Religion/Spirituality Atheism Discussion

[Slang]

Not all ceremonies are religious brehs, I said it once and I'll said again, bodies were being disposed of/buried before religions.I'm sure some religious people think atheists/agnostics would rather have the cadavers lying around

A burial is not necessarily a funeral. I am speaking specifically of the ceremony involved.

 

[Slang]

since atheists live in religious society's, chances are, a funeral is the only way an atheist is going to be able to honor the deceased and share in the mourning with the friends and family they care about. being a member of a community or family means you dont always get to dictate how things go. if you loved somebody enough to pay your respects, and they are having a funeral, you go to that funeral. simple as that.

Who are you really paying respects to? That person is now deceased.

Why attend when it conflicts with your beliefs? I am trying to understand why atheists would a choose for themselves or a loved one a burial over cremation or donating their body to science? A ceremony over a simple family gathering? If an atheist chooses to attend a funeral do they excuse themselves from the ceremony when a prayer is said?

 

[Slang]

You can't generalize all Atheist views on funerals

Where did you get the idea of a generalization? I am simply asking for input.

 

[mbewane]

Ok first of all the way you quote me makes it difficult for me to answer lol

Breh, I'm just playing with you because we've had these kind of "we are humans only thanks to God" discussions time and time again

I looked at the dictionary definition of "religion." http://www.oxforddictionaries.com defines religion as "the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods." If we are using this definition, then I wouldn't say that "every human being has a religion." However, I think this definition is very limited, because you have Jews who say they are atheists, but they still eat kosher...How can that be...?

There are many more examples, which are related to the reason why I asked you about the constitution

Jews say that because they use religion as an exclusive identity marker, given their history. It's also cultural, that's why you have "jew" atheists. Ask a French guy if he identifies as catholic, he'll probably say no. I know "muslims" who eats hallal and doesn't drink alcohol, buy don't give a fukk about religion per se, they just say they're muslim as an identity thing. You can also ask a Belgian if he's catholic he might say yeah but never goes to church or whatever.

and the end of the day it is most religious people just cannot conceive that yes, one can be a decent human being without religion, it's always the same counterarguments:

To me, the highlighted statement is one of the reasons why I state that "every human being has a religion"...Where is this idea of being a "decent human being" coming from...?
As far as I know, science has yet to prove the existence of good and evil/right and wrong...If religion is simply "superstition" and science is "facts" and the two are mutually exclusive, then I really don't understand why any scientific individual would think along the lines of "decent human being"...

I really find this fascinating...Why can't atheists understand that this is very confusing or maybe many of us don't really know what atheism means...?
But I believe one thing for sure, NOTHING is ever black and white with humans...Everything seems to be on a continuum...

"there has always been religion" (like anyone was there to record it at the very beginning) or "even if you don't know it, you're influenced by religion" (props for being condescending), "without religion we're animals" (and guess who's destroying the planet and all other animals. maybe it would be better if we WERE animals), etc.

(1) As far as recorded human history, almost all humans had/have a religion...That's anthropology 101...I made sure that I included "recorded human history" in my initial post, because I was anticipating a reply such as the one highlighted above...

(2) We are influenced by religion...That's not a good or bad thing...It's just something that is...Humans are influenced by everything they are aware of...That's all it is...

(3) With or without religion, we are still animals...Humans are mammals like lions, monkeys, apes, and dolphins...This is true with or without religion...But one thing that is very unique to the human animal is religion/culture/tradition...For me, religion, culture and tradition are all the same thing, even though, www.oxforddictionaries.com may not agree...

(4) I personally believe it is IMPOSSIBLE for human beings to "destroy" the planet...We will destroy ourselves, before we destroy the planet...There are some other species that will go on just fine without humans around, and the Universe, really doesn't care about humanity...

Our "religion" makes us think we special because we humans and we can think, love and dream and blah blah...But the Universe really doesn't give a fcuk about all that...

Life will exist with or without human beings...

Breh...you're doing EXACTLY what I was talking about in my post..."We are influenced by religion...it's just something that is"...this is why I have a hard time discussing with religious people because they always feel like "listen, I'm gonna listen to you, but no matter what you say religion influences you"

how can you seriously say culture, religion and tradition are the same thing lol

Yes I'm a law abiding citizen, but no I don't need the law or religion to tell me that killing is wrong for example.

I had an angle when posed those questions, but since I am going with www.oxforddictionaries.com definition of religion...I wont pursue that line of my reasoning...

However, I will say that, YES, you DO need the law to tell you that killing is "wrong"...The fact that you are even using the word "wrong" in that sentence is reason why I am making my statement...

There is nothing that is "right or wrong"/"good or evil" until somebody tells you that it is...

Do you believe that we are born with the knowledge of "right or wrong"/"good/evil"...?

We could conduct a VERY unethical scientific research to find out...But we already know from some psychological studies that we are at our MOST selfish and self-serving when we are very young, until we are taught about sharing, and working as a collective...

So basically you're saying that concepts as "decent human being" and "right or wrong" can't exist without religion? man...

 

[nineteeneightysix]

Ok first of all the way you quote me makes it difficult for me to answer lol
Jews say that because they use religion as an exclusive identity marker, given their history. It's also cultural, that's why you have "jew" atheists. Ask a French guy if he identifies as catholic, he'll probably say no. I know "muslims" who eats hallal and doesn't drink alcohol, buy don't give a fukk about religion per se, they just say they're muslim as an identity thing. You can also ask a Belgian if he's catholic he might say yeah but never goes to church or whatever.
Breh...you're doing EXACTLY what I was talking about in my post..."We are influenced by religion...it's just something that is"...this is why I have a hard time discussing with religious people because they always feel like "listen, I'm gonna listen to you, but no matter what you say religion influences you"
how can you seriously say culture, religion and tradition are the same thing lol
So basically you're saying that concepts as "decent human being" and "right or wrong" can't exist without religion? man...

(1) I concede that my initial response to the OP was based on a personal definition of "religion"...The reason why this discussions is a little confusing is because I am assuming me and you do NOT have the same definition of "religion"...

(2) That is why I cited the www.oxforddictionaries.com definition of "religion" to put us all on the same page...That dictionary defines "religion" as the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods...

(3) My assumption is, this is the definition that MOST atheist base their arguments on...And if this the definition that we both agree to use for this discussion, then I concede that saying "every human has a religion" is ridiculous ...Because I DO NOT have a "personal God or gods"...I will challenge ANY Jew, Christian or Muslim and demolish their garbage about a merciful god who cares and all that BS...You might as well believe in the fairy godmother and Oberon if you believe in YWH, Jesus or Allah...

So, you are not debating a "Bible Basher"...But I am a dude with multiple perspectives...I am comfortable making arguments for both camps...With that said...

(4) I will state that the www.oxforddictionaries.com definition of "religion" is VERY LIMITED...Religion has two components (A) Belief and (B) Practice...Therefore, the Oxford dictionary is only focusing on the "belief" part, and even WORSE, they are restricting this "belief" to the supernatural...

1. Not all religions are theist (believe in a god/s)...There are NON-THEIST religions out there...The most popular example is probably BUDDHISM...Are we going to say that Buddhism is NOT a religion, because Buddhism did not find the idea of a god necessary...
2. Science and Religion are not mutually exclusive...Some of the greatest scientists that ever lived were also religious...For example, Blaise Pascal and Sir Isaac Newton..Sir Isaac Newton spent just as much time on religion as he did on science...One of the most profound things my father ever told me was "maybe god or the gods created the Earth through the big bang to evolve", and my dad is a medical doctor...
3. A religion does NOT have to be "superstitious/supernatural"...I am religious (and I believe all humans are), but my religion is based on science...From a very young age I have been fascinated with religion, but I was also very keen on science...For example, Newton's Laws of Motion can be EASILY converted to a religion that can be used to guide people through life...Even Schrodinger's cat and Heinsenberg's uncertainty principle can be translated to a form that the everyday human can understand and used as a religion to guide people...

(5) www.thefreeonlinedictionary.com has more complete definition of religion...This definition is religion is a "belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe, a personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship, the life or condition of a person in a religious order, a set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader, a cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion."

I believe that the highlighted parts are IMPORTANT in any definition of religion, because as I previously stated, not ALL religions are theist...We all have a code of conduct, and that's the practical aspect of religion...

This why I can say that "every human being has a religion" because we all have "sets of beliefs, values and practices" that guide our existence on Earth...

(6) Me saying that we are all influenced by religion is not any different than Nas saying "since 91, name one rapper I didn't influence"...It's not any different then me saying "the great grandparents that you have never met influenced you"...

I didn't make that point to be condescending...That point is irrelevant in this argument...We have ALL been influenced by the history of Earth...That is a GIVEN...It doesn't score any points for theism nor atheism...It is just an assumption based on logic...

Conclusions,

1. Most atheist believe that religion only means a belief in a supernatural god(s)...That belief is NOT well researched...Why...?
2. Because there are NON-THEIST religions...The most famous example is BUDDHISM...
3. Therefore, you can be an atheist and STILL have a religion...Science and Religion are NOT mutually exclusive, and Science and atheism are NOT mutually inclusive...
4. Subsequently, a better definition for religion should also include "a set of beliefs, values, and practices" as defined by the Freeonlinedictionary...

Religion is NOT a derogatory term, as many atheists are unknowingly turning it to be, with their VERY LIMITED definition of the word...You can't separate religion from culture and tradition...

 

[NZA]

Who are you really paying respects to? That person is now deceased.

Why attend when it conflicts with your beliefs? I am trying to understand why atheists would a choose for themselves or a loved one a burial over cremation or donating their body to science? A ceremony over a simple family gathering? If an atheist chooses to attend a funeral do they excuse themselves from the ceremony when a prayer is said?

they can pay respects to the memory of the deceased. there are even religions that dont believe in disembodied souls that still have some kind of death ceremony. ask a jehovah's witness about that...

atheists are human. symbolic gestures that communicate the value of life, the need to grieve in a communal setting, honoring the wishes of the deceased who may have wanted a funeral, and wanting to please the friends and family who do want a funeral are all reasons why you would attend funerals without being religious.

you also have to remember, atheism is not a religion. conflicting with an atheist's lack of belief is not a big deal. it's not like making a muslim eat pork. atheists can involve themselves in stuff that is not tailored to their exact preferences if it is worthwhile to that atheist.

as far as cremation and donating bodies to science...

first, if the deceased did not want that, then you should not do that
second, atheists dont have to care about science, they dont have to be interested in cremations, and they dont have to be interested in going out of their way to be different. if they come from a culture where people have funerals, they might go with the culture.

i dont care about christmas on any spiritual level, but i give and receive gifts, eat christmas food, watch christmas movies, and accept the days off work that my company gives me. i am an american, this is my culture. being agnostic doesnt really conflict with anything.

 

[mbewane]

(1) I concede that my initial response to the OP was based on a personal definition of "religion"...The reason why this discussions is a little confusing is because I am assuming me and you do NOT have the same definition of "religion"...

(2) That is why I cited the www.oxforddictionaries.com definition of "religion" to put us all on the same page...That dictionary defines "religion" as the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods...

(3) My assumption is, this is the definition that MOST atheist base their arguments on...And if this the definition that we both agree to use for this discussion, then I concede that saying "every human has a religion" is ridiculous ...Because I DO NOT have a "personal God or gods"...I will challenge ANY Jew, Christian or Muslim and demolish their garbage about a merciful god who cares and all that BS...You might as well believe in the fairy godmother and Oberon if you believe in YWH, Jesus or Allah...

So, you are not debating a "Bible Basher"...But I am a dude with multiple perspectives...I am comfortable making arguments for both camps...With that said...

(4) I will state that the www.oxforddictionaries.com definition of "religion" is VERY LIMITED...Religion has two components (A) Belief and (B) Practice...Therefore, the Oxford dictionary is only focusing on the "belief" part, and even WORSE, they are restricting this "belief" to the supernatural...

1. Not all religions are theist (believe in a god/s)...There are NON-THEIST religions out there...The most popular example is probably BUDDHISM...Are we going to say that Buddhism is NOT a religion, because Buddhism did not find the idea of a god necessary...
2. Science and Religion are not mutually exclusive...Some of the greatest scientists that ever lived were also religious...For example, Blaise Pascal and Sir Isaac Newton..Sir Isaac Newton spent just as much time on religion as he did on science...One of the most profound things my father ever told me was "maybe god or the gods created the Earth through the big bang to evolve", and my dad is a medical doctor...
3. A religion does NOT have to be "superstitious/supernatural"...I am religious (and I believe all humans are), but my religion is based on science...From a very young age I have been fascinated with religion, but I was also very keen on science...For example, Newton's Laws of Motion can be EASILY converted to a religion that can be used to guide people through life...Even Schrodinger's cat and Heinsenberg's uncertainty principle can be translated to a form that the everyday human can understand and used as a religion to guide people...

(5) www.thefreeonlinedictionary.com has more complete definition of religion...This definition is religion is a "belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe, a personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship, the life or condition of a person in a religious order, a set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader, a cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion."

I believe that the highlighted parts are IMPORTANT in any definition of religion, because as I previously stated, not ALL religions are theist...We all have a code of conduct, and that's the practical aspect of religion...

This why I can say that "every human being has a religion" because we all have "sets of beliefs, values and practices" that guide our existence on Earth...

(6) Me saying that we are all influenced by religion is not any different than Nas saying "since 91, name one rapper I didn't influence"...It's not any different then me saying "the great grandparents that you have never met influenced you"...

I didn't make that point to be condescending...That point is irrelevant in this argument...We have ALL been influenced by the history of Earth...That is a GIVEN...It doesn't score any points for theism nor atheism...It is just an assumption based on logic...

Conclusions,

1. Most atheist believe that religion only means a belief in a supernatural god(s)...That belief is NOT well researched...Why...?
2. Because there are NON-THEIST religions...The most famous example is BUDDHISM...
3. Therefore, you can be an atheist and STILL have a religion...Science and Religion are NOT mutually exclusive, and Science and atheism are NOT mutually inclusive...
4. Subsequently, a better definition for religion should also include "a set of beliefs, values, and practices" as defined by the Freeonlinedictionary...

Religion is NOT a derogatory term, as many atheists are unknowingly turning it to be, with their VERY LIMITED definition of the word...You can't separate religion from culture and tradition...

Listen, you seem quite level-headed and all, but really what you're doing is expanding a definition in order to, for whatever purpose, include everything into religion. What does kissing on a cheek once (Belgium) or twice (France) have to do with religion? Nothing, it's just a cultural practice. What does being for against the death penalty have to do with religion, since practicionners of the same religions have different stances on it? Even something as "obvious" as the veil in Islamic societies has actually nothing to do with religion, but everything to do with cultural practices. Why is Judaism in Eastern Europe so different than Judaism in Northern Africa? Local culture. I could go on and on. Why do Italians speak closer to each other? Who knows, but I'm sure it's got not nothing with religion.

Let's spin this: if "you can't separate religion from culture and tradition", how do you explain the differences in beliefs, values and practices between Catholics (Poles and Mexicans for example), Protestants (Americans and Dutch, for example), Muslims (Senegalese and Afghans, for example) etc...?

 

[nineteeneightysix]

Listen, you seem quite level-headed and all, but really what you're doing is expanding a definition in order to, for whatever purpose, include everything into religion. What does kissing on a cheek once (Belgium) or twice (France) have to do with religion? Nothing, it's just a cultural practice. What does being for against the death penalty have to do with religion, since practitioners of the same religions have different stances on it? Even something as "obvious" as the veil in Islamic societies has actually nothing to do with religion, but everything to do with cultural practices. Why is Judaism in Eastern Europe so different than Judaism in Northern Africa? Local culture. I could go on and on. Why do Italians speak closer to each other? Who knows, but I'm sure it's got not nothing with religion.
Let's spin this: if "you can't separate religion from culture and tradition", how do you explain the differences in beliefs, values and practices between Catholics (Poles and Mexicans for example), Protestants (Americans and Dutch, for example), Muslims (Senegalese and Afghans, for example) etc...?

(1) I am NOT expanding any definition...I made a pretty concise argument...I gave a definition from www.oxforddictionaries.com and I explained why this definition was limited...
For example, if you look up the definition of health in www.oxforddictionaries.com it states that health is "the state of being free from illness or injury" but the World Health Organization (WHO) defines health as "a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity."
The WHO's definition of health CLEARLY is more DETAILED than www.oxforddictionaries.com...Other thinkers have challenged the WHO's definition of health...

Just like health, religion just can't be defined by saying religion is "a belief in a supernatural personal god(s)"...I gave an example of a religion WITHOUT a belief in god(s)...

I also pointed out that www.freeonlinedictionary.com had a MORE detailed definition of religion than www.oxforddictionaries.com...So, I just didn't make things up...

You can look up oxforddictionaries, you can look up freeonlinedictionary, and you can look up Buddhism and other ATHEIST RELIGIONS...Atheism means that you don't believe in god(s), but it doesn't necessarily mean that an atheist cannot be religious...

(2) Are you stating that Buddhism is not a religion...? If Buddhism does teach about god(s) i.e. does not promote a belief in god(s), doesn't that by definition make it atheist...?

(3) My friend, religion, culture and tradition are so intertwined that is damn near IMPOSSIBLE to determine where one begins and the other ends...

Here is my answer to your questions about why the same religions are practice differently in various parts of the world...

(A) I will use the example of the ZCC church in South Africa, because I lived in South Africa and I have visited the headquarters of that church...

(B) Before the westerners brought Christianity to South Africa, Africans had their own religions, traditions and cultures...There was just no easy way to fully convert everybody to the western idea of Christianity...People already had their belief systems...

(C) The ZCC church practices Christianity, but they have also incorporated elements of African beliefs/religions, traditions and culture in their practice of Christianity...

For example, in the ZCC Church the cow is an important symbol, and it makes sense, because the cow traditionally is a very important symbol in South African beliefs, tradition and cultures...

Another example, many Africans who say they are Christian will still go to a Sangoma (traditional) healer to fight evil spirits...Many Africans who claim to be Christians still try to communicate with the spirits of their ancestors, because that was practised in African religions that came before Christianity...

If you bring a guitar/piano to an African village, the people are going to play that instrument the way they play it...They will put their own twist to it...

People had religions before Judaism (which is not really a religion) Christianity and Islam...

Many cultural practices are based on superstition...I am NOT saying that ALL cultural and traditional practices are based on religion...What I am saying is that it is hard to tell which are and which aren't...In fact, I am saying it is IMPOSSIBLE...

 

[mbewane]

(1) I am NOT expanding any definition...I made a pretty concise argument...I gave a definition from www.oxforddictionaries.com and I explained why this definition was limited...
For example, if you look up the definition of health in www.oxforddictionaries.com it states that health is "the state of being free from illness or injury" but the World Health Organization (WHO) defines health as "a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity."
The WHO's definition of health CLEARLY is more DETAILED than www.oxforddictionaries.com...Other thinkers have challenged the WHO's definition of health...

Just like health, religion just can't be defined by saying religion is "a belief in a supernatural personal god(s)"...I gave an example of a religion WITHOUT a belief in god(s)...

I also pointed out that www.freeonlinedictionary.com had a MORE detailed definition of religion than www.oxforddictionaries.com...So, I just didn't make things up...

You can look up oxforddictionaries, you can look up freeonlinedictionary, and you can look up Buddhism and other ATHEIST RELIGIONS...Atheism means that you don't believe in god(s), but it doesn't necessarily mean that an atheist cannot be religious...

(2) Are you stating that Buddhism is not a religion...? If Buddhism does teach about god(s) i.e. does not promote a belief in god(s), doesn't that by definition make it atheist...?

(3) My friend, religion, culture and tradition are so intertwined that is damn near IMPOSSIBLE to determine where one begins and the other ends...

Here is my answer to your questions about why the same religions are practice differently in various parts of the world...

(A) I will use the example of the ZCC church in South Africa, because I lived in South Africa and I have visited the headquarters of that church...

(B) Before the westerners brought Christianity to South Africa, Africans had their own religions, traditions and cultures...There was just no easy way to fully convert everybody to the western idea of Christianity...People already had their belief systems...

(C) The ZCC church practices Christianity, but they have also incorporated elements of African beliefs/religions, traditions and culture in their practice of Christianity...

For example, in the ZCC Church the cow is an important symbol, and it makes sense, because the cow traditionally is a very important symbol in South African beliefs, tradition and cultures...

Another example, many Africans who say they are Christian will still go to a Sangoma (traditional) healer to fight evil spirits...Many Africans who claim to be Christians still try to communicate with the spirits of their ancestors, because that was practised in African religions that came before Christianity...

If you bring a guitar/piano to an African village, the people are going to play that instrument the way they play it...They will put their own twist to it...

People had religions before Judaism (which is not really a religion) Christianity and Islam...

Many cultural practices are based on superstition...I am NOT saying that ALL cultural and traditional practices are based on religion...What I am saying is that it is hard to tell which are and which aren't...In fact, I am saying it is IMPOSSIBLE...

Sorry breh, can't go on, this sounds too much like semantic backflips to me. I'm not convinced, but carry on

 

[nineteeneightysix]

Sorry breh, can't go on, this sounds too much like semantic backflips to me. I'm not convinced, but carry on

Essentially that what it comes down to...Semantics...

It's funny how religion is becoming a derogatory and scary word for some people...It is amazing how definition of words can affect societies...

 

[mbewane]

Essentially that what it comes down to...Semantics...

It's funny how religion is becoming a derogatory and scary word for some people...It is amazing how definition of words can affect societies...

It's scary when you see how religion can be used to control people and to rationalize certain behaviours. And create exclusion. As I often say, religion is just another political system , with the difference that you can't discuss with the head.

 

[mbewane]

@nineteeneightysix

In all honesty and to be fair, i'll easily admit that religion IS a big part of culture, as an inspiring writer I sometimes use some religious imagery and I often jokingly say "Inch'Allah" because a friend told me it can mean anything from "we'll see", "maybe" to "whatever" lol. So I'm not saying religion doesn't have ANY influence on culture, even for a non-religious guy like me etc. That would be too much to say. What I am denying is that it's the alpha and omega () of everything.

 

[Slang]

they can pay respects to the memory of the deceased. there are even religions that dont believe in disembodied souls that still have some kind of death ceremony. ask a jehovah's witness about that...

atheists are human. symbolic gestures that communicate the value of life, the need to grieve in a communal setting, honoring the wishes of the deceased who may have wanted a funeral, and wanting to please the friends and family who do want a funeral are all reasons why you would attend funerals without being religious.

you also have to remember, atheism is not a religion. conflicting with an atheist's lack of belief is not a big deal. it's not like making a muslim eat pork. atheists can involve themselves in stuff that is not tailored to their exact preferences if it is worthwhile to that atheist.

as far as cremation and donating bodies to science...

first, if the deceased did not want that, then you should not do that
second, atheists dont have to care about science, they dont have to be interested in cremations, and they dont have to be interested in going out of their way to be different. if they come from a culture where people have funerals, they might go with the culture.

i dont care about christmas on any spiritual level, but i give and receive gifts, eat christmas food, watch christmas movies, and accept the days off work that my company gives me. i am an american, this is my culture. being agnostic doesnt really conflict with anything.

The free thinking, rationalism that atheism touts is not so if an atheist is following cultural and social norms introduced and influenced by the dominate religions of the region.

As far as the symbolic aspect, symbolism is superstition presented in a logical form, yet without any real evidence of truth to its merits.

 

[NZA]

The free thinking, rationalism that atheism touts is not so if an atheist is following cultural and social norms introduced and influenced by the dominate religions of the region.

As far as the symbolic aspect, symbolism is superstition presented in a logical form, yet without any real evidence of truth to its merits.

atheism only touts a disbelief in deities. nothing more, nothing less. you are adding stuff that is not atheist.

 

[tmonster]

The free thinking, rationalism that atheism touts is not so if an atheist is following cultural and social norms introduced and influenced by the dominate religions of the region.

As far as the symbolic aspect, symbolism is superstition presented in a logical form, yet without any real evidence of truth to its merits.

lol, I beg to differ, I am an atheist, just like I am an azeus or amythra or afairies or alochness monther
but I certainly can have ceremonies to celebrate my loved ones
I can cherish and enjoy metaphors
and I can certainly recognize and enjoy symbolism
there is really only one thing I can't do as an atheist, I can't say I believe that god as he/she has been described to me exists.