Anyone Interested in Dissecting the Matrix Trilogy? (Spoilers)
- Thread starter ™BlackPearl The Empress™
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He was obviously manipulated into ever choice he made.
The Oracle sacrificed whatever life/status she had within the machine world and was on the run. Why do you think she was so hated by the other programs? She also personally risked her life and the life of the other machines which I am sure cared for.
She is the reason Neo is in love in the first place.
Neo was meant to die. You keep following the illusion that anything else would have happened.
He was a tool. He did EXACTLY what she had planned for him to do.
Example: I make a plan and you and your homies execute it then die. I'm alive and well.
You look like a hero but who is really winning?
No he did what he planned to do but what she knew he would do. Hence her being the oracle. The oracle never planned anything. She had a vision and saw why he was different (she says in part one he’s different from the others) and he did what she knew he’d do. The architect told her it was a gamble but she knew neo and knew his heart.
I don’t see any of this as her plan; she just had the vision to see the future. She’s a program just like the architect
Honestly I think you should read post #24 and then go rewatch the movie.
The point of the movie is that all aspects including "free will" was planned and controlled.
See I disagree with that. The one is another form of control, yes, but the one broke away from his programming because of choice. Because of free will. The “one” was never meant to sacrifice himself. The purpose was to restart the matrix and do this whole thing over and over again. The one would never die in that scenario, just be replaced.
In the scenario that neo did, however, he was sacrificed and the matrix wasn’t “reset” because for the first time since the war, there was peace between humans and the machines. Nothing was reset as much as it was put back together. That was a choice he made.
Neo and the oracle have that convo on the bench discussing choice and free will and it’s whers he learns she’s just another form of control. But she also tells him he does have a choice. He can either obey the “programming” or not. She’s doing what she’s supposed to do but it doesn’t mean he has to. And then when he’s faced with that choice, he does what he wants and goes against his function and the thing the one has always done.
I don’t see the movie as that nihilistic to say everything is control and free will is an illusion
this video from that thread made by @Manny ManhaTTan crossed all my Ts and dotted my i's
Film Theory: Neo isn't the "One" in the Matrix Trilogy
Didn’t watch video but I don’t think neo was the one because he just moves the machines one step closer to being beaten. He’s not the final Neo.
Again, I think you should go rewatch the movie. He was different because he was intended to be. If she had not intervened it would have gone the same way it normally had.
I’ve watched the movies several times. Know them like the back of my hand. I hear what you’re saying and I get it, I just disagree with that interpretation. I don’t see the oracle as intervening. She said she’s a control function. She’s there to serve a purpose. He made the choice. It’s cool if you think otherwise since the movies are based on philosophy and that in itself is made to be interpreted 50 different ways.
I’ve always seen it as neo had a thing to do and chose not to do it. She didn’t intend for him to be different. He just was. And he was ,at least according to the movie, because of love and trinity.
Artictect explains that it's all a farce clear as day and then basically tells her that her planned worked at the end of the movie.
As far as the Oracle, she clearly pushed them to be together which had not been done before.
She literally helped program the whole situation. And she was NOT clairvoyant she just had a great understanding of human psychology but she used their perception of her as "all knowing" to put ideas into their head ie "you're going to fall in love with the one" "you're going to find the one" etc. She even tells Neo "I told you what you needed to hear."
Idk how you can say she wasn't controlling the situation. She literally programmed him to break a pot, he breaks the pot and she uses that situation to gain his trust. She was playing the whole squad the whole time.
Could things have gone wrong? Of course, the Matrix had failed many times before but to say that it wasn't all planned by her as an ends to a means kinda misses the whole point of the story.
Again, if she didn't intervene the system would have continued same is usual. She is the differing factor and that is why she is the hero.
I don’t see her as pushing them together. Especially since she said we cannot see beyond the choices we’ve already made or don’t understand. She bet on him, she had faith he’d do what he did but she didn’t push him to do that or push them to be together. Which is why she told him “remember you don’t believe in all this fate crap.” He was going to do what he was going to do regardless.
I’m not saying she’s not important but to say she’s the hero of the whole trilogy or saga doesn’t ring true to me.
I think you're missing the point and downplaying the level of manipulation that was literally the point of the movie. But we can agree to disagree.
Because I think the manipulation only went but so far. I get the point. Just don’t agree with the extent of it. That’s all. I believe at a point, the manipulation ended and they were in uncharted territory
I get it. We can agree to disagree.
Devilinurear
Veteran
Not really she was part of the program. She was playing her role bit just went an extra step. She was more of an double agent. She is always meets The one and guides them. The marviogin was the one really hated by the other programs.