As an almost day 1 fan of the 'Souls-Like' genre, Bloodborne is objectively the WORST 'souls-like' game of them all despite being a great game...

[Dallas' 4 Eva]

I mean, its just as inaccessible as dark souls is. You’re dropped in a medical clinic with no weapons and a huge werewolf is standing between you and the exit. That is extremely unconventional compared to the hand holdy AAA games on the market. Then they pretty much put a weapon in your hand and throw you in the middle of a angry mob of demon-men, giants, rabid dogs, giant crows, more werewolves, a surprise boss battle, etc.

Its the same formula different package. Bloodborne is more about speed and being aggressive, where dark souls is more about patience and timing. I honestly dont think one is any easier than the other. Theres a million ways to break a souls game, theres less ways to break bloodborne.

And you’re just not going to get a real “souls” experience in anything but a Miyazaki game. It’s just not possible to properly replicate.

Better to play games that have the essence of what makes souls games good, like hollowknight

This is due to the fact there are a million more ways to play Dark Souls than Bloodborne...

That is the point we are trying to make, y'all aren't looking past world design and shyt and not looking at it how we are. Dark Souls gives you options, Bloodborne doesn't. Bloodbornes actual gameplay loop is closer to a pure action game the only thing that matters really in Bloodborne is your weapon your armor doesn't do too much ofbshyt, whereas Dark Souls while it isn't light on the action elements, the action elements in the game are a lot more effected by your stats, the build you play as, and the equipment you wearing and how much you weigh.

 

[Gizmo_Duck]

Yeah, souls is more of an rpg but the stats aren’t the only thing that make a ‘souls’ game a souls game. It’s what makes dark/demon souls specifically what they are butt souls-like can borrow any of the defining mechanics and be categorized as such. Maze like interconnected level design, experience retrieval upon death,, the fundamental weighty ness of how they approach combat, the piecemeal way they deliver lore to you in chunks with items, the moody ambiance. …etc

 

[BobbyWojak]

nikka Dark Souls is a lot more RPG than Bloodborne which is more action oriented. You are still missing the fukking point we are BOTH trying to make.

We get the level design and difficulty are part of what makes a souls like, but one of these games is definitely a lot more RPG focused than the other which is action focused. It definitely has an effect on how you play and perceive the game. You literally cannot play Bloodborne like Dark Souls because Bloodborne is literally missing a lot of the mechanics you need to play it like Dark Souls. Dark Souls is an action RPG which is heavy on the RPG elements, Bloodborne is an action game which is light on RPG elements. Sekiro is an action game which the RPG elements are nearly non existent. Bloodborne and Sekiro play similar to each other in they are more focused on the action and the game kind of forces you to play that way. Dark Souls you have a lot more freedome to choose how you want to play the game, kinda similar to an Elder Scrolls or Fallout game, whereas Bloodborne and Sekiro have more in common with an action game like DMC or Ninja Gaiden.

Breh, I know the difference between "souls-like" and an actual dark souls game. The dude who started the thread is trying to argue that bloodborne isn't a "souls-like" game and belongs in a separate genre altogether. Yeah the build system is important to dark souls, but it's not the main element that makes a game "souls-like". It's the style gameplay, level design, and difficulty that makes a game "souls-like".

Nioh is souls-like, but it's not a clone of dark souls.

Exactly, in the early souls games you can struggle for a bit but eventually through magic, pyromancy, miracles and equipment ( you know, RPG elements! ) you could completely avoid combat and the action bit of 'action rpg' becomes redundant. You cannot do this in Bloodborne. You cannot do this in Sekiro. You cannot do this in Nioh and other soulslike games.

Some people consider this 'breaking the game' but that's up for the player to decide

 

[Gizmo_Duck]

souls games have become their own genre with its own sub genres.

I dont think most devs would ever attempt to go 1:1 of what dark souls is at this point. Everyone is trying to add their own spin to it, like how 2d fighters did in the 90’s.

You still got games like salt and sacrifice that play a lot like a souls games but just in another format. Indie scene is filled with souls clones they just dont always look like them off the bat.

I’d also say Mortal Shell is pretty much more darksouls than bloodborne or sekiro.

 

[BobbyWojak]

Better to play games that have the essence of what makes souls games good, like hollowknight

And off topic, Hollow Knight fukking stinks

Looks like shyt and plays like a fukking flash game


Dead Cells, Bloodstained and even janky ass Blasphemous are all superior

When I see see gameplay footage of Hollow knight I actually get angry at how bullshyt it looks.

 

[Dallas' 4 Eva]

Yeah, souls is more of an rpg.

This is my major point and has been the whole time. Dark Souls and Bloodborne are souls likes on a pure surface level. Once you dig deep their core aka their gameplay loop and how they want you to play the game, they are VERY different games. Almost comparing apples to oranges.

I don't even hate Bloodborne it is fun to play, but since I played Dark Souls 2 like @BobbyWojak has been saying, it had me very prepared for Bloodborne as a matter of fact it had me so prepared for Bloodborne I figured the game out before I left Central Yharnam and found the game pitifully easy after a certain point.

Dark Souls and Bloodborne share enough differences they should be classified as two different genres of game. They have some similarities, but they have enough differences where they need to be separated from each other.

Think Hades and Returnal. Hades is far closer to a Rogue-lite, whereas Returnal is closer to a Rogue-Like. They share a lot of similarities but they are still different which is why they are classified as such.

 

[Gizmo_Duck]

And off topic, Hollow Knight fukking stinks

Looks like shyt and plays like a fukking flash game


Dead Cells, Bloodstained and even janky ass Blasphemous are all superior

When I see see gameplay footage of Hollow knight I actually get angry at how bullshyt it looks.

Now you smoking that blue magic

 

[Gizmo_Duck]

Dark Souls and Bloodborne share enough differences they should be classified as two different genres of game.

Same genre, different games with different goals

Like you would never compare something like Tekken and smash bros but they are both fighters, they just play very differently.

 

[BobbyWojak]

Same genre, different games with different goals

This ultimately comes down to how fukked gaming genres are.

Bloodborne is an action game first, DS is equally a RPG and Action game.

It's one of these impossible art arguments, Wayne raps better than Pac but no one would ever say Wayne is a better rapper. It's too contextual.

 

[Dallas' 4 Eva]

I fell in love with the Souls games because they gave me challenging gameplay(something Elder Scrolls and Fallout didn't) and a lot of player choice as to how I wanted to play the game aka I literally made my character be what I wanted them to be(something Elder Scrolls and Fallout did). If I wanted to be a 2h wielding brute who was slow but hit like a fukking truck and could take a beating like a tank I could, a duel wielding assassin who was fast as shyt and focused on in and out fighting I could. How about a ranger who wielded a bow and had a sword and light shield for when the combat got close to him, I could. A sorcerer who wielded powerful spells that will clear out a whole room with one cast of a spell I could. The list goes on and on. Literally that is the number one thing I MISS about these games, I had a choice in what I wanted to be(whether it was ineffective or completely OP is besides the point the point was I had OPTIONS) and Bloodborne took that away from me in favor of making it more action based and streamlined. All these new games coming out are labeled as Souls likes, but are missing a huge key element as to what made Dark Souls, Dark Souls GAVE YOU OPTIONS. You can literally play it like an action game, or like an RPG, the choice was yours.

Steel Rising, Lies of P, and Thymesia should not be called Souls likes, they should be called Borne-Likes if anything because they are all more action based.

 

[Dallas' 4 Eva]

Same genre, different games with different goals

Like you would never compare something like Tekken and smash bros but they are both fighters, they just play very differently.

Same genre how? They are similar in design as far as world design and basic gameplay elements(Bonfires and Candles, Souls and Echoes, etc. Surface level shyt). But their actual gameplay is nearly completely different.

Elder Scrolls and Final Fantasy are both RPGs, but there is a reason one is classified as a western style RPG and one is classified as a Japanese style RPG. They have enough differences you have to break them down into sub genres, even if they are TECHNICALLY in the same genre.

 

[5n0man]

Exactly, in the early souls games you can struggle for a bit but eventually through magic, pyromancy, miracles and equipment ( you know, RPG elements! ) you could completely avoid combat and the action bit of 'action rpg' becomes redundant. You cannot do this in Bloodborne. You cannot do this in Sekiro. You cannot do this in Nioh and other soulslike games.

Some people consider this 'breaking the game' but that's up for the player to decide

Saying that dark souls has more variety than other souls-like like games is one thing, but to say anything other than dark souls is not "souls-like" is completely different.


No you can't do all that in bloodborne, sekiro, and nioh but those are all still souls-like games.

 

[5n0man]

This ultimately comes down to how fukked gaming genres are.

Bloodborne is an action game first, DS is equally a RPG and Action game.

It's one of these impossible art arguments, Wayne raps better than Pac but no one would ever say Wayne is a better rapper. It's too contextual.

Not everything needs to be broken down into meta sub categories breh.

Metroid and castlevania don't need to be clones of one another for people to consider them part of the same genre of games. You would never argue that metroid isn't a metroidvania game because it lacked the rpg elements and variety of castlevania.


This is an autistic ass argument OP is trying to make. It's like saying bacon and sausage pizza is a completely different type of food than pepperoni pizza.

 

[Dallas' 4 Eva]

Funny thing is Dark Souls is a Metroidvania game... I'd actually argue it is the best Metroidvania game ever actually. It shares a lot of similarities of world/map design and approach to the game as as a Metroidvania game, but no one ever puts it in that category even though it plays like what you would expect a 3d Castlevania game to play like.

That's why you have to categorize the games properly. Ok Dark Souls is an RPG focused Souls like, Bloodborne is an action focused Souls like. They have too many differences in their game play loop to act like they need to be categorized as the same game.

Telling me Thymesia is a Souls like, to buy it and find out it plays more like Bloodborne is disappointing because I was expecting something a little different.

 

[Dallas' 4 Eva]

Not everything needs to be broken down into meta sub categories breh.

Metroid and castlevania don't need to be clones of one another for people to consider them part of the same genre of games. You would never argue that metroid isn't a metroidvania game because it lacked the rpg elements and variety of castlevania.


This is an autistic ass argument OP is trying to make. It's like saying bacon and sausage pizza is a completely different type of food than pepperoni pizza.

Same type of food, but it would taste completely different. Some people wouldn't even fukk with a bacon and sausage pizza, some people don't like Pepperoni. To this day there are some people who love Bloodborne and hate Dark Souls and vice versa. I know people who love WRPGs and hate JRPGs and vice versa. Categorizing a game properly is important, just because you don't want to do the critical thinking which takes 15 seconds to figure it out doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.