American-Liberians=/=African-American

Apollo Creed

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Thanks for explaining and the insight.

Well, if you know me on this forum -- then you know I am not here for it -- nor do I co-sign/approve of anyone calling/using "C00N" or "Bedwench" due to original definition, historical attachments and trauma that is attached to those terms. That's why me and @badtguy had words in another thread.

I don't think all Black people from anywhere -- are one way -- but since you do see the dynamics and types of Black Immigrants -- I am sure you understand why many Black Americans feel the way they do.

But, you are right -- no one should be calling/labeling people who are from a continent that word. It's not cool at all.

Africans/Others should also stop using the word(s) -- it has gotten out-of-hand. I blame fake historian/cult-leader/crowd-funding entrepreneur Tariq - but that's another thread.

The issue is the ones who are here for Capital and White Validation are far more vocal and visible than the ones who are supportive, kind and apart of both their tribal and Black American culture. And those are usually not opposed to Black Americans/DOS being self-interested for betterment and legacy.

Also, as someone else said in a prior thread -- Black Immigrants especially Nigerians need better online representation.

Cause when someone goes on these forums like Nairaland and other places online/YouTube -- they are going to just learn more about Africa in general and interact with people from the continent. As most Black Americans don't have Black immigrants/1&2 in their communities or schools. So, Black Americans end up seeing anti-Black American threads/comments -- that turns them from having a positive/non-opinion -- to shaping a negative/anti Black immigrant one. I now understand and see -- we are usually running into/across those Nigerians.

Black Americans needs to do a better as well -- me included. Black Americans are just super ready for people (anybody) to come at us -- so we tend to only attack when someone throws the first blow/diss. Or if they question us or uses the fake xenophobic diss when we say we choose to be focus on ourselves for the betterment/improvement of our communities/families.

But, we need you and other Black Immigrants/1&2Gen to support us and let others know by educating them why Black Americans/DOS should focus on ourselves at this time.

Not pushback and the fake shaming attempts -- under the guise of fighting "white supremacy," "we all Black," "cops see us all the same" and "being divisive" argument/narrative so many are trying to use.

I know we will get in a better space with each-other in time.

Once again with now knowing the context, c00n immigrants are loudest because they are trying to show they are worthy of white graces. This is not me excusing their behavior but more so me presenting the method to their madness.

The issue black people face globally is we have no institutions to punish people who go off code which is why they go buckwild (because they know nothing will happen to them).

In other races if you go off code they kill you or you are black balled from accessing the benefits associated with being that race or ethnicity.

Black folks have no form of punishing others because we are the poorest people on the planet with little to no institutions.

If we look behind the “showing out” c00ns we would then realize they are always amogst white people OR other c00ns.

When you see these shea butter immigrants they are amogst others like them or white people serving as their token black friend.
This shows us they are not trying to be amogst black people but more so serve as attack dogs of white supremacy to create the narrative that “black people are the biggest problem black people face.”

Black people IMO should be starting counter online movements. Hate the Alt right all you want but those clowns mobilize and for every “liberal” article out they have a counter article giving their perspective.

The Dr.Tommy Curry of Breaking brown episode was a beautiful example of what black people should be doing. They tore the “Black men are the white people of black society” angle apart with straight facts and no emotions. My only gripe with Yvettes show is she doesnt understand the full context behind how black immigration works because it is NOT the same as how it works for other countries. Im not asking her NOT to put AAs first, Im saying not understanding context leads to blanket statements which come off incorrectly.

Like I said in another thread, 200k Mexicans a year are issued Visas to america (on top of the illegal border crossers. 50k VISAS TOTAL for the ENTIRE continent of Africa are issued a year. If only 50k people from a continent where 60-70% of a billion people are living in poverty can come to America, best believe that creates a very different situation compared to any other country let alone continent.
 
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xoxodede

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Once again with now knowing the context, c00n immigrants are loudest because they are trying to show they are worthy of white graces. This is not me excusing their behavior but more so me presenting the method to their massive.

The issue black people face globally is we have no institutions to punish people who go off code which is why they go buckwild (because they know nothing will happen to them).

In other races if you go off code they kill you or you are black balled from accessing the benefits associated with being that race or ethnicity.

Black folks have no form of punishing others because we are the poorest people on the planet with little to no institutions.

If we look behind the “showing out” c00ns we would then realize they are always amogst white people OR other c00ns.

When you see these shea butter immigrants they are amogst others like them or white people serving as their token black friend.
This shows us they are not trying to be amogst black people but more so serve as attack dogs of white supremacy to create the narrative that “black people are the biggest problem black people face.”

Black people IMO should be starting counter online movements. Hate the Alt right all you want but those clowns mobilize and for every “liberal” article out they have a counter article giving their perspective.

The Dr.Tommy Curry of Breaking brown episode was a beautiful example of what black people should be doing. They tore the “Black men are the white people of black society” angle apart with straight facts and no emotions. My only gripe with Yvettes show is she doesnt understand the full context behind how black immigration works because it is NOT the same as how it works for other countries. Im not asking her NOT to put AAs first, Im saying not understanding context leads to blanket statements which come off incorrectly.

Like I said in another thread, 200k Mexicans a year are issued Visas to america (on top of the illegal border crossers. 50k VISAS TOTAL for the ENTIRE continent of Africa are issued a year. If only 50k people from a continent where 60-70% of a billion people are living in poverty can come to America, best believe that creates a very different situation compared to any other country let alone continent.

Very insightful!

You should start a thread on that - just informing those of us who don't know how it works. And the dynamics, mentality and experiences it creates.

I don't think it's those who are new immigrants or those who are getting those 50 visas.

It's more so than those who have became legal citizens -- and/or their children. Those have been here since their formative years -- if not most or born here and been here all of their lives.

I agree we should have counter movements -- but we have to get people to respect and support each other specific movements -- especially black/dos. People continue to act like it's non-existent, a shared one or invalid. Which is untrue and dishonest to say.

I actually can't stand yvettes voice - but I like her and her direct approach -- cause being nice and asking people to understand our stance has not and is not working.

That used to be my approach - now I am just clear, direct and unapologetic.

Last night on her show it was a
Haitian woman who called in using the same arguments/narrative I just mentioned to you in the other post. And it was all bad and seen as disrespectful.

I always cringe when people like her call -- cause it showcases how many don't get it - or respect/value black Americans -- and only strengthens the DOS movement.

I hope you start the thread -- of course -- in the "The Root" or "Higher Learning."
 

Apollo Creed

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Very insightful!

You should start a thread on that - just informing those of us who don't know how it works. And the dynamics, mentality and experiences it creates.

I don't think it's those who are new immigrants or those who are getting those 50 visas.

It's more so than those who have became legal citizens -- and/or their children. Those have been here since their formative years -- if not most or born here and been here all of their lives.

I agree we should have counter movements -- but we have to get people to respect and support each other specific movements -- especially black/dos. People continue to act like it's non-existent, a shared one or invalid. Which is untrue and dishonest to say.

I actually can't stand yvettes voice - but I like her and her direct approach -- cause being nice and asking people to understand our stance has not and is not working.

That used to be my approach - now I am just clear, direct and unapologetic.

Last night on her show it was a
Haitian woman who called in using the same arguments/narrative I just mentioned to you in the other post. And it was all bad and seen as disrespectful.

I always cringe when people like her call -- cause it showcases how many don't get it - or respect/value black Americans -- and only strengthens the DOS movement.

I hope you start the thread -- of course -- in the "The Root" or "Higher Learning."

You’ll notice recent immigrants are “cool” because many of them tend to be refugees verses the immigrants who came in the 60s-70s strictly for school OR they were educated and came for work. Knowing global black history is very important because it gives you context to things going on now.

Someone espacig civil war in Sudan, Liberia, or Sierre Leone (examples of the most recent conflicts) dont have time to come to a country and hate on anyone when their whole families were literally slaughtered. These people come from varied backgrounds compared to the people who came for work or school specifically (these types are pretty much being given crumbs by whites and dont want to “mess it up” so they will show they are worthy of the crumbs”).

The funny thing about Liberia is Liberian immigrants totaled to less than 2-500 people pre 1970 and about 1-2k before 1990 when the civil war happened and even then there were less than 100k refugees who went to the US. Many of the Liberians who came to america for education were going to HBCUs also, thats not to say there werent any who went to Ivy leagues.

And yeah I’ll start a thread maybe this weekend if I have time.
 

thewarrior05

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There is a huge misconception that African-Americans aka Black Americans who are DOS -- migrated to Liberia and caused all types of issues. But, that is simply not true.

Black Americans who were enslaved were NOT --- and in no large numbers in --- nor did they move to Liberia. It was "Free People of Color" -- another distinction/classification from Black people who were enslaved. Most were born free or became free in the early 1800's.

The bulk and majority of Black people there were not Freedman who went after slavery was abolished in 1865. Black Americans who were enslaved fiercely pushed back and said they were not interested in going to Liberia - or anywhere else outside of the US. They were 2-3 generations Americans at that point -- they knew nothing about Africa.

So, who went then?:

These people were successful "free people of color" -- another class at that time which was separate from Black people who were enslaved -- some of them also owned Black slaves. Some of them weren't even Black American - they immigrated to America by choice --and were "free" and wanted in on the Liberia action. They went to Liberia between the 1830's-1850's. Slavery wasn't abolished until 1865.


Although some freed American slaves did settle there, Liberia was actually founded by the American Colonization Society, a group of white Americans—including some slaveholders—that had what certainly can be described as mixed motives. In 1817, in Washington, D.C., the ACS established the new colony (on a tract of land in West Africa purchased from local tribes) in hopes that slaves, once emancipated, would move there. The society preferred this option to the alternative: a growing number of free black Americans demanding rights, jobs, and resources at home.

When the first settlers were relocated to Liberia in 1822, the plan drew immediate criticism on several fronts. Many leaders in the black community publicly attacked it, asking why free blacks should have to emigrate from the country where they, their parents, and even their grandparents were born. Meanwhile, slave owners in the South vigorously denounced the plan as an assault on their slave economy.

Abolitionist resistance to colonization grew steadily. In 1832, as the ACS began to send agents to England to raise funds for what they touted as a benevolent plan, William Lloyd Garrison revved up the opposition with a 236-page book on the evils of colonization and sent abolitionists to England to track down and counter ACS supporters.

But the scheme had some fans. Slave states like Maryland and Virginia were already home to a significant number of free blacks, and whites there—still reeling from Nat Turner's 1831 rebellion, which emancipated slaves had a hand in—formed local colonization societies. Thus encouraged, Maryland legislators passed a law in 1832 that required any slave freed after that date to leave the state and specifically offered passage to a part of Liberia administered by the Maryland State Colonization Society. However, enforcement provisions lacked teeth, and many Marylanders forgot their antipathy to free blacks when they needed extra hands at harvest time. There is no evidence that any freed African-American was forcibly sent to Liberia from Maryland or anywhere else.​

Source
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Each year the nation's slave population rose by 50,000, but in 1830, the American Colonization Society persuaded just 259 free blacks to migrate to Liberia, bringing the total number of blacks colonized in Africa to just 1,400. Digital History

-----

Besides Clay, the attendees included James Monroe, Bushrod Washington
(nephew of George Washington), Daniel Webster, Andrew Jackson and Francis Scott Key, to name just a few of the prominent people involved. The importance of many of these men in the history of Liberia cannot be overstated. In fact, back in grade school, I always thought they included Jehudi Ashmun (who became the first ruler of the new African settlement), Thomas Buchanan and Robert Harper were all black people. I later learned that not only they, but also many of the names of places along the Liberian Coast, had their source in a white America: Maryland, Virginia, Greenville, Georgia, Clay-Ashland, Robert G. Harper City, Thomas Buchanan, an of course the capital of Monrovia, named after American president James Monroe.

Among all the white men who eventually held power in Liberia, Thomas Buchanan, brother of U.S. president James Buchanan, notoriously stand out. He favored the removal of the Negroes "not only from slavery but from the visible American scene...to a faraway place selected as the circumstances of the time should render most proper, and he actually escorted some of those freed men to Liberia, where he later served as governor of Grand Bassa County. In 1847, when Professor Simon Greenleaf of Harvard University finished writing the Liberian constitution, it was Mr.Buchanan who volunteered to return to America so that he might hand-deliver the Constitution back to the colony.

Our submission was economic as well. In 1926, the Liberian government leased 1.3 million acres of land for 99 years at six cents per acre to the Firestone Rubber Company. Later, during World War II, when the cost of raw rubber from Latin America was $2.60 a pound, the U.S. government negotiated the purchase of the entire crop of Liberian raw rubber for 26 cents a pound. In one year, the U.S. government saved 10 to 15 times more than all it's aid-in loans and grants-to the Liberian government from the year of 1847 the colony was founded up to 1945.

Source

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Source: Between Slavery and Freedom: Free People of Color in America From Settlement





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Source: America’s Forgotten Caste: Free Blacks in Antebellum Virginia and North Carolina






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Source: The History of Black Business in America


To learn more check out:
An African Republic: Black and White Virginians in the Making of Liberia
African-American Business Leaders and Entrepreneurs
Very insightful!

You should start a thread on that - just informing those of us who don't know how it works. And the dynamics, mentality and experiences it creates.

I don't think it's those who are new immigrants or those who are getting those 50 visas.

It's more so than those who have became legal citizens -- and/or their children. Those have been here since their formative years -- if not most or born here and been here all of their lives.

I agree we should have counter movements -- but we have to get people to respect and support each other specific movements -- especially black/dos. People continue to act like it's non-existent, a shared one or invalid. Which is untrue and dishonest to say.

I actually can't stand yvettes voice - but I like her and her direct approach -- cause being nice and asking people to understand our stance has not and is not working.

That used to be my approach - now I am just clear, direct and unapologetic.

Last night on her show it was a
Haitian woman who called in using the same arguments/narrative I just mentioned to you in the other post. And it was all bad and seen as disrespectful.

I always cringe when people like her call -- cause it showcases how many don't get it - or respect/value black Americans -- and only strengthens the DOS movement.

I hope you start the thread -- of course -- in the "The Root" or "Higher Learning."
whats up dede u dont know me no more
 

Black Haven

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@xoxodede are you saying that the blacks who were slave descendants prior to reconstruction and the ACW are not apart of the general AA identity?
 

xoxodede

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@xoxodede are you saying that the blacks who were slave descendants prior to reconstruction and the ACW are not apart of the general AA identity?

I am saying that those with the classification on "free people of color" many times were mulattos (many could pass as white) who were not classified as Black/Negro and did not classify themselves as Black nor did they want anything to do with Black people. Many times enslaving Black people - just like their white fathers.

Also that the Free People of Color who went to Liberia went 20-30 years before slavery ended in the USA. The bulk/majority of Free People of Color went to Liberia did so in the 1830-1850's -- EP was 1865. The majority of the Free People of Color who went to Liberia were successful and also owned Black people at one time
 

Black Haven

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I am saying that those with the classification on "free people of color" many times were mulattos (many could pass as white) who were not classified as Black/Negro and did not classify themselves as Black nor did they want anything to do with Black people. Many times enslaving Black people - just like their white fathers.

Also that the Free People of Color who went to Liberia went 20-30 years before slavery ended in the USA. The bulk/majority of Free People of Color went to Liberia did so in the 1830-1850's -- EP was 1865. The majority of the Free People of Color who went to Liberia were successful and also owned Black people at one time
Im not sure but, I think you're trying to make the case for two separate AA groups who have two separate heritages and experiences in America. Is that what you're trying to say?
 

IllmaticDelta

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Im almost done with the book "Servants of Allah" and the other claims most free blacks OPPOSED resettling in Africa because they belived it would make slavery in America more secure and the viewed resettling Africa as a racist theme by whites.

that and that they were true americans
 

xoxodede

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you could be an unmixed/dark looking free person of color and/or mixed/white looking slave

I agree. You can also be "mulatto" aka mixed -- and be brown or of a darker hue.

I know my use of "Free People of Color" is confusing and the issue in this thread. Here are my points:
  • In 1860, it was 4.4 Million Black people in the U.S. Out of that 4.4 Million --- 3,953,761 Black people were enslaved --- and 488,070 free Blacks / "Free People of Color" (note: see "Free People of Color" type breakdown in next post). The 488,070 free Black people were composed of 200,112 in the North and 287,958 in the slave-owning states of the South.
  • The "Free People of Color" who went to Liberia - the bulk of them went to Liberia between 1830-1850 -- 20-35 years before slavery ended via the ACW/EP.
  • The majority of the "Free People of Color" who went to Liberia were from Virginia and Maryland and making them the descendants of the "Atlantic Creoles." The other free people of color sprinkled in were from the North - Philadelphia (ended slavery in 1780) and New York (between 1799 - 1827). Only 309 Louisiana "Free People of Color/Creoles went to Liberia between 1821-1860. Source(s): 1, 2 & 3
  • I's estimated that only 13K-15K settled in Liberia.
  • The 3.9+ million black people enslaved in 1860 and then freed in 1865 - did not go --- nor did they want to go to Liberia.
With that being said, most of the Black Americans (DOS) here in America today are not the descendants of those who went to Liberia. I say this because...

1) the majority of the men and women who went to Liberia went in the early 1800's - most DOS ancestors were enslaved during that time and up until 1865 -- and did not have any "free" anything in their tree.

2) the men and women that went to Liberia were not legally classified nor saw themselves as "black/negro" -- and some even enslaved black people. The bulk of them were descendants of Atlantic Creoles / Colonial African Indentured Servants or the Free People of Color in the Northeast.

3) The 13K-15K who went to Liberia came from Virginia, Maryland, and the Northeast U.S. - leaving out large slave populations (and internal slave trading ports) like Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, South Carolina and Louisiana - as well many others slave-states with large enslavement numbers.

All and all, I don't even have an issue with Liberia - I just noticed while researching a while back that most of the people who went were not classified as "Black" nor ever enslaved. Also, that they went when most of DOS ancestors were still enslaved.

The reason I don't claim them as "Black Americans/AA" - because most didn't claim themselves as "Black" or "Negro."

They used the AA or "Free People of Color" title when it was beneficial and/or because they had too. But, they were in another class/category/not enslaved - and like some others - many did not want to be labeled "Black." Many who went to Liberia even enslaved large numbers of Black people who were classified as "black/negro." They are not my people.
 
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xoxodede

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"Free People of Color" Descriptions/Types in Colonial and Antebellum North and South

"Free Blacks" or "Free Negros:" (Classified legally as "Negro"/"Black")

In United States history, a free Negro or free black was the legal status, in the geographic area of the United States, of blacks who were not slaves. Those who were legally free and visibly of ethnic African descent.​

Atlantic Creole / Colonial African Indentured Servants (Not Classified As Negro/Black) - They or their descendants were the bulk of the FPOC who went to Liberia.

Atlantic Creole is a term used in North America to describe the Charter Generation of slaves during the European colonization of the Americas before 1660. These slaves had cultural roots in Africa, Europe and sometimes the Caribbean. They were of mixed race, primarily descended from European fathers and African mothers. Some had lived and worked in Europe or the Caribbean before coming (or being transported) to North America. Source

Colonial African Indentured Servants
Slavery in Virginia dates to 1619,[1] soon after the founding of Virginia as an English colony by the London Virginia Company. The company established a headright system to encourage colonists to transport indentured servants to the colony for labor; they received a certain amount of land for people whose passage they paid to Virginia.[2]

Africans first appeared in Virginia in 1619, brought by English privateers from a Spanish slave ship they had intercepted. As the Africans were baptized Christians, they were treated as indentured servants. Some laws regarding slavery of Africans were passed in the seventeenth century and codified into Virginia's first slave code in 1705.[3] Among laws affecting slaves was one of 1662, which said that children born in the colony would take the social status of their mothers, regardless of who their fathers were. This was in contrast to English common law of the time, and resulted in numerous generations of enslaved mixed-race children and adults, some of whom were majority white. Among the most notable were Sally Hemings and her siblings, fathered by planter John Wayles, and her four surviving children by Thomas Jefferson. Source

"Free People of Color" or Louisiana Creoles or gens de couleur libres (Not Classified As Negro/Black)

The term free people of color (French: gens de couleur libres), in the context of the history of slavery in the Americas, at first specifically referred to people of mixed African and European descent who were not enslaved. The term was especially used in the French colonies, including La Louisiane and settlements on Caribbean islands, such as Saint-Domingue (Haiti), Guadeloupe, and Martinique. Freed African slaves were included in the term affranchis, but historically they were considered as distinct from the free people of color. In these territories and major cities, particularly New Orleans, and those cities held by the Spanish, a substantial third class of primarily mixed-race, free people developed.
Mulatto/Biracial/Mixed / "Free People of Color:" (Not Classified As Negro/Black)

Offspring of Southern slaver owners / "Masters" Children (claimed/low-key claimed) - who classified themselves as "Mulatto" and sometimes "White." Like the Atlantic Creoles - many went on to enslave other Black people and were a different classification. As many did not see themselves as "Black" and often went on to marry other Mixed/Mulatto Free People of Color (light) or even married White to breed out any African / slave ancestry.​

  • Confederate defenders say that hundreds of Black people owned slaves. This is incorrect. As of 1830, 474 wealthy biracial families of the South Carolina elite owned 2,794 slaves (about one South Carolina slave in a hundred), but they were not considered socially “Black.” Similarly, in 1830, 967 families of the French-culture Gulf coast gens de couleur libre owned 4,382 slaves (about one Louisiana slave in twenty-five). Seen another way, of the 1,834 Colored Creole households in 1839 New Orleans, 752 of them (41 percent) owned at least one slave. Again however, those families were not considered socially “Black” (a term applied back then only to people of unmixed African appearance).
 
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