.........wow I agree with ya Robbie -THIS IDIOT.
Sad to see grown men using those kind of terms to describe someones opinion. Hate speech. Cornball. He was right.
Religion/Spirituality Atheism and the black community...good read
- Thread starter Dusty Bake Activate
- Start date
Sad to see grown men using those kind of terms to describe someones opinion. Hate speech. Cornball. He was right.
yeahisaidit
All Star
the mechanic
Greasy philosophy
IT wasn't about me lame. I can't get that^ online, plus I'm a grown man.
anyway, I was saying that Christians shouldn't be generalized. I know you lames, live in this alternative universe- but you can't question or attack me for speaking on reality.
This was the steaming pile you posted verbatim
Even ignoring the obvious flaws in your reasoning(or lack thereof) because you forgot America has the Greatest number of Adults with invisible friends in the western world .....and Black people are at the vanguard with 90%+ ergo the probability of finding a black male atheist is less than 1/20 so obviously the young lady will most likely meet a religious man ...regardless of "swag"
The part where you slyly try to put down atheists (while stroking your own ego) as swagless,socially unaware and with indecent careers is funny because the inverse is often the case..atheists are generally better educated,more informed and more aware of their surroundings ...deep down youre conscious of this hence the pathological need for you to fly into any atheist related thread to stroke your impotent intellect.
Heres some mental viagra
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS5vid4GkEY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS5vid4GkEY[/ame]
TrueEpic08
Dum Shiny
I know I don't exactly comment much in this forum, but I had to come back for this.
@VictorVonDoom, I'm very glad that you made this thread, and I'm also very glad that there are people on the board willing to maturely discuss the subject, rather than immediately polarize themselves and resort to strawmen and ad hominem attacks.
In regard to the article, I also appreciate that it acknowledges the differences between being a White Athiest and being a Black Athiest. While I'm not one to emphasize racial difference in everything (I'm one of those "race is a social construct" types, though one that acknowledges that it's a construct that is immediately marked on you from inception, retroactively even, by your skin color, as well as one that has actual tangible effects because it's a social construct), those of other races and from other countries need to understand just how ingrained Evangelical Christianity is in Black history and liberation movements, and how frustrating that parallelism can be for a Black Athiest, or even a Black Agnostic.
To wit: I'm currently semi-dating a Black Agnostic right now. She was a part of the group of people that I went with to Alabama and Mississippi for my fieldwork and studies in Congressional/Civil Rights Politics. Because of the nature of the trip, of course a religion discussion occurs between the group the day before the trip ends.
Now, I declared my Atheism when I was about 14 years old. I felt absolutely nothing but boredom at best and contempt for constantly wasting my time at worst for Christianity and the Black Church up to that point, and witnessing the hypocrisy and opulence of the Black Megachurches of the South at that age crystallized my antipathy for life. So I've had to deal with condescending remarks, dirty, scathing looks, hatred and attacks on my very being from both my family (my mother is semi-okay with it. We don't talk about religion at all) and others at large for 11 years. My body and my mind are calloused to it at this point. So going 8 on 2 in a debate on Black religion is nothing to me.
She, however, was basically scared out of her mind to speak up, even though her disbelief was nothing even close to my Atheism-bordering-on-Nihilism (if you want me to explain, ask and I'll do so). I had to basically force her to speak for herself, to elucidate and defend her views, because she was so terrified and unsure of herself and her viewpoint (and she is honestly the most sweet and positive girl I've met as well. So much so that my libertine ass really shouldn't be dating her at all. That's a TLR thread, though).
That fear doesn't exist as heavily among Whites, nor is the cultural structuration the same. For Blacks, because we are not situated within a cultural dominant as those that have the ability to order it at will, we revert to subcultural forms and contexts. Specifically, ours is lineal and revolves around a strict sense of community, no doubt because of Black Americans' position as between poles (Too American to be African, too Black to be treated as much more than African-Americans within our country of birth. We'd make good nomads or Roma analogues in a Speculative Fiction story...). Inscribed upon all of that, as much a part of being Black in some ways as having Black skin, is being a Christian and loudly proclaiming it to the world. In comparison, whites don't have that pressure, and Europe has largely been secular since the mid-late 1800s (they are well and truly baffled by all of this).
Really, if you're not performing Christianity in that manner, your Blackness is called into question in a lot of ways; it's written into our skin. So even if you don't exactly believe, you pass for fear of ejection from the community. I loathe, abhor, and detest this with every fiber of my being. I refuse it with everything that I am and claim to be, and refuse to submit to it in body and in mind. And I would love nothing more than to see Blacks divest themselves of the belief or the need and desire to be included in such a structuration of a race and society.
But as that doesn't happen, sometimes you feel like you're at a crossroads with the dominant notions of your race, and you have to ask yourself a question: Will I let my self be inscribed with these additional elements of "Blackness" just so I can be authentically be called Black and perform it correctly, or will I divest myself of such a desire and perform it as I see fit. Even among Atheists and Agnostics (the girl is ambivalent on this), I feel they would choose the first.
With every bit of seriousness of mind and hardness of being, I would choose the latter and walk away from every relationship I had to do so.
I am sick of genuflection to this ideal because it supposedly "did something for us Blacks". I am sick of a certain notion of Blackness being contingent on performing religion. And I'm sick of seeing the fear of others of all races and cultures, Blacks most detestably, to break from it.
If I must live seul contre tous to do so, so be it. I am glad that I may not have to, though.
@VictorVonDoom, I'm very glad that you made this thread, and I'm also very glad that there are people on the board willing to maturely discuss the subject, rather than immediately polarize themselves and resort to strawmen and ad hominem attacks.
In regard to the article, I also appreciate that it acknowledges the differences between being a White Athiest and being a Black Athiest. While I'm not one to emphasize racial difference in everything (I'm one of those "race is a social construct" types, though one that acknowledges that it's a construct that is immediately marked on you from inception, retroactively even, by your skin color, as well as one that has actual tangible effects because it's a social construct), those of other races and from other countries need to understand just how ingrained Evangelical Christianity is in Black history and liberation movements, and how frustrating that parallelism can be for a Black Athiest, or even a Black Agnostic.
To wit: I'm currently semi-dating a Black Agnostic right now. She was a part of the group of people that I went with to Alabama and Mississippi for my fieldwork and studies in Congressional/Civil Rights Politics. Because of the nature of the trip, of course a religion discussion occurs between the group the day before the trip ends.
Now, I declared my Atheism when I was about 14 years old. I felt absolutely nothing but boredom at best and contempt for constantly wasting my time at worst for Christianity and the Black Church up to that point, and witnessing the hypocrisy and opulence of the Black Megachurches of the South at that age crystallized my antipathy for life. So I've had to deal with condescending remarks, dirty, scathing looks, hatred and attacks on my very being from both my family (my mother is semi-okay with it. We don't talk about religion at all) and others at large for 11 years. My body and my mind are calloused to it at this point. So going 8 on 2 in a debate on Black religion is nothing to me.
She, however, was basically scared out of her mind to speak up, even though her disbelief was nothing even close to my Atheism-bordering-on-Nihilism (if you want me to explain, ask and I'll do so). I had to basically force her to speak for herself, to elucidate and defend her views, because she was so terrified and unsure of herself and her viewpoint (and she is honestly the most sweet and positive girl I've met as well. So much so that my libertine ass really shouldn't be dating her at all. That's a TLR thread, though).
That fear doesn't exist as heavily among Whites, nor is the cultural structuration the same. For Blacks, because we are not situated within a cultural dominant as those that have the ability to order it at will, we revert to subcultural forms and contexts. Specifically, ours is lineal and revolves around a strict sense of community, no doubt because of Black Americans' position as between poles (Too American to be African, too Black to be treated as much more than African-Americans within our country of birth. We'd make good nomads or Roma analogues in a Speculative Fiction story...). Inscribed upon all of that, as much a part of being Black in some ways as having Black skin, is being a Christian and loudly proclaiming it to the world. In comparison, whites don't have that pressure, and Europe has largely been secular since the mid-late 1800s (they are well and truly baffled by all of this).
Really, if you're not performing Christianity in that manner, your Blackness is called into question in a lot of ways; it's written into our skin. So even if you don't exactly believe, you pass for fear of ejection from the community. I loathe, abhor, and detest this with every fiber of my being. I refuse it with everything that I am and claim to be, and refuse to submit to it in body and in mind. And I would love nothing more than to see Blacks divest themselves of the belief or the need and desire to be included in such a structuration of a race and society.
But as that doesn't happen, sometimes you feel like you're at a crossroads with the dominant notions of your race, and you have to ask yourself a question: Will I let my self be inscribed with these additional elements of "Blackness" just so I can be authentically be called Black and perform it correctly, or will I divest myself of such a desire and perform it as I see fit. Even among Atheists and Agnostics (the girl is ambivalent on this), I feel they would choose the first.
With every bit of seriousness of mind and hardness of being, I would choose the latter and walk away from every relationship I had to do so.
I am sick of genuflection to this ideal because it supposedly "did something for us Blacks". I am sick of a certain notion of Blackness being contingent on performing religion. And I'm sick of seeing the fear of others of all races and cultures, Blacks most detestably, to break from it.
If I must live seul contre tous to do so, so be it. I am glad that I may not have to, though.
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Dusty Bake Activate
Fukk your corny debates
IT wasn't about me lame. I can't get that^ online, plus I'm a grown man.
anyway, I was saying that Christians shouldn't be generalized. I know you lames, live in this alternative universe- but you can't question or attack me for speaking on reality.
Real talk, you generally come off as an insecure little bytch dude. Geez, what do you act like this for? Every single debate about any topic, the whole time you're calling people "lames" and basically trying to prove to everyone (probably yourself mostly) what a cool, awesome guy you are.
What are we in 9th grade? Are you trying to compensate for being unpopular in high school or something?
Dusty Bake Activate
Fukk your corny debates
Truly epic post.
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Personaly i think more often than not, a person can spot agnostics and athiest wherever you see people. The majority of them are the ones holding religous titles (Catholic, Christian, Muslim and so on). Those kind are contradictory at heart because they know deep down there's a secret feeling of doubt, lack of faith and mistrust concerning the whole religious buisness. But ofcourse they are frightend and even ashamed to admit it, and Its both funny and sad. Cause although they say they belive in GOD, if you'd examine them a little closer and watch them actually, you will see that what they really have is a strong demand for comfort and a sense of securtiy, so they begin to cling to a belief about believing in GOD and not an actual BELIEF IN GOD. They are deluding themselves whether they are aware of it or not, at least i think so. And its not hard to see this in people.
Because if you think about it.. to ACTUALLY BELIEVE, to ACTUALLY believe in GOD not as a "theory" or a "concept" or some character in a "book" but to ACTUALY believe in the REALITY of GOD... that right there has such ENORMOUS implications! ...i dont think many people realize how enormous of a thing that is to actually believe in the GOD of the bible. The person who really believed would stand out SOOoooo completely. And with the number of people claming to be "real believers" ...my goodness.. this world would be VERY VERY different if they were indeed true believers in GOD as a REALITY and not just as a some comfortable 'thought' or 'Idea.'
Sunalmighty
Superstar
I can dig that. These churches have twisted the true meaning of ministry. I believe in Christ, it doesn't bother me to admit it. But, it's EASY for someone to abandon their faith because of the things that go on inside these churches, televangelist, scandals, etc. I nearly gave up a few times, because they make church out to be a hustle, and it has become. The bible says that true religion is "to visit the widows and fatherless in their affliction". I don't see that. In these churches, they are more concerned with tithing and offering, a blessing plan. My thing is, "why don't you niccas ask ME how I am doing BEFORE asking me to empty my bank account". I don't believe in that. Jeremiah 23 deals with false prophets. Niccas go through all kinds of stuff, mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually, etc, and they have the balls to collect W4 forms to let people know how much they should be tithing
Majestyx
Duck Season
The Clergy Project - Home Page
dedicate to people in or used to be in the clergy that are atheist or agnostic
intilectual recipricol
Killin fake hip hop
@ simple atheists...prolly because we see the harm in believing in myths and trying to impose whatever one gets from those myths onto society
@TrueEpic08
why nihilistic? I always felt that once I abandoned belief I found MORE reason for existence and life than I ever did when a "believer"... As a Christian I never could find the purpose in life if that next stage was so much better, may as well die now. Now that I recognize that there's nothing after this life I find more reason to live and do stuff--even if its for the short period of time we're here.
I know in my situation I havent faced too much backlash, hardly any I'd say, from my family. They know not to engage me in any theological discussion because I have already demonstrated that I know the bible far better than they do. One of the reasons I take an aggressive stance is because I find that most if not all believers I come across literally know next to nothing about their religion beyond superficial beliefs. And its insulting to me to have someone who knows less about the particular topic lecture me because they get a "feeling" when Ive done the actual research. Imagine me lecturing Neil DeGrasse Tyson about astro physics because I looked at a star...
As far as what the "Church" has done for black people, I think we need to highlight that there were people behind a lot of civil rights movements that were indeed open atheists. This would help to break the idea that the church is/was solely responsible for Civil Rights, and that Rational Thought, not religion, was the engine behind the movement.
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first off you don't know anything about "real talk", you're too busy trying to pretend the internet is reality and making post ^ against posters who make you feel lame about ur real life.
not tryin to prove anything. And I really don't start shyt on here; got in tons of debates, I rarely talk sh1t. besides, i was just responding to a poster... it's no big deal so calm down n mind ur business. I don't talk sh1t in most debates so stop making sh1t up. I say lame because the poster (whoever the shoe fits) probably is lame and also because lame isn't really too harsh. I'm not on here tryin to prove sh1t or trying to go extra hard at anyone...... I'm not like u.
Dusty Bake Activate
Fukk your corny debates
first off you don't know anything about "real talk", you're too busy trying to pretend the internet is reality and making post ^ against posters who make you feel lame about ur real life.
not tryin to prove anything. And I really don't start shyt on here; got in tons of debates, I rarely talk sh1t. besides, i was just responding to a poster... it's no big deal so calm down n mind ur business. I don't talk sh1t in most debates so stop making sh1t up. I say lame because the poster (whoever the shoe fits) probably is lame and also because lame isn't really too harsh. I'm not on here tryin to prove sh1t or trying to go extra hard at anyone...... I'm not like u.
Proving my point even further. Look, there's a pretty good adult discussion in this thread. Please take your incessant need to try and validate yourself by calling people "lame" and stroking your own ego with your usual unprompted
about how you're this super-swaggerific God-fearing "black king" who's fukked 58499358430095 atheist dimes on some higher plane of existence elsewhere, please.
This was the steaming pile you posted verbatim
Even ignoring the obvious flaws in your reasoning(or lack thereof) because you forgot America has the Greatest number of Adults with invisible friends in the western world .....and Black people are at the vanguard with 90%+ ergo the probability of finding a black male atheist is less than 1/20 so obviously the young lady will most likely meet a religious man ...regardless of "swag"
Y r u addressing me again???????First, if I call u a lame, it's just my assumption. And what I said to the young lady wasn't based on flawed reasoning. Everyone knows that most Americans aren't atheist. Obviously if there are men out there that she might like, the chance of that individual being religious is higher... which is my point. She wouldn't need to find an atheist to get the qualities I referenced.
fyi, egos aren't stoked by disputing generalizations. Also, I mostly was defending Christians-- which I'm not a part of.
Nobody is putting down atheist. My lil bro is an atheist, he's aight w the people skills, so obviously not All atheist are like you all. Which was my other point. There are swaggless atheist. You all can Pretend like the socially inept atheist who spends all day dissing people online ^ they only virtually know... doesn't exist - but it does. I didn't say religious people r better... whereas you atheist try over and over again to claim all these great things about atheist in general.
Also, I 'flew' into the thread because it said black community, I was expecting something slightly different.... I should have known it would be the tale of the black atheist who is laid on the ground and sh!tted on by everyone they know- just for the crime of not believing in anything except randomness.
smh. Heres some mental viagra
[youtube video about sh1t you learn online and in high school]
, You talked sh1t in the first post when I wasn't even responding to u... I barely respond back; blow u off as a random lame... And you come back with alllllllll this sh1t so that I can address you pitiful post. What do you want me to say fakkit??? I'm really asking you, because I don't want to go tit for tat, and you completely wrong in what you're assuming anyway, so wtf is the point?
you post a video of random 'all over the place' points, which, I'm assuming, are addressing ultra religious Christians from the south(?). The video is dumb because it's not saying anything that people don't know and it isn't saying anything that religious people don't know. The video it self said- this has been know for 400 years. I swear, you must have never attended any universality... In any science class you take, guess what! there will be religious people there. Don't tell me you're one of those people who automatically assumes every religious person is ignorant on every topic in the world. OR r you one of those people who ignore the fact that most advancements of our species have come (and continue to) from illogical people who believe in God. I'm responding to your retarded sh1t at this very moment because of the technological advances of ... religious people. The fact that you even think that bootleg video is putting anyone up on anything, is very telling.
Like I said to that Indian Character, I say lame to not be too harsh - only to tell u what u are and to let u all know I'm not taking this sh1t as serious, so you don't even have to do all this with me. IF you disagree (as I stated before) just make a point, no need for this other sh1t.
Anyway, tell me what you want from me breh or just
Look, there's a pretty good discussion in this thread. Please take your incessant need to try and validate yourself by calling people "lame" and stroking your own ego with your usual unprompted
I didn't derail sh1t, and how is it my fault some lame wants to address every post I make ^? I was just responding to 1 poster w my opinion on what she was addressing. What r u jealous? I said something matter of factually just to relate the previous point.. and you keep talking ego this n that. 
At you, because if you feel that I would even be doing that to stoke an ego via a message board... that just shows what most of the posters have know for years about the purple lipped indian character. But what do you need from me though?... I don't think I post things to solicit a response from every "lame" (now imma say the sh1t incessantly ,lol) n1gga on here.
Dusty Bake Activate
Fukk your corny debates
Yeah, that community dynamic can be very restrictive. I'm not timid and fearful about expressing my beliefs on religion like your girl, but I definitely know it's a lot more sensitive to discuss and I word myself more carefully around my black family and friends than than white people.
I can flippantly talk about religion being bullshyt to my white co-workers like nothing. Sometimes when I'm telling my black peoples my opinions on religion, I find myself actually feeling ashamed for a second, as if somehow there's something wrong with me and whatever aspersions might be cast upon me and my beliefs are true. Then I snap out of it and speak my mind, but not as flippantly or biting as I might around white people who I don't feel any sort of cultural kinship with.
But I don't hide or compromise my integrity about it. I don't seek out religious discussions, but if it comes up I tell people what it is. My mom still tries to convert me back all the time. Any time I talk to her about issue going on, her first recourse is to tell me I need to get back in church. But I tell her straight up it's never going to happen no matter how much she asks. She says that hurts her. I'm sorry it does, but I can't help that.
