Bernie Sanders Does Not Want To Abolishing Police Departments

iamduval

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Raise the academic and background qualifications for becoming an officer. Make it a more desirable position with increased pay.


Continuous background checks, high disciplinary actions for numerous complaints/violations.


I don’t think it’s an idiotic idea
 

Professor Emeritus

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He said the following:

  • "And, too often around this country right now, you have police officers who take the job at very low payment, don't have much education, don't have much training—and I want to change that."

As I said,

Again cops aren't bad because they're underpaid.
It still looks like you have a reading comprehension issue.

Do you disagree with either of the following statements?

1. shytty, unqualified candidates are getting hired as cops.
2. Higher pay and demanding better qualifications would improve the candidate pool.

Or do you believe that police work is somehow different than literally every other occupation in America?



I fundamentally disagree with the idea that good people aren't being hired as cops because of their pay. It's a fundamental issue I disagree with regarding the debate about why police officers are killing black men and women at a disproportionate rate.
So you seriously believe that there's all sorts of great people who would make good cops but can't get a job because they want to hire the shytty ones instead?

No one said, "lack of pay is the reason for racial disparities in policing". There are racial disparities AND a lot of cops are shytty across the board too. Both can be true at the same time.

Have you noticed how often cops with awful abuse records get re-hired by other departments? You think that those departments want to hire someone who is going to get them sued? That would be idiocy - misuse of force and other abuse lawsuits cost police departments hundreds of millions of dollars. They wouldn't be hiring those failed re-tred officers if they could help it, for financial motives alone. But they have to hire them because they don't have actual qualified candidates.

Same goes for civil rights lawsuits. Why would police departments purposely hire someone who is going to get them sued, lose federal funding, etc.? If you crack down on civil rights violations like Sanders proposes AND you increase the pool of qualified cops, you can address the issue. How do you do that without getting more qualified cops than the worst shytheads that are out in the force now? You think those guys are just gonna get better?



And my belief is that review boards should not be limited to reactionary measures. In fact, there should be some form of public review on new hires. It's not unreasonable in my opinion for people under the public trust to receive public scrutiny. Seems to be a more effective way to keep bad actors from these positions of power in the first place
That's not an unreasonable idea in theory, but it practice it might be unworkable. The LA Sheriff Department recently had close to 1,000 vacancies simultaneously. It's a bit tough to imagine a public review board making a meaningful review of that many positions, the numbers just don't seem workable.

And your assumption is that there are all these great potential cops out there that can't get a job, so many that they could replace every one of the bad cops. That just doesn't seem likely to me. A lot of police departments have a hell of a time filling their vacancies.



instead of the misguided classist view that if you pay people more you will end up with higher moral character.
Yes, the principle "If you pay more for a job then you'll get a larger pool of desirable candidates" is now a "classist" view. :mjlol:




This is just political hoe babble. Imagine thinking that leftists are the only ones who are advocating for change in the police department,
Just show me where you criticized Biden and Clinton on their police reform plans and I'll stand down. :unimpressed:
 

StatUS

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Personally, I think the police in America needs to be abolished completely and rebuilt. But since we live in a warring empire built on racism and violence it's kind of unrealistic.

Bernie did say Black Lives Matter on stage of a debate in 2016 while Hillary was juelzing. Also called out the CIA on a debate stage in 2020. So he can't be all that bad :unimpressed:
 

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Bernie put out an 8-point plan for police reform that is 90% based on pulling back from militarization and aggressive and violent policing, demanding more accountability on force and civil rights issues, and withholding federal funding from non-compliant departments.

But a Trump supporter and two centrists are going crazy about a single sentence at the end of Point 5 because he dared say that our current applicant pool for new cops is shyt so we hire terrible unqualified candidates.
 

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Bernie has a good proposal that he laid out there.

Leftists expecting him to be antagonistic to the police don't know Bernie's history. He won his first race for Mayor of Burlington, VT with strong backing of the police union.
full

Ask Bernie Sanders About Criminal Justice, He’ll Talk About Economics
When Bernie Sanders ran for mayor of Burlington, Vermont, in 1981, he was even more of an underdog than he is now in his bid for the presidency.

An outsider born in New York City, Sanders was facing a popular five-term incumbent. He had already failed twice in bids for the U.S. Senate (1972 and 1974) and twice more as a candidate for governor (1972 and 1976). His brand of socialism was not faring too well in Vermont, where many voters leaned populist but were decidedly blue-collar on social issues such as guns, crime, and policing.

They may have agreed with him on jobs, but they were not likely to tolerate his apparently critical view of law enforcement — like the time he walked around Chicago posting fliers denouncing police brutality while a cop trailed behind him, taking them down.

So Sanders changed his tune on the police.

"Bernie took the approach that cops were 'labor,' not the enemy, their demands should be listened to, and they deserved higher pay," says Huck Gutman, his former chief of staff and longtime friend. "He promised to open negotiations with them and generally to keep coming back around to income and the economy.”

For reframing the issue, Sanders was rewarded. In a turn of events that "surprised everyone," Gutman says, the Burlington Patrolmen's Association decided to endorse him — the leftist, anti-Vietnam War agitator — rather than the incumbent, whom it had endorsed in the past. Even the police commissioner, Tony Pomerleau, a wealthy, conservative Republican who had frequently sparred with Sanders over the development of Burlington’s waterfront, was impressed and became an ally.

With their help, Sanders went on to win that election by 10 votes. Then he won 13 more races, serving as mayor for eight years and as a member of Congress for well over two decades and counting.
 

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1. shytty, unqualified candidates are getting hired as cops.
2. Higher pay and demanding better qualifications would improve the candidate pool.

1. shytty people are being hired as cops. Those shytty people then go on to make bad decisions.
2. The problem isn't the talent pool. That's a myth. Plenty of good individuals who would go on to make good cops are not being considered for the role.

What qualifications are you looking for that you believe will make a better law enforcement officer?
Which of those qualifications do you believe better pay will address?

Again, black people are not being targeted by law enforcement because they are underpaid.

Yes, the principle "If you pay more for a job then you'll get a larger pool of desirable candidates" is now a "classist" view. :mjlol:

You don't even have a list of qualifications you find to be desirable. It's more likely that law enforcement is setup the way it is, not because of the pay, but because the people who are doing the hiring are bad. You're operating on the false assumption that Law enforcement hiring looks the way it does because officers aren't paid enough therefore you don't get enough good people applying.

Just show me where you criticized Biden and Clinton on their police reform plans and I'll stand down. :unimpressed:

Marijuana legalization should be a part of the platform. I've commented before about how wild it is that he's not for full decriminalization of Marijuana, but wants to reduce the scheduling on cocaine (he should do both:hubie:
).

I've offered plenty of criticism regarding Biden. he wasn't my preferred candidate and I was happy with him losing the primaries. You're creating fantasy. I wasn't on this board when Clinton ran so I doubt we'd have had that discussion.

Don't take it personal, the criticism I'm making here also applies to Biden.:sas1:

I believe the police brutality thread was started off of one of my posts.:pachaha:

It's always been FTP over here. :gucci:
 

Pressure

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Bernie has a good proposal that he laid out there.

Leftists expecting him to be antagonistic to the police don't know Bernie's history. He won his first race for Mayor of Burlington, VT with strong backing of the police union.
full

Ask Bernie Sanders About Criminal Justice, He’ll Talk About Economics
This is one of my problems from viewing law enforcement through an economic lens. Police Unions consolidate power and then hold the country hostage while covering up their own injustices against people.

It effectively turns police into both labor and industry.
 

NZA

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his answer was "ok" for a normal politician, but i do expect a more systemic analysis from a democratic socialist. the only part of his analysis of police that is systemic is his speaking of them in a pro union way by advocating for higher wages and whatnot. he should also understand their role as the enforcement arm of capitalist oppression.
 

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This is one of my problems from viewing law enforcement through an economic lens. Police Unions consolidate power and then hold the country hostage while covering up their own injustices against people.

It effectively turns police into both labor and industry.
of course, that is the problem

i'd love to crush police unions but i do believe in unions all across sectors too
 

StatUS

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Well in 2016 having hot sauce in your bag was more important than saying black lives matter :unimpressed:
I think Hillary probably really likes hot sauce though. White people be eating that shyt all the damn time. Really weird she mentioned it on a black morning show though as a relatable moment :troll:
 

nyknick

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Bernie has a good proposal that he laid out there.

Leftists expecting him to be antagonistic to the police don't know Bernie's history. He won his first race for Mayor of Burlington, VT with strong backing of the police union.
full

Ask Bernie Sanders About Criminal Justice, He’ll Talk About Economics
I understand leftist being unhappy with Bernie on this but The Coli neo-libs in here are just being disingenuous :hubie:

You know if Bernie called for abolishing police they would be outraged. Bernie would be blamed for giving Trump ammo for the election, call him unrealistic and say the fact he's calling for abolishing police is just one of the reasons he lost the election :unimpressed:
 

Pressure

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of course, that is the problem

i'd love to crush police unions but i do believe in unions all across sectors too
I understand that pickle. That's obviously why people want to end things like qualified immunity. it sort of addresses that problem by attacking the pocket books. I listened to a talk surround the study mentioned here with regard to qualified immunity if anyone is interested in reading:

Ending ‘Qualified Immunity’ Won’t Make Cops More Accountable: Study | The Crime Report



Also here's a government study on the use of force by police:

https://www.usccr.gov/pubs/2018/11-15-Police-Force.pdf
 
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