religion, I just find the historical critiques more interesting personally.

 

[LiIZaneFan1978]

Genesis 17:20-21
King James Version

20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.



The Most High’s covenant is with Israel. Thinking he would raise a prophet out of Ishmael’s lineage isn’t biblical.

 

[SwizzLake]

Genesis 17:20-21
King James Version

20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.



The Most High’s covenant is with Israel. Thinking he would raise a prophet out of Ishmael’s lineage isn’t biblical.

The Covenant with Ishmael

"I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations as an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you." Genesis 17:7

"And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation." ... He shall father twelve princes, and I will make him into a great nation." Genesis 17:20

"This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised." ... Genesis 17:10

Genesis 17:23 "And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham's house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him."

The Right of First Born

1. Deuteronomy 21:15 "If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons but the firstborn is the son of the wife he does not love"

2. Deuteronomy 21:16 "When he wills his property to his sons, he must not give the rights of the firstborn to the son of the wife he loves in preference to his actual firstborn, the son of the wife he does not love.

3. Deuteronomy 21:17 "He must acknowledge the son of his unloved wife as the firstborn by giving him a double share of all he has. That son is the first sign of his father’s strength. The right of the firstborn belongs to him"

 

[jeh]

Regarding the op isn't that speaking of Joshua

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

I’d say Jesus is the one who most likely actually existed of the 3 but the evidence for him is shaky too. I haven’t seen any contemporary sources detailing him and IIRC the stories that we have now about him were written decades(?) later.

The Gospels are contemporary and written by and through eyewitnesses. The originals are gone but the earliest copies of them date to about 60 years after the crucifixion.​

Muhammad was supposed to have died in 632 but most of what we know about him come from centuries later. No contemporary sources from his lifetime. Even the first biography of his came 100 years after his death. The Hadiths are from the 9th century and later. Even if he actually did exist, what could we realistically know about him?

Since Islamic critical scholarship is in its relative infancy in the West, it's becoming clearer what happened, but very slowly.​

I’m not aware of any historical evidence of Moses but if you have any, I’m all ears.

Only evidence available is through the Hebrew Bible. We can only make general assumptions based on contemporaneous surrounding cultures' documentation.​

 

[TheNig]

Quite a few religious studies going on in here these days.

 

[LiIZaneFan1978]

The Covenant with Ishmael

"I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations as an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you." Genesis 17:7

"And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation." ... He shall father twelve princes, and I will make him into a great nation." Genesis 17:20

"This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised." ... Genesis 17:10

Genesis 17:23 "And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham's house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him."

The Right of First Born

1. Deuteronomy 21:15 "If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons but the firstborn is the son of the wife he does not love"

2. Deuteronomy 21:16 "When he wills his property to his sons, he must not give the rights of the firstborn to the son of the wife he loves in preference to his actual firstborn, the son of the wife he does not love.

3. Deuteronomy 21:17 "He must acknowledge the son of his unloved wife as the firstborn by giving him a double share of all he has. That son is the first sign of his father’s strength. The right of the firstborn belongs to him"

Bro what is all that supposed to mean?


Genesis 25:23
King James Version

23 And the Lord said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

Idc about the Koran at all but I’m sure it tells you Muhammad is the prophet, so that should be all the proof you need. Be well.

 

[5thbornpowerseed]

Keep letting these european jews and arabs lie about who they are... really convincing the world that they are gods people...look at there works on this planet... who is of god and who is of the devil?

 

[SwizzLake]

No, it actually proves it isn't talking about Muhammad. Also, Deuteronomy was written about 700 years before Jesus was born so that argument fails.
​

Only if you read that ONE verse and ignore everything else in the chapter, like 16:14, while disregarding the fact that it wasn't a prophet that was coming after J.​

What is the "among their brethren" mean to you in Deut 18-18?

Ishmael is called Brethren same word used in Deut 18-18

Genesis 16:12 - King James Version
"And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren"

The same Hebrew word is used for Ishmael.

The word Brethren's also used for the decedents of Esau which were Arabs in: Deut 2:4 "You are about to pass through the territory of your brethren, the descendants of Esau, who live in Seir; and they will be afraid of you. Therefore watch yourselves carefully"

 

[Thurgood Thurston III]

+1

Islam has no legitimacy. The Jews (descendants of Isaac) were elevated by God as a nation specifically for the reason that God would reveal himself to the world through them.

Arabs who are descended from Ishmael were not chosen by God so revelation of God would not have come from them.

So, basically Islam is fan-fiction?

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

What is the "among their brethren" mean to you in Deut 18-18?

The same thing it meant in Deut. 17:15.

Not Muhammad.​

 

[TEH]

Moses, Muhammad, and Jesus are all fictional characters

And you know this because your white Masters informed you of it I’m sure ...