They were a draw, money is money in pro wrestling and when you think the most influential and most well-known tag teams, they come to mine
At This Moment, Where Is John Cena On The All Time List?
- Thread starter Silkk
- Start date
They were a draw, money is money in pro wrestling and when you think the most influential and most well-known tag teams, they come to mine
Top 5 as far as impact and importance beyond the mat go. That's the real shyt that makes money.
They were a draw, money is money in pro wrestling and when you think the most influential and most well-known tag teams, they come to mine
This about the all time ranking. You cant rank a tag team on a singles all time list
true, R=G doesn't exactly like to stay with the flow of the convo lol
MrFirst2doit
All Star
Triple H, Edge, Orton, and Cena are hard to judge historically for the fact they all share a simliar trait... the never got over or beloved on their own accord.....they never really connected with the fans...
they got over because the E or politics or whatever reason decided to push them down our throats with multiple title reigns...
rock, austin, hogan, savage, jericho, Eddie Guerrero etc are all beloved.... why? what's the difference...the difference is the last few i mentioned had a connection with the audience that was REAL in a fake sport...
Cena to be fair has connected with children to his credit..... so like i said he is tough to figure out because we all know he has been handed all this success undeservedly... same for Hunter...
they got over because the E or politics or whatever reason decided to push them down our throats with multiple title reigns...
rock, austin, hogan, savage, jericho, Eddie Guerrero etc are all beloved.... why? what's the difference...the difference is the last few i mentioned had a connection with the audience that was REAL in a fake sport...
Cena to be fair has connected with children to his credit..... so like i said he is tough to figure out because we all know he has been handed all this success undeservedly... same for Hunter...
Great wrestler in a terrible era. Austin/Hogan/Rock/Savage/et al. would not have created legacies in this era. Cena's made the most of a bad deal. Definitely top 10.
TrueEpic08
Dum Shiny
IF we are taking both drawing power and working ability into consideration, and trying to be objective as possible...
John Cena is pretty much the Bret Hart of this generation: An undisputed top guy that carried the company through a fallow period. He's not the worker that Bret was, of course, but Bret probably isn't quite the draw that Cena is now (I'd like to see their numbers year to year side by side for comparison purposes, though). Like Bret, he's not close to the company and scene changing draw that Sammartino, Hogan, Austin, and Rock were in WWWF/WWF. He didn't carry the company in the way that Flair did for JCP/WCW. And he wasn't a super icon like the aformentioned 5 names, Andre the Giant, or, say, Antonio Inoki. He was outdrawn by Mistico overall in 2006 and 2008. He didn't do something monumental like sell out the Tokyo Dome more times than anyone ever, like Shinya Hashimoto. I could go on. He was the best guy in a down period over a long timeframe, like Bret Hart.
That's not a bad place to be in, especially when you consider that he's been a part of some of the greatest moments of this era (Money in the Bank 2011 vs. CM Punk and the first Rock/Cena match, for instance. fukk the second one though, that sucked ass). And, as much as some of us hate to admit it, he's been a part of some of the finest matches of the era as well (overall, he's a pretty decent, if spotty, worker that can raise or drastically lower his game according to the situation. The further he strays from his formulas, the better, in my irrelevant opinion. That's better than more top guys than you'd think). But is he as transcendent in his drawing power or cultural relevance as any of the 9 names I wrote above, or a Rikidozan, or El Santo, or Konnan (Konnan was HUGE in Mexico in the early-mid 1990s), or even Mitsuharu Misawa (Fun Fact: I don't put him in the drawing department, even through he drew well for AJPW, because AJPW got CRUSHED business wise by NJPW in the 90s. Hashimoto, Mutoh, hell, even Nobuhiko Takada were bigger stars and draws than Misawa). He's certainly above guys like HBK or Kevin Nash, because he didn't tank as a top guy. But he certainly didn't move anything in a truly significant way.
So I slot him right next to Bret Hart, maybe slightly above. And he probably ranks a bit below Randy Savage on the cultural relevancy scale. That's, what, Top 20 or so in history? Probably Top 15 since I started watching (1994)? That's not bad at all.
Let's not get started on more subjective rankings, though.
John Cena is pretty much the Bret Hart of this generation: An undisputed top guy that carried the company through a fallow period. He's not the worker that Bret was, of course, but Bret probably isn't quite the draw that Cena is now (I'd like to see their numbers year to year side by side for comparison purposes, though). Like Bret, he's not close to the company and scene changing draw that Sammartino, Hogan, Austin, and Rock were in WWWF/WWF. He didn't carry the company in the way that Flair did for JCP/WCW. And he wasn't a super icon like the aformentioned 5 names, Andre the Giant, or, say, Antonio Inoki. He was outdrawn by Mistico overall in 2006 and 2008. He didn't do something monumental like sell out the Tokyo Dome more times than anyone ever, like Shinya Hashimoto. I could go on. He was the best guy in a down period over a long timeframe, like Bret Hart.
That's not a bad place to be in, especially when you consider that he's been a part of some of the greatest moments of this era (Money in the Bank 2011 vs. CM Punk and the first Rock/Cena match, for instance. fukk the second one though, that sucked ass). And, as much as some of us hate to admit it, he's been a part of some of the finest matches of the era as well (overall, he's a pretty decent, if spotty, worker that can raise or drastically lower his game according to the situation. The further he strays from his formulas, the better, in my irrelevant opinion. That's better than more top guys than you'd think). But is he as transcendent in his drawing power or cultural relevance as any of the 9 names I wrote above, or a Rikidozan, or El Santo, or Konnan (Konnan was HUGE in Mexico in the early-mid 1990s), or even Mitsuharu Misawa (Fun Fact: I don't put him in the drawing department, even through he drew well for AJPW, because AJPW got CRUSHED business wise by NJPW in the 90s. Hashimoto, Mutoh, hell, even Nobuhiko Takada were bigger stars and draws than Misawa). He's certainly above guys like HBK or Kevin Nash, because he didn't tank as a top guy. But he certainly didn't move anything in a truly significant way.
So I slot him right next to Bret Hart, maybe slightly above. And he probably ranks a bit below Randy Savage on the cultural relevancy scale. That's, what, Top 20 or so in history? Probably Top 15 since I started watching (1994)? That's not bad at all.
Let's not get started on more subjective rankings, though.
TrueEpic08
Dum Shiny
Honest question: Do you think that Cena could've been a transcendent star on the level of a Rock, Austin, or Hogan if he had been given the chances that they had to do so?
There much more than that..they were the quinessential cool tag team of any era and definitely were the key draws of any organization they went to. Kids these days don't appreciate greatness from yesterday until they watch a few youtube vids and see a unique reaction but LOD was gully from the get go.
When it comes to John Cena, most importantly, he wouldn't even be who he is if not for Lesnar quitting and the Rock conquering the business by 29.
Wrong. Hogan was the prototype for the Cena push. He was handpicked and pushed HARD. He wasn't even a heel that got over huge forcing a turn like Cena, he was just a guy with a great look, charisma and the machine behind him.
Austin and Rock both were heels that got over to the point you had to turn them, like Cena. The difference between them and Cena is that in that era they didn't turn you face then strip away everything that got you cheered in the first place. After Cena turned in '04 they watered down his character more and more until he was just a generic do gooder. Austin and Rock never had to suffer through that.
Orton and HHH both have a crowd connection. Especially HHH. Only one I can say was forced is Edge.
I don't really care about the single's list..I was just thinking of who was better than Cena off the top of my head. Subtract the tag teams and he still isn't in the conversation to being a difference maker in any era. He matters because others quit or had better opportunities. That's a complete manifestation and a phony if I ever saw one.
You mean an era in which the industry is at it's apex as far as popularity and massive crossover media/social appeal, a prime Vince McMahon, viable competition, less health related scrutiny, and creative freedom across a broad spectrum ranging from storylines to mic work to matches? Yes, yes I do.
Now my question is would the Rock's and Austin's be able to build the same legacies under the constraints Cena must deal with and for as long? Remember, Austin and Rock had top level runs of two and three years respectively while Cena is in his eighth year.
TrueEpic08
Dum Shiny
I see your point, but I'm not so sure that he could've been that TRANSCENDENT level star. He clearly would've been much bigger than he is now, though (mostly because they wouldn't have fukked his character up, and they might have given him a heel run at some point if and when he got stale to the audience).
And the answer to your question is of course not. They could've stretched THEIR runs out and been more popular than Cena, and they MIGHT have gotten as or more popular than Cena in Cena's own era (Cena was pretty much the last guy to get really good booking on the way to being a main event level guy. Sucked afterward to diminishing returns, but '03-'04, maybe even early 05 Cena was fine), but after 2005 or 2006? Never. Tell me, who's been built in WWE solely after 2005 and not gotten sabotage booking for no reason? For that reason alone, they wouldn't have been popular. They might have been stars, but not even close to what they were in that 1996-2001 era of wrestling. Really, the only guy purely built after 2005 to even get to Cena's level was CM Punk, and that was a total fluke, by all accounts.
Ugh.
So annoying to even think about.
Dog Based Gremlin
Veteran
best reply in this thread
Cena still doesn't have that connection with the WHOLE audience after 8 years so i cant put him in the top 10 anything. Look at Lebron, dude was "hollywood Hogan" status in 2011, but Lebron won back his "hulkamaniacs" once he won the title. Cena still getting boo'd for being a shytty gimmick.
WWE pretty much made us deal with mediocre Cena by using that crappy famous line...
I always cringe when the announcers say this. Its like their trying to come up with a reason for why he gets boo'd---dude is trash in the ring unless he is wrestling a guy who can carry him (HBK, HHH, Punk, etc)
---his merchandise is trash shirts are trash
---Everything about Cena is trash in the long run, i just like how he is a great troll and the king of fukkery of this generation
but he not fukking with the GOATS on a legitimate stage
