American-Liberians=/=African-American

[IllmaticDelta]

Like I said before Americo Liberians are a ethnic group with ancestry of free blacks and former slaves from the new world.

What people do in casual convo when it comes to mispeaking is irrelevant and if you arent going to correct them when you speak to them thats on you.

If you are saying there are authoritative figures making a claim then thats another story but even then saying that AAs and Americos may have a common ancestor is one thing, saying AAs = Americo Liberians (which the title of the thread is even with it incorrectly saying “American Liberian” which is not a real term) is a totally different thing.

correct....most articles I've seen paint americo-liberians as 100% afram emigrant stock w/o any mention that there are Americo-Liberians of West Indian and continental African stock

 

[Apollo Creed]

Now if we want to have a REAL discussion on the whole “Americo Liberians were c00ns” argument.

One could argue that WHILE their (or at least a segment of their) Ancestors were Black Descendants of American Slavery the LEGAL STATUS / or legal designation may have played a factor of how they viewed black life as a whole.

If there is documented history of examples of “free people of color” viewing enslaved blacks in America as lesser than them then we can not be surprised they viewed the indiginous tribes as lesser than them.

 

[Apollo Creed]

correct....most articles I've seen paint americo-liberians as 100% afram emigrant stock w/o any mention that there are Americo-Liberians of West Indian and continental African stock

I mentioned earlier this may be due to the fact that the ACS was an american organization so we are seeing the results of lazy scholarship (people making the assumpton something MUST be due to having a fact they may show something COULD be).

This is why it is dangerous to speak in absolutes.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Now if we want to have a REAL discussion on the whole “Americo Liberians were c00ns” argument.

One could argue that WHILE their (or at least a segment of their) Ancestors were Black Descendants of American Slavery the LEGAL STATUS / or legal designation may have played a factor of how they viewed black life as a whole.

If there is documented history of examples of “free people of color” viewing enslaved blacks in America as lesser than them then we can not be surprised they viewed the indiginous tribes as lesser than them.

This is more my point, more than them not being "true" Aframs. Being free an afroeuropean played a role in how they saw things vs similar types of aframs who lived through the later struggles of reconstruction and jim crow of later era, Afram history.

 

[badtguy]

some/many of the earliest aframs who went to liberia were free and from maryland


Republic of Maryland - Wikipedia

That's actually pretty good that you brought that up because the Jackson family in Lagos Nigeria, originated from John Jackson who was an ex slave from Fredrick County Maryland.

 

[Apollo Creed]

This is more my point, more than them not being "true" Aframs. Being free an afroeuropean played a role in how they saw things vs similar types of aframs who lived through the later struggles of reconstruction and jim crow of later era, Afram history.

Of course. Thats why I said anyone using the term AA to describe them is mispeaking OR they have an alternative motive which even I wont deny (i.e the example of a Nigerian person speaking on Liberia to throw shade at AAs).

My whole thing is if we are going to discuss something then lets be specific and clear with the words we use AND be up front with the motives behind discussion.

If this thread is supposed to be some “AA fight back” thread thats cool but dont include me in it as if I am making the claims. I have no problem giving input but I do have a probably with the hidden agendas threads like these have and of course nobody will ever admit that but thats on them.

 

[xoxodede]

Now if we want to have a REAL discussion on the whole “Americo Liberians were c00ns” argument.

One could argue that WHILE their (or at least a segment of their) Ancestors were Black Descendants of American Slavery the LEGAL STATUS / or legal designation may have played a factor of how they viewed black life as a whole.

If there is documented history of examples of “free people of color” viewing enslaved blacks in America as lesser than them then we can not be surprised they viewed the indiginous tribes as lesser than them.

They did. It was those Free People of Color (Mixed/Mulatto)-- then Black People who were free then the Natives. I linked some examples in earlier post.

I personally know a few Liberians. And I have nothing but good things to say.

One of my college ex's who is still a longtime friend is one. He was born in Monrovia and his family of 12 migrated to Georgia when he was a child -- and they are some of sweetest, welcoming and most kindest people I know. To this day, they still invite me over on holidays/family events --and stay trying to get us back together.

I didn't even know they were Liberian until years later - cause they didn't act like my other friends whose are Sudanese, West Indian and Nigerian(half) -- and other Black immigrants I personally know and have spent time with.

So, I have to agree that they have very much in common with Black Americans. My thing is I think we all need to educate people when we hear things that are incorrect or wrong.

 

[Apollo Creed]

They did. It was those Free People of Color (Mixed/Mulatto)-- then Black People who were free then the Natives. I linked some examples in earlier post.

I personally know a few Liberians. And I have nothing but good things to say.

One of my college ex's who is still a longtime friend is one. He was born in Monrovia and his family of 12 migrated to Georgia when he was a child -- and they are some of sweetest, welcoming and most kindest people I know. To this day, they still invite me over on holidays/family events --and stay trying to get us back together.

I didn't even know they were Liberian until years later - cause they didn't act like my other friends whose are Sudanese, West Indian and Nigerian(half) -- and other Black immigrants I personally know and have spent time with.

So, I have to agree that they have very much in common with Black Americans. My thing is I think we all need to educate people when we hear things that are incorrect or wrong.

Me having Liberian parents I think my perspective on Black America varies from the typical first generation American. This is why I emphasive we have to be specific when we talk about immigrant c00ns. Because those who do put black first arent being let into America unless they are a refugee or something.

Due to the AA influence in Liberia, Actually Liberians look at AAs as cousins because there have always been ties compared to other countries colonized by other nations thus they have no connection to AAs and get here and look at them as “others”.

The thing is until the civil war Liberians had no reason to be in America (due to it being a stable nation) and even then Liberia only has 4 million people compared to Nigeria which has 150 million so you simply rarely see Liberians in America and if you do you “dont know”.

Usually the people you see using Liberia to shade AAs dont even have liberian ancestry

 

[badtguy]

Me having Liberian parents I think my perspective on Black America varies from the typical first generation American. This is why I emphasive we have to be specific when we talk about immigrant c00ns. Because those who do put black first arent being let into America unless they are a refugee or something.

Due to the AA influence in Liberia, Actually Liberians look at AAs as cousins because there have always been ties compared to other countries colonized by other nations thus they have no connection to AAs and get here and look at them as “others”.

The thing is until the civil war Liberians had no reason to be in America (due to it being a stable nation) and even then Liberia only has 4 million people compared to Nigeria which has 150 million so you simply rarely see Liberians in America and if you do you “dont know”.

Usually the people you see using Liberia to shade AAs dont even have liberian ancestry

I was actually gonna comment that those tweets were from indigenous Nigerians who don't have any familiarity with Liberia or Liberians. Most don't even know what an Americo Liberian is they don't even know what a creole is. Heck they don't even know about "Nigerian" History. In their tribe, outside their tribe. Most cannot even tell you what their grandfathers name is.

 

[Apollo Creed]

I was actually gonna comment that those tweets were from indigenous Nigerians who don't have any familiarity with Liberia or Liberians. Most don't even know what an Americo Liberian is they don't even know what a creole is. Heck they don't even know about "Nigerian" History. In their tribe, outside their tribe. Most cannot even tell you what their grandfathers name is.

Exactly. AAs are not wrong that a large number of immigrants or c00ns, the issue is they dont understand the context of why.

They dont understand how Visa lottery.

They dont see that c00n immigrants DONT LIVE AROUND BLACK PEOPLE.

Most of the Immigrants (who are overwhelmingly Nigerian, no knock on Nigeria but the largest number of visas I believe go to them or Ethiopia) who are spearheading this new “woke” campagian are black people who grew up around whites thus they were token blacks their entire life. Its usually around college where they have their first racist experience in which now they feel betrayed and thus scramble to find their black identity. From this they then try to convince white people they are worthy of “sitting at the table”.

This is the case for black people of all ethnic backgrounds. When you grow up around whites you feel disconnected from black people and when you finally face a racial incident they either become Super Militant (i.e Kapernick) or a parody of black militancy (i.e Issa rae).

 

[xoxodede]

Me having Liberian parents I think my perspective on Black America varies from the typical first generation American. This is why I emphasive we have to be specific when we talk about immigrant c00ns. Because those who do put black first arent being let into America unless they are a refugee or something.

Due to the AA influence in Liberia, Actually Liberians look at AAs as cousins because there have always been ties compared to other countries colonized by other nations thus they have no connection to AAs and get here and look at them as “others”.

The thing is until the civil war Liberians had no reason to be in America (due to it being a stable nation) and even then Liberia only has 4 million people compared to Nigeria which has 150 million so you simply rarely see Liberians in America and if you do you “dont know”.

Usually the people you see using Liberia to shade AAs dont even have liberian ancestry

That's unfortunate.

I know I am very pro-Black American here on The Coli -- or as they say #AAgang -- but I haven't had any bad offline experiences with Black immigrants.

I have friends who I care about very much who are Sudanese, West Indian/Nigerian (one of best friends is WI/Nigerian) and of course Liberia -- all male though - they all went to Morehouse. And they came from upper middle class Black immigrant families - Doctor and African Diplomat and Two College Professors.

My position majorly comes from being a Black American/DOS history / genealogy enthusiast -- and seeing data, proof and examples of the state of Black America/DOS. Knowing all that -- I want DOS to win and have some major progression in our communities. Our schools are closing at high rates and we are unemployed and lagging behind all.

Just saying, to all Black Immigrants/1&2Gen -- it's nothing personal nor anti-Black immigrant.

But, I also be lying if I said via ONLINE learning things that is/was taught by Black immigrant parents -- and the attitudes many have/believe about Black Americans has sadly also influenced my opinion on the matter.

Hopefully, the way we view each-other changes -- and learn and respect each others history, honor each other's achievements -- and stop the mess.

I also hope Black immigrants finally get and respect what Black Americans/DOS are saying in terms of being self-interested -- and our reasons for doing so.

As it's not divisive -- it's something we desperately need for betterment -- and honoring our ancestors legacy here in America. Us being in a better position, will only be beneficial to Black immigrants in the long run.

 

[xoxodede]

I was actually gonna comment that those tweets were from indigenous Nigerians who don't have any familiarity with Liberia or Liberians. Most don't even know what an Americo Liberian is they don't even know what a creole is. Heck they don't even know about "Nigerian" History. In their tribe, outside their tribe. Most cannot even tell you what their grandfathers name is.

Then why do they come at us like we don't know our ancestors and our history? Many of us do know our Great Grandparents to 3rd Great Grandparents -- if not on both sides -- at least one side.

Is it because they know their "tribe" and country of origin? And what's up with them acting like that?

 

[Apollo Creed]

That's unfortunate.

I know I am very pro-Black American here on The Coli -- or as they say #AAgang -- but I haven't had any bad offline experiences with Black immigrants.

I have friends who I care about very much Sudanese, West Indian/Nigerian (one of bestfriends is WI/Nigerian) and of course Liberia -- all male though - they all went to Morehouse. And they came from upper middle class Black immigrant families - Doctor and African Diplomat and Two College Professors.

My position majorly comes from being a Black American/DOS history / genealogy enthusiast -- and seeing data, proof and examples of the state of Black America/DOS. Knowing all that -- I want DOS to win and have some major progression in our communities. Our schools are closing at high rates and we are unemployed and lagging behind all.

Just saying, to all Black Immigrants/1&2Gen -- it's nothing personal nor anti-Black immigrant.

But, I also be lying if I said via ONLINE learning things that is/was taught by Black immigrant parents -- and the attitudes many have/believe about Black Americans has sadly also influenced my opinion on the matter.

Hopefully, the way we view each-other changes -- and learn and respect each others history, honor each other's achievements -- and stop the mess.

I also hope Black immigrants finally get and respect what Black Americans/DOS are saying in terms of being self-interested -- and our reasons for doing so.

As it's not divisive -- it's something we desperately need for betterment -- and honoring our ancestors legacy here in America. Us being in a better position, will only be beneficial to Black immigrants in the long run.

Of course. I would say thought that the immigrants who do rock with AAs already show love. Its the c00ns that are an issue but the c00ns are rarely around other black people in general. Same goes for AA c00ns.

Like I said before the New Wave “shea butter” c00n that tend to be first gen Nigerian women or another immigrant ethnix grouo is a valid issue being that they hide amongst other blacks. My point on that issue is that these are blacks who never grew up around blacks (and if they do it is often other black bougie types who tend fo be c00ns too) vs them being c00ns because they are immigrants. THIS is what i am arguing but people are taking it as being combatative.

As a first gen immigrant Im providing insight to how these types think but people are taking it as being Anti AA when in reality their own fellow immigrants dont rock with them hence why they put on a parody of what they think being black is.

Like I say in other threads, cats gotta chill with the “Afric00n” stuff because that implies all Africans are c00n. When we talk about Charles Barkley we dont say “african americ00ns are at it again”.

I have no bias on ethnic backgrounds a c00n is a c00n and c00ns are dangerous period.

But if we are going to deal with this we have to dig deep and analyze the root cause to things and not just dismiss someone as being something because “all people from that group is like that”, thats straight White supremacist rhetoric.

 

[Apollo Creed]

Then why do they come at us like we don't know our ancestors and our history? Many of us do know our Great Grandparents to 3rd Great Grandparents -- if not on both sides -- at least one side.

Is it because they know their "tribe" and country of origin? And what's up with them acting like that?

So first you have to understand that these types are in America to gain access to white capital. These people do this because they seek white acceptance thus they are trying to prove “im not like these other nikkas Im a good black person”.

You will never find an immigrant that is NOT seeking white acceptance that does this.

You have two types of immigrants, those who want the “american dream” and others who are just trying to make money by any means possible to support family and such.

The “american dream” immigrants are usally the c00ns who shyt on AAs AND THEN go back to their homelands and stunt on the people there and brag about how much better they are than the locals.

In places like Liberia this is why George weah won because people were tired of so called “educated” liberians stealing the nationa money and going to the US or UK to live lavishly.

 

[xoxodede]

Of course. I would say thought that the immigrants who do rock with AAs already show love. Its the c00ns that are an issue but the c00ns are rarely around other black people in general. Same goes for AA c00ns.

Like I said before the New Wave “shea butter” c00n that tend to be first gen Nigerian women or another immigrant ethnix grouo is a valid issue being that they hide amongst other blacks. My point on that issue is that these are blacks who never grew up around blacks (and if they do it is often other black bougie types who tend fo be c00ns too) vs them being c00ns because they are immigrants. THIS is what i am arguing but people are taking it as being combatative.

As a first gen immigrant Im providing insight to how these types think but people are taking it as being Anti AA when in reality their own fellow immigrants dont rock with them hence why they put on a parody of what they think being black is.

Like I say in other threads, cats gotta chill with the “Afric00n” stuff because that implies all Africans are c00n. When we talk about Charles Barkley we dont say “african americ00ns are at it again”.

I have no bias on ethnic backgrounds a c00n is a c00n and c00ns are dangerous period.

But if we are going to deal with this we have to dig deep and analyze the root cause to things and not just dismiss someone as being something because “all people from that group is like that”, thats straight White supremacist rhetoric.

Thanks for explaining and the insight.

Well, if you know me on this forum -- then you know I am not here for it -- nor do I co-sign/approve of anyone calling/using "C00N" or "Bedwench" due to original definition, historical attachments and trauma that is attached to those terms. That's why me and @badtguy had words in another thread.

I don't think all Black people from anywhere -- are one way -- but since you do see the dynamics and types of Black Immigrants -- I am sure you understand why many Black Americans feel the way they do.

But, you are right -- no one should be calling/labeling people who are from a continent that word. It's not cool at all.

Africans/Others should also stop using the word(s) -- it has gotten out-of-hand. I blame fake historian/cult-leader/crowd-funding entrepreneur Tariq - but that's another thread.

The issue is the ones who are here for Capital and White Validation are far more vocal and visible than the ones who are supportive, kind and apart of both their tribal and Black American culture. And they are usually not opposed to Black Americans/DOS being self-interested for betterment and legacy.

Also, as someone else said in a prior thread -- Black Immigrants especially Nigerians need better online representation.

Cause when someone goes on these forums like Nairaland and other places online/YouTube -- they are going to just learn more about Africa in general and interact with people from the continent. As most Black Americans don't have Black immigrants/1&2 in their communities or schools. So, Black Americans end up seeing anti-Black American threads/comments -- that turns them from having a positive/non-opinion -- to shaping a negative/anti Black immigrant one. I now understand and see -- we are usually running into/across those Nigerians.

Black Americans need to do a better as well -- me included. Black Americans are just super ready for people (anybody) to come at us -- so we tend to only attack when someone throws the first blow/diss. Or if they question us or uses the fake xenophobic diss when we say we choose to be focused on ourselves for the betterment/improvement of our communities/families.

But, we need you and other Black Immigrants/1&2Gen to support us and let others know by educating them why Black Americans/DOS should focus on ourselves at this time.

Not pushback and the fake shaming attempts -- under the guise of fighting "white supremacy," "we all Black," "cops see us all the same" and the "being divisive" argument/narrative so many are trying to use.

I know we will get in a better space with each-other in time.