mastermind
Rest In Power Kobe
Is this serious? The US is extremely aggressive around the world. For some reason, Biden is getting froggy in the South China Sea.
America is ultimately going to run into the arms of fascism
- Thread starter Hood Critic
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Is Trump a fascist? 8 experts weigh in.
Is Trump a fascist? 8 experts weigh in.
Call him a kleptocrat, an oligarch, a xenophobe, a racist, even an authoritarian. But he doesn’t quite fit the definition of a fascist.
Roger Griffin, emeritus professor in modern history, Oxford Brookes University
His relationship to democracy, I would really insist, is the key to answering whether he’s a fascist or not. Even in four years of incoherent and inconsistent tweets, he’s never actually done a Putin and tried to make himself a permanent president, let alone suggest any coherent plan for overthrowing the constitutional system. And I don’t even think that’s in his mind. He is an exploiter, he’s a freeloader. He’s a wheeler and dealer. And that is not the same as an ideologue.
So he’s absolutely not a fascist. He does not pose a challenge to constitutional democracy. He certainly poses a great challenge to liberalism and liberal democracy. And I think real favor will be served by journalists who, instead of seeing liberal democracy as a single entity, see it as a binomial. Democracy can exist without liberalism.
If I was doing this as a bottom line in some debate, I’d say that Trump is not a fascist, but what he is quite consistently is an illiberal democrat. He is a democrat to the extent that he’s used democratic processes to be where he is, which he doesn’t radically challenge. He obviously plays fast and loose, like any wheeler dealer, with things like the Supreme Court, who he gets in, etc. He doesn’t care about the rules, but the core system he doesn’t want to change, because he’s somebody who’s profited by that system.
Basically, I think it matters whether we call Trump fascist or not fascist, not academically or intellectually, but because it’s a red herring — it actually diverts attention from where we should be doing the critique. If all our intellectual energies are, like Don Quixote, jousting with windmills and fascism, instead of actually jousting with the real enemies of democracy, and using our energies to avert the climate crisis, which is going to engulf us all, if we’re not careful, then we’re wasting our time.
By not calling him fascist, and concentrating on the way he perverts democracy, we see Trump in a different context. We don’t see him as Hitler or Mussolini. We see him in a different rogues’ gallery. And the rogues’ gallery is made up of a whole load of dictators throughout history, including Putin and Erdogan and Orbán and Assad today, who have abused constitutionalism and democracy to rationalize their abuse of power and their crimes against humanity.
I agree with this take.
Is Trump a fascist? 8 experts weigh in.
Call him a kleptocrat, an oligarch, a xenophobe, a racist, even an authoritarian. But he doesn’t quite fit the definition of a fascist.
Roger Griffin, emeritus professor in modern history, Oxford Brookes University
His relationship to democracy, I would really insist, is the key to answering whether he’s a fascist or not. Even in four years of incoherent and inconsistent tweets, he’s never actually done a Putin and tried to make himself a permanent president, let alone suggest any coherent plan for overthrowing the constitutional system. And I don’t even think that’s in his mind. He is an exploiter, he’s a freeloader. He’s a wheeler and dealer. And that is not the same as an ideologue.
So he’s absolutely not a fascist. He does not pose a challenge to constitutional democracy. He certainly poses a great challenge to liberalism and liberal democracy. And I think real favor will be served by journalists who, instead of seeing liberal democracy as a single entity, see it as a binomial. Democracy can exist without liberalism.
If I was doing this as a bottom line in some debate, I’d say that Trump is not a fascist, but what he is quite consistently is an illiberal democrat. He is a democrat to the extent that he’s used democratic processes to be where he is, which he doesn’t radically challenge. He obviously plays fast and loose, like any wheeler dealer, with things like the Supreme Court, who he gets in, etc. He doesn’t care about the rules, but the core system he doesn’t want to change, because he’s somebody who’s profited by that system.
Basically, I think it matters whether we call Trump fascist or not fascist, not academically or intellectually, but because it’s a red herring — it actually diverts attention from where we should be doing the critique. If all our intellectual energies are, like Don Quixote, jousting with windmills and fascism, instead of actually jousting with the real enemies of democracy, and using our energies to avert the climate crisis, which is going to engulf us all, if we’re not careful, then we’re wasting our time.
By not calling him fascist, and concentrating on the way he perverts democracy, we see Trump in a different context. We don’t see him as Hitler or Mussolini. We see him in a different rogues’ gallery. And the rogues’ gallery is made up of a whole load of dictators throughout history, including Putin and Erdogan and Orbán and Assad today, who have abused constitutionalism and democracy to rationalize their abuse of power and their crimes against humanity.
I agree with this take.
88m3
Fast Money & Foreign Objects
Trump’s base does not want to junk the US Constitution,or democracy, even if that’s the practical effect of their actions. They want to uphold it.
Delusional populist... well short of fascist.
Delusional populist... well short of fascist.
Words matter, using the term loosely could deny us important vocabulary to describe movements in the future that are worse and more “fascist” than Trump... who is nothing more than an incoherent nationalist-populist with sometimes destructive tendencies.He never posed a real threat to American democracy.
I’m sorry you are in fear of fascist regimes/camps...
Be easy.
Corny Batman
Caped Crusader
"The knives weren't that long and it was really still the afternoon."
Json
Superstar
We ain’t taking land. We didn’t run up in Syria like we should have. We barely want to be responsible for our proxy wars. Drone strikes won’t win you a war. Trump put Biden in a bind of commitment to leaving Afghanistan before the military industrial complex wanted to.
Our position in Asia is in concert with China’s neighbors. We ain’t going alone for glory of the American imperialism.
That ain’t fascism
mastermind
Rest In Power Kobe
We don’t need to take land. We are already there with our military bases and influencing governments.
We ain’t taking land. We didn’t run up in Syria like we should have. We barely want to be responsible for our proxy wars. Drone strikes won’t win you a war. Trump put Biden in a bind of commitment to leaving Afghanistan before the military industrial complex wanted to.
Our position in Asia is in concert with China’s neighbors. We ain’t going alone for glory of the American imperialism.
That ain’t fascism
We are also bombing many counties around the world as we speak.
So many Americans have little to no understanding of what’s happening away from here.
Json
Superstar
Which is what I said proxy wars and drone strikes
We’ve had bases around the world for decades.
You’re trying to force circumstances of Anti-American militarism into a discussion about rising fascism.
The violence and distrust in government are also hallmarks of insurrections and civil wars. There were anti-slavery violence before the Civil War in America and Lincoln was threatened with war, kidnapping plots if elected.
read a book
Hood Critic
The Power Circle
The thread's premise is the signs and indicators of the US heading towards embracing fascism. Yet I have people arguing that despite the fact Trump left office kicking and screaming, its the fact that he actually left office - ignoring the sh*tshow that's still ongoing - everything is all good and we're just being hyperbolic leftist.
Then there are people who believe that fascism is rooted and only viable in foreign military aggression
Donald Trump was neither a populist, fascist or even a Republican. He looked up to dictators because of his daddy issues and failed so bad at populism that Bannon quit. You would have to have literally just woke up today from a decades long sleep to not understand how his bumbling through the last 4 years made the exploitable holes in our system obvious. The man was a literal criminal who routinely committed crimes while in office and is free with a secret service detail to talk about it - all with a minority rule/base. A child could see where this is heading, it only takes someone slightly smarter than him to continue to push the country down the path. If he was such a failure to Republicans, they wouldn't have wholesale adopted his politics and covet his base.
Hood Critic
The Power Circle
He made phone calls(we all heard) desperately trying to secure a second term(within term limits) and was shyt on by state leaders, and sent packing.
I’m beginning to think the liberal definition(being used in this thread) of fascism is the issue.
What separates right-wing populism from fascism in your opinion?
For clarity, I’m defining terms as:
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy, which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.
Right-wing populism, also called national populism and right-wing nationalism, is a political ideology which combines right-wing politics and populist rhetoric and themes. The rhetoric often consists of anti-elitist and anti-intellectual sentiments, opposition to the Establishment, and speaking to the "common people".".
You don't think the overt white nationalism is an example of ultranationalism? The same white nationalist that even the FBI calls a threat to national security?
You don't think that voter suppression in deep red states or the Republican Senate leader intentionally stonewalling the other party to make them ineffective is a form of forcible suppression?
You don't think the hyperbolic comparisons of masks mandates to individual freedoms or the convenient fiscal austerity when it doesn't serve one groups interests isn't an example of a regimented society or economy?
No one is actively correcting any of the above, so do you think it gets better or worse from here?
You're trying really hard to deny where the people you share a lot of ideological commonality with are heading.
A lot better.
Hood Critic
The Power Circle
I wish I shared your bright eye optimism.
These things operate on a continuum. The same articles were written about France, Germany, and the UK in the lady decade.