At This Moment, Where Is John Cena On The All Time List?

[DeathWish]

Ratings and live attendance numbers have dropped every year ever since Cena has been "the guy" So what are you talking about?

When Hogan , Austin, and Rock were on top ratings went up, when Cena's on top ratings go down. Hogan, Austin, Rock and every other major face was able to get over and get cheered. Cena get's booed because he's boring as fukk.

When you took into account all the other ways there are to watch televison these days, WWE is watched by roughly the same number of people they were in 2005. When WWE gets 4.5 million live viewers now it's usually around a 3.0-3.2 rating. The same number of viewers 5-10 years ago would have been a 3.5-4.0 rating.

Live attendance is not down.

Here are some business figures from WWE for May 2013:

- The average house show attendance was 4,438 paid per show, up 10% from 2012.

411mania.com: Wrestling - WWE News: Latest Wrestlemania 29 Buyrate Estimate, May 2013 WWE Business Figures

And that's including all WWE live events, including the cards without Cena which draw terribly. If we were talking just Cena shows the average would be higher. Ever since he took over in 2005 he's consistently drawn crowds. Shows with Cena headlining in small time USA aren't drawing less than 2,000 people and he's not main eventing half empty MSG cards like was happening with people like Shawn and Bret on top. And in 2003-2004 business was trending that way again with HHH/JBL/Benoit/Eddie on top. Cena stepped in and stopped that from happening.

I already said Hogan, Austin and Rock drew more money, adjusted for inflation, that Cena. Those were the three specific names I mentioned because they are the only ones who made more money than Cena. Some diehard fans might not like to hear it but Cena has drawn more than the Flair's and the Sting's and the Bret's and the Shawn's.

Being booed has nothing to do with drawing power. Floyd Mayweather is booed out the building every fight he has and he's still the biggest draw in boxing. Justin Bieber is booed at awards shows and in general he's hated by a lot of people and he's still the biggest draw in music.

More people love John Cena, and will pay specifically to see him, than any other active wrestler in the world. It's the people who love him who WWE caters to because they bring in the most money. WWE doesn't care if half the crowd boos him sometimes. They only care about money. There are wrestlers who get near unanimously positive crowd reactions every week but viewers don't tune in when they're on TV or don't pay money to see shows headlined by them.

 

[AKM-95]

Cena is in my top 20. Yeah he's a 13 time champion but his reigns didn't have the same impact as the legends before him. I personally compare him more to Bret Hart than the likes of hogan, flair, rocky, or Austin. Because he has a limited amount of cross over appeal when compared to some of the past greats.

 

[Bonefan32]

I would never put him on any list except my hit list whenever I learn how to properly use a gun



he will never pass

Hulk Hogan
Terry Funk
Ric Flair
Dusty Rhodes
Stone Cold
The Rock
Bret Hart
Shawn Michaels
Randy Savage
Roddy Piper
Undertaker
Sting
Jake Roberts
Mr Perfect
Booker T
RVD
Jeff Hardy
Chris Jericho
Triple H
and Many more

and hes way behind



Earnest the Cat Miller
Matt Hardy
Blue Meanie
Ralphus
Sign Guy
that piece of ear mick foley left behind in Japan

but thats just my personal thoughts

 

[Reggie]

He's up there and is only gonna rise higher as the years go by. Cant put him over cats like Hogan Rock Flair Austin Bret HBK and Macho Man yet but he's on the same level as them as far as impact and money making is concerned. Eventually he will be in the top 5 I believe.

 

[NOSaintsFan02]

He's in that third tier of wrestling superstardom.

1st Tier - Hogan, Austin, Flair, Rocky
2nd Tier - HBK, Undertaker, Savage, Sting
3rd Tier - Jericho, Cena, Angle, HHH

As much as I love Flair, I think only three deserve to be in that top tier and that's Austin/Rock/Hogan. No wrestlers come close to the impact those 3 had on professional wrestling's relevancy.

I'd put Flair in the 2nd tier.

Heck, at this point, I'd probably even put Cena in the 2nd tier too. I mean like it or not, he's been the top guy for nearly a decade now and while he hasn't made wrestling as popular or huge as Austin, Hogan, and Rock did, he made a big enough impact to be considered a 2nd tier guy IMO.

 

[TrueEpic08]

In terms of drawing money he’s number four. Adjusted for inflation, only Hogan, Austin and Rock drew more money than Cena in the history of American wrestling.

ESPN put his retail worth to the company at $110 mill in the year 2010 alone. The amount of money he brings in is unreal.

People usually talk about the merchandise he shifts and the charity work he does but it’s his impact on live attendance that’s WWE’s real bread and butter. When he's not advertised the shows usually tank. Without Cena live attendance would go back to 2003-04 levels and WWE’s overall revenue at the end of the year wouldn’t look as healthy as it has done.

Where the fukk are you getting #4 in history from? In the history of wrestling? Absolutely impossible from a pure numbers perspective, adjusted for inflation, and even if you limited it to just North American wrestling. No chance that this is true.

And the house show business bump that you cite is a result of the overall product being hot, not Cena (probably has more to do with Rock's return than anything). If Cena was such a drew in that respect, why had attendances and live event numbers been dropping with him on top before 2012?

 

[Silkk]

No. I never said he got over because of anyone leaving. Who cares if he got over or not. I said the company push wasn't possible without Rock and Lesnar being gone. That's how he became who he is. John Cena used to be Lesnar's bytch during his whole run. He was slapping him up week in and week out. He was doing opening matches on Rock PPVs.

I don't give a fukk what the case can be made for..those guys didn't draw shyt on top and Razor was more over than Bret or Michaels heading into 96. They specifically chose Razor over Michaels in two matches....Michaels was the face but got booed in that little experiment in the rematch when he was supposedly face.

Fans chose Eddie over Cena in SEVERAL matches in 2003 and 2004. They tag teamed together and they acted like Cena wasn't even in the match. They did a Survivor Series match with Team Guerrero and they made some big angle on Cena returning and Eddie had the fans going nuts. Rumble 2005..they were more into Eddie Guerrero than Batista, Cena, Benoit, or anyone in that match. Easily. They went fukking NUTS for Eddie @ WM 21 over Angle, Michaels, Cena, or Batista and he was doing the opening fukking match at that

Taker got cheered over Cena in every segment they've ever done. From day one...what the hell you've been watching? Forgot when he got booed out against Taker at NWO 07? Or the match on Raw when Taker tombstoned him? Or the match on PPV in 2003? Or the endless Smackdowns during their feud when he was the heel fans kept cheering for?

How should i begin this.....

1. You're saying he wouldnt have gotten over if Rock/Lesnar wouldnt have left

2. Razor was more over than Bret & HBK? Why wasnt he headlining then? Link?

3. Cena was heel in 03/04, of course they would choose eddie Everything is on youtube, that whole third paragraph is

4. Who has been cheered over Taker since 04? Dont worry i'll wait

Every time you reply you change the whole point of argument

 

[DeathWish]

Where the fukk are you getting #4 in history from? In the history of wrestling? Absolutely impossible from a pure numbers perspective, adjusted for inflation, and even if you limited it to just North American wrestling. No chance that this is true.

Who made more money than him then, other than those three? Name names. You can’t because there isn’t anyone else.

The top guys in the 60’s/70’s/early 80’s only headlined one or two shows a month. NWA guys like Flair and Dusty regularly wrestled in front of crowds of less than 1000. Guys like Savage and Piper were number two guys. Guys like Warrior, Sting and Goldberg had one huge drawing match in their entire careers. Guys like Bret and Shawn just didn’t draw, period.

As of 2008 Cena had already made more money than anyone in company history except Austin and Hogan. And again, in 2010 he alone was worth ONE HUNDRED AND TEN MILLION DOLLARS to WWE according to actual business analysts. Since Cena took over in 2005 WWE has done great business. 7 of the 8 years he’s headlined they’ve produced HUGE net revenue. The only disappointing year was because of money wasted on the movie division and Linda’s senate campaign.

Where the fukk are you getting #4And the house show business bump that you cite is a result of the overall product being hot, not Cena (probably has more to do with Rock's return than anything). If Cena was such a drew in that respect, why had attendances and live event numbers been dropping with him on top before 2012?

You talking B squad house shows headlined by bums like Randy Orton and CM Punk? Because Cena headlined shows still do good business.

And if “the product draws, not Cena” then why do shows he’s not advertised for draw terribly while shows he is advertised for well? Why do main events with Cena hold up in the ratings then when it’s Bryan/Punk/Orton or anyone else who isn’t either Cena or a returning attitude era star usually flop?

 

[Rarely-Wrong Liggins]

Ratings and live attendance numbers have dropped every year ever since Cena has been "the guy" So what are you talking about?

When Hogan , Austin, and Rock were on top ratings went up, when Cena's on top ratings go down. Hogan, Austin, Rock and every other major face was able to get over and get cheered. Cena get's booed because he's boring as fukk.

Ratings were up because wrestling as a whole was popular. There were a lot of factors that allowed for the level of popularity and Cena doesn't have the benefit of any of them while at the same time being saddled with a number of handicaps. Yet, he's still making the WWE a shyt ton of money. That's amazing all by itself.

 

[Nintendough]

I would never put him on any list except my hit list whenever I learn how to properly use a gun



he will never pass

Hulk Hogan
Terry Funk
Ric Flair
Dusty Rhodes
Stone Cold
The Rock
Bret Hart
Shawn Michaels
Randy Savage
Roddy Piper
Undertaker
Sting
Jake Roberts
Mr Perfect
Booker T
RVD
Jeff Hardy
Chris Jericho
Triple H
and Many more

and hes way behind



Earnest the Cat Miller
Matt Hardy
Blue Meanie
Ralphus
Sign Guy
that piece of ear mick foley left behind in Japan

but thats just my personal thoughts

At least you admit that this putrid rant has absolutely no credibility or merit outside of it being your personal opinion.

No. I never said he got over because of anyone leaving. Who cares if he got over or not. I said the company push wasn't possible without Rock and Lesnar being gone. That's how he became who he is. John Cena used to be Lesnar's bytch during his whole run. He was slapping him up week in and week out. He was doing opening matches on Rock PPVs.

I don't give a fukk what the case can be made for..those guys didn't draw shyt on top and Razor was more over than Bret or Michaels heading into 96. They specifically chose Razor over Michaels in two matches....Michaels was the face but got booed in that little experiment in the rematch when he was supposedly face.

Fans chose Eddie over Cena in SEVERAL matches in 2003 and 2004. They tag teamed together and they acted like Cena wasn't even in the match. They did a Survivor Series match with Team Guerrero and they made some big angle on Cena returning and Eddie had the fans going nuts. Rumble 2005..they were more into Eddie Guerrero than Batista, Cena, Benoit, or anyone in that match. Easily. They went fukking NUTS for Eddie @ WM 21 over Angle, Michaels, Cena, or Batista and he was doing the opening fukking match at that

Taker got cheered over Cena in every segment they've ever done. From day one...what the hell you've been watching? Forgot when he got booed out against Taker at NWO 07? Or the match on Raw when Taker tombstoned him? Or the match on PPV in 2003? Or the endless Smackdowns during their feud when he was the heel fans kept cheering for?

This is what happens when you don't watch wrestling until 2002-2003.

 

[showtime]

Ratings were up because wrestling as a whole was popular. There were a lot of factors that allowed for the level of popularity and Cena doesn't have the benefit of any of them while at the same time being saddled with a number of handicaps. Yet, he's still making the WWE a shyt ton of money. That's amazing all by itself.

Wrestling was popular because of guys like Hogan, Macho man, The Rock, and Austin. They were entertaining and brought in the mainstream fanbase. Cena made wrestling unpopular again and corny, he lost the mainstream fanbase. A lot of people stopped watching wrestling because of Cena that's why the ratings went down almost every year he's been on top. People that watch now are Cena fans or so die hard that they would watch anything. So of course when Cena's on the numbers will go up, but when you look at the amount of people that stopped watching he isn't a draw.

The WWE could've taken anybody and had them win over and over and be world champion like Cena and you all would say he's the greatest just because he's winning fake matches. HBK said it best however the WWE wants you to see things that's how the fans will see it. This thread proves that point.

 

[Rarely-Wrong Liggins]

Got a bunch of marks in here.

 

[DeathWish]

Wrestling was popular because of guys like Hogan, Macho man, The Rock, and Austin. They were entertaining and brought in the mainstream fanbase. Cena made wrestling unpopular again and corny, he lost the mainstream fanbase. A lot of people stopped watching wrestling because of Cena that's why the ratings went down almost every year he's been on top. People that watch now are Cena fans or so die hard that they would watch anything. So of course when Cena's on the numbers will go up, but when you look at the amount of people that stopped watching he isn't a draw.

The fukk are you talking about? What mainstream audience did he lose?

Seriously, you are aware that ratings started going down from peak attitude era numbers in late 2000? FIVE years before Cena got on top. And then ratings bottomed out in 2002 and didn’t pick up until THREE years later when Cena became the man.

Dude, if you’re simply not a fan of the guy it’s okay to just say that without having to make shyt up when anyone with half a brain is able to look this stuff up and find the actual facts.

The WWE could've taken anybody and had them win over and over and be world champion like Cena and you all would say he's the greatest just because he's winning fake matches. HBK said it best however the WWE wants you to see things that's how the fans will see it. This thread proves that point.

Randy Orton is a 9 time world champion and has never drew a dime. Alberto Del Rio is a 4 time world champ and still isn’t over. CM Punk has the longest title reign in a quarter of a century and people were tuning out of his segments on TV. Edge had nearly a dozen title reigns and didn't draw much. Undertaker has been damn near invincible for 20 years and he's never been a big moneymaker.

No one draws money simply because of kayfabe accomplishments. They draw money by connecting with the audience. Cena was the biggest merch mover in the company a year before he was even pushed to the main event.

 

[R=G]

How should i begin this.....

1. You're saying he wouldnt have gotten over if Rock/Lesnar wouldnt have left

2. Razor was more over than Bret & HBK? Why wasnt he headlining then? Link?

3. Cena was heel in 03/04, of course they would choose eddie Everything is on youtube, that whole third paragraph is

4. Who has been cheered over Taker since 04? Dont worry i'll wait

Every time you reply you change the whole point of argument

LOL@asking me why Razor wasn't headlining. WHO THE fukk KNOWS? LOL. Why wasn't Jake the Snake made WWE Champion? Why didn't Ted Dibiase get the title? Why didn't Rick Rude get the title? Why didn't Mr. Perfect get the title? Why didn't Bad News Brown get the title? Why did they hold back RVD for 5 years and way after his hottest period? You know..when he was MUCH bigger than Cena in 2001

Cena getting over or not, he wouldn't be a main event talent on this level had Rock and Lesnar been there. He was basically Angle's bytch for his entire midcard run. WTF is wrong with you?

Cena wasn't no damn heel in 2004 And his heel status in 2003 didn't mean shyt..he was getting cheered weekly on a lower RVD level as if he wasn't even heel. Only in title....they were cheering big time for that rap gimmick bullshyt until he faced Eddie Guerrero in those US title matches and the fans stayed with Eddie over Cena every time. Same thing with Taker.

Who has been cheered over Taker since 2004? Eddie Guerrero at Armageddon 2004, Jeff Hardy got cheered over him in that match in London...pretty much the only ones that counted.

And I don't change anything. You didn't comprehend the easy points.

 

[Silkk]

LOL@asking me why Razor wasn't headlining. WHO THE fukk KNOWS? LOL. Why wasn't Jake the Snake made WWE Champion? Why didn't Ted Dibiase get the title? Why didn't Rick Rude get the title? Why didn't Mr. Perfect get the title? Why didn't Bad News Brown get the title? Why did they hold back RVD for 5 years and way after his hottest period? You know..when he was MUCH bigger than Cena in 2001

Cena getting over or not, he wouldn't be a main event talent on this level had Rock and Lesnar been there. He was basically Angle's bytch for his entire midcard run. WTF is wrong with you?

Cena wasn't no damn heel in 2004 And his heel status in 2003 didn't mean shyt..he was getting cheered weekly on a lower RVD level as if he wasn't even heel. Only in title....they were cheering big time for that rap gimmick bullshyt until he faced Eddie Guerrero in those US title matches and the fans stayed with Eddie over Cena every time. Same thing with Taker.

Who has been cheered over Taker since 2004? Eddie Guerrero at Armageddon 2004, Jeff Hardy got cheered over him in that match in London...pretty much the only ones that counted.

And I don't change anything. You didn't comprehend the easy points.

Dude wasnt even there in 2001

You're Ridiculous