At some point won't African immigrants just become AA?

[Poitier]

I didn't equate the formation of Black American identity with White America though, I said the same way you don't refer to the continent of origin of White Americans, why do you refer to the continent of origin of Black Americans...and at the same time separate yourself that people who come later from that very same continent?

We already established Black Americans are a specific entity, why not call that entity in a way that makes it more clearly specific? Why want to keep the "African" in "African American" when this whole thread is insisting on how non-African "African-Americans" are?

It's funny because I'm actually agreeing with you, I just don't understand why keep using a term that doesn't fully show the specifity of Black Americans and their difference with Africans.

Black and White are not terms that separate anything from Africa and Europe. They are catch all terms that directly refer to both locations.

And once again, Africa is not a monolith and a pretty massive and diverse place. Being "from Africa" when you really mean a village in Yoruba land is not the same as having ancestry that spans 3/4 the continent. Not hard to understand.

 

[Rhapscallion Démone]

This we know. But I think there's a confusion between how you got to the Americas (abduction) and your siuation once you got there (slavery) on one side, and your ethnicity on the other. The ethnicity didn't change due those external factors, you were still the same people coming over from Africa. And the same ethnicity of those immigrating now., etc...that happened over years. In that case I better understand the use of "African American" and the differences with Africans who are not descendants of slaves, because they do not have the mixing implied with "America"?

Question : would you say Busta Rhymes is an African-American?

You are correct the varying degrees of admixture and the unique culture/subcultures that came from the "Afram experience" are all taken into consideration when talking about the Afram ethnicity. Also if Busta is descended from the Aftican captives brought here then yes I consider him African American.

 

[JahFocus CS]

This we know. But I think there's a confusion between how you got to the Americas (abduction) and your siuation once you got there (slavery) on one side, and your ethnicity on the other. The ethnicity didn't change due those external factors, you were still the same people coming over from Africa. And the same ethnicity of those immigrating now.

What changed imo is that you created a specific culture in the new environment and under these specific circumstances. So ethnicity is the same, but culture is different.

Unless we consider all the mixing with Indians, whites, etc...that happened over years. In that case I better understand the use of "African American" and the differences with Africans who are not descendants of slaves, because they do not have the mixing implied with "America"?

Question : would you say Busta Rhymes is an African-American?

New Afrikans are also a mix of Africans from places as varied as Mali, Nigeria, Angola, and even Madagascar, not to mention different nations/tribes within the same regions in Africa. The average Nigerian immigrant, for example, is almost certainly not that admixed in recent history.

A big part of the reason why folks have been using "African-American" and even New Afrikan is because the vast majority of us cannot trace our lines straight to Africa or to a single place in Africa. So we've claimed the continent as the basis for our identity.

 

[mbewane]

There are multi-ethnic Africans of Mande/Bantu/Fula/etc descent along with non-African ancestry wrapped in one immigrating to America? I could have sworn most Africans coming over were of one or two nearby tribes

Not sure if understand your question

I don't think that Africans who were abducted to the Americans were not more (or less) multi-ethnic than current people immigrating...they got mixed (between themselves, with Indians, Whites, etc) in a new environment (America) thus progressively creating this new culture that is specific to America...
Maybe the real difference is that Black Americans are just more mixed than Africans?

 

[ultraflexed]

This was a question I was pondering the other day.

In all likelihood if I get married or have children it'll be with an AA woman. I already don't speak my people's language and have pretty much fully assimilated into western society. Sure, my kids will be able to point out somewhere on a map and say this is specifically where my ancestors came from...but they'll largely identify with America.

It's something I noticed with my nephews.

Sure there are African communities within the USA but it's a small drop of water in comparison. So at some point won't both communities eventually overlap?

They won't, but there kids will.
Slavery won't be apart of their ancestry like ours, that history will mean nothing to them

 

[JahFocus CS]

I have no problem seeing Black Americans as a stand-alone entity, that exactly what I'm saying : Black Americans are Americans that are Black. I don't see White Americans as Belgians, Danes, French, English, Italians, Hungarians, Italians, Spaniards, Germans, etc etc etc...I see them as White Americans, not as "European-Americans" : that makes little sense, since like you said it's dozens of ethnic groups roled in one. They have European descent (like Black Americans have African descent), but indeed time has passed, a specific history in a specific environment far removed from Africa has created a specific culture, we all know that.

Which why I don't understand why y'all use the term "African-American", when "Black American" makes more sense, according to this logic.

Well, we're not even Americans. We were stripped of our nationalities when our ancestors were enslaved and we still don't govern ourselves. We're not a self-determined people. So basically, we live under occupation.

 

[Poitier]

I don't think that Africans who were abducted to the Americans were not more (or less) multi-ethnic than current people immigrating...

And they were not African Americans. They were specific ethnic groups from Africa.

Are we talking about African Americans or are we talking about our African ancestors? Not the same thing.

 

[Frangala]

A lot of people need to stop with the myth that Africans who come here are rich as hell and upper class in the country. The recent migration of Africans to the US. A significant amount are not wealthy and have to play the DV Lottery (Diversity Immigrant Visa - Wikipedia) in order to get "papers" to get here. Even those who are somewhat educated and make it to the US don't get jobs in the fields that they studied or worked at back at home because their diplomas or qualifications don't translate and are not as valued as let say someone from India.

Go to some of the country's biggest African communities (i.e DC/Maryland/Virginia) area see how many educated Africans are driving cabs and doing menial work. So let's stop the whole "Coming to America" narrative of wealthy African immigrants coming to the States. Wealthy Africans often don't stay in America permanently instead the go back home since they are well connected and thrive off their connections at home and make more money than they could ever make in the US. The ones who stay in America permanently don't have anything to go back to hence are not wealthy.

 

[mbewane]

Black and White are not terms that separate anything from Africa and Europe. They are catch all terms that directly refer to both locations.

And once again, Africa is not a monolith and a pretty massive and diverse place. Being "from Africa" when you really mean a village in Yoruba land is not the same as having ancestry that spans 3/4 the continent. Not hard to understand.

Breh...I know damn well Africa is not a monolith lol come on...and since indeed it isn't a monolith, why use "African" American? That's as vague as you can get

You are correct the varying degrees of admixture and the unique culture/subcultures that came from the "Afram experience" are all taken into consideration when talking about the Afram ethnicity. Also if Busta is descended from the Aftican captives brought here then yes I consider him African American.

Yes I think the whole admixing thing is what really makes the specificity, that and the experience/new envrionment.

He's actually from Jamaica, but born and raised in the US.

New Afrikans are also a mix of Africans from places as varied as Mali, Nigeria, Angola, and even Madagascar, not to mention different nations/tribes within the same regions in Africa. The average Nigerian immigrant, for example, is almost certainly not that admixed in recent history.

A big part of the reason why folks have been using "African-American" and even New Afrikan is because the vast majority of us cannot trace our lines straight to Africa or to a single place in Africa. So we've claimed the continent as the basis for our identity.

SO "New Afrikans" another way of calling "African-Americans"?

I agree with all the post, like I answered to this other breh above you I think the real difference here is all the mixing that happened, and indeed the fact that you cannot trace where it is you come from. But it's interesting that some precisely want to distinguish themselves from Africa, while calling themselves "African American"...I see this is not your case though, while acknowledging the specific nature of Black Americans you use "New Afrikans"

 

[YaThreadFloppedB!]

Lol...Africans don't wanna pay for their sins but wanna benefit off the struggles of AAs and wanna call me a c00n...

LMAO fukk outta here...yall the biggest c00ns on the fukking planet...if anybody should be called a c00n...



Wanna try to lump me in with yall when it's convenient..but when we on those slave ships...yall they didn't come back and get us...

But when a nikka says reparations...yall start talking like White people...

Preach

 

[Poitier]

Breh...I know damn well Africa is not a monolith lol come on...and since indeed it isn't a monolith, why use "African" American? That's as vague as you can get

Thats why its the perfect descriptor for African Americans...our ancestry is too diverse and muddled that it is vague hence "African"

 

[mbewane]

And they were not African Americans. They were specific ethnic groups from Africa.

Are we talking about African Americans or are we talking about our African ancestors? Not the same thing.

I'm not sure anymore breh

Imma leave it at that

I have a big interest on identity and language so Interesting conversation though

 

[AlainLocke]

Preach

 

[JahFocus CS]

SO "New Afrikans" another way of calling "African-Americans"?

I agree with all the post, like I answered to this other breh above you I think the real difference here is all the mixing that happened, and indeed the fact that you cannot trace where it is you come from. But it's interesting that some precisely want to distinguish themselves from Africa, while calling themselves "African American"...I see this is not your case though, while acknowledging the specific nature of Black Americans you use "New Afrikans"

Indeed it is, going back to the 1960s with the efforts of the Republic of New Afrika movement and also taken up by the Malcolm X Grassroots Movement.

I definitely do not try to create any more distance than there already is between us and Africans (and I strongly disagree with those in this thread pushing that angle), I think that we in the diaspora need to reconnect with our roots as much as possible. Continental Africans also need to accept us more though. But yes, the differences between so-called AAs and Africans, aside from some cultural distance, is in the inability of most AAs to trace roots directly to Africa or to a single place in Africa, and in the mixing that occurred.

You're 100% correct that it doesn't make sense for someone who wants to establish AAs as very different from Africans to use the term "African-American"

 

[im_sleep]

Question : would you say Busta Rhymes is an African-American?

Nope. His folks are from Jamaica I'm pretty sure. Doesn't qualify even tho he grew up in the states.