IllmaticDelta
Veteran
I wouldn't say directly but fife and drum from mississippi has the same spirit/groove that you get in new orleans and hbcu bands.
Always thought this came from Africa or Caribbean ...actually it was New Orleans
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I wouldn't say directly but fife and drum from mississippi has the same spirit/groove that you get in new orleans and hbcu bands.
Maybe not as elaborate as what you see in New Orleans, but still being practiced in the present, nonetheless.
@IllmaticDelta isn't there a link between fife and drum and current day marching bands?
Where are the young peoples? As unique and and important as the culture is, it has to be passed on to the little ones
The Gullah geechee people are perceived to be one of the most "African" people not only amongst Aframs but new world blacks as a whole
That's why you have certain black foreigners who try to use them to say that they retained their "roots" compared to modern Aframs which is a whole other debatable subject
Yeah we’ve touched on that subject quite a few times on here, it’s an exhausting conversation to say the least.
I think the underlying issue is there’s a tendency to view AA subgroups, and/or the regions from which they reside in, as developing in spite of what’s considered greater AA culture, as opposed to developing within it.
So when it comes to the often brought up subject of African cultural retention, the idea is that any strong instances of it must come from an outside source, since it’s readily accepted by most that greater AA culture has been stripped for the most part.
This is what @Supper is getting at when he brings up the domestic slave trade. If there are proven instances of these same cultural traits being present in AA’s elsewhere, why wouldn’t AA’s be considered as the primary source when the numbers show that’s where the bulk of the population’s roots come from in the first place?
Ehh you asked for present day examples, not how strong the culture still is.
And btw, on that subject I absolutely agree with you and I love how yall keep it going no matter what. I kind of have a theory on why a place like NOLA is still holding a lot stronger than smaller rural locations when it comes to stuff like this, but I’m still working that out.
Ehh you asked for present day examples, not how strong the culture still is.
And btw, on that subject I absolutely agree with you and I love how yall keep it going no matter what. I kind of have a theory on why a place like NOLA is still holding a lot stronger than smaller rural locations when it comes to stuff like this, but I’m still working that out.
It’s been commodified, second lines crews charge for appearances, Masking crews charge for appearances. Which they should.
Katrina displaced a lot of people who had ties to the culture, the last 4 or 5 years you started to see it getting more popular. Its been a struggle tho, getting permits and hiring police isn’t cheap.
Second lines used to be a not so safe place to be, nikkas used to wild out. I think it’s safer now and that’s why you see so many people enjoying themselves.
It’s prime time now tho. Carnival season has started.
AAME : image
not sure if this has been posted in this thread or not, but it does show evidence of a strong Hatian influence in Louisiana
In January 1804, an event of enormous importance shook the world of the enslaved and their owners. The black revolutionaries, who had been fighting for a dozen years, crushed Napoleon's 60,000 men-army - which counted mercenaries from all over Europe - and proclaimed the nation of Haiti (the original Indian name of the island), the second independent nation in the Western Hemisphere and the world's first black-led republic. The impact of this victory of unarmed slaves against their oppressors was felt throughout the slave societies. In Louisiana, it sparked a confrontation at Bayou La Fourche. According to white residents, twelve Haitians from a passing vessel threatened them "with many insulting and menacing expressions" and "spoke of eating human flesh and in general demonstrated great Savageness of character, boasting of what they had seen and done in the horrors of St. Domingo [Saint Domingue]."
The slaveholders' anxieties increased and inspired a new series of statutes to isolate Louisiana from the spread of revolution. The ban on West Indian bondspeople continued and in June 1806 the territorial legislature barred the entry from the French Caribbean of free black males over the age of fourteen. A year later, the prohibition was extended: all free black adult males were excluded, regardless of their nationality. Severe punishments, including enslavement, accompanied the new laws.
However, American efforts to prevent the entry of Haitian immigrants proved even less successful than those of the French and the Spanish. Indeed, the number of immigrants skyrocketed between May 1809 and June 1810, when Spanish authorities expelled thousands of Haitians from Cuba, where they had taken refuge several years earlier. In the wake of this action, New Orleans' Creole whites overcame their chronic fears and clamored for the entry of the white refugees and their slaves. Their objective was to strengthen Louisiana's declining French-speaking community and offset Anglo-American influence. The white Creoles felt that the increasing American presence posed a greater threat to their interests than a potentially dangerous class of enslaved West Indians.
American officials bowed to their pressure and reluctantly allowed white émigrés to enter the city with their slaves. At the same time, however, they attempted to halt the migration of free black refugees. Louisiana's territorial governor, William C. C. Claiborne, firmly enforced the ban on free black males. He advised the American consul in Santiago de Cuba:
Males above the age of fifteen, have . . . been ordered to depart. - I must request you, Sir, to make known this circumstance and also to discourage free people of colour of every description from emigrating to the Territory of Orleans; We have already a much greater proportion of that population than comports with the general Interest.
Brehs were pawgin
Claiborne and other officials labored in vain; the population of Afro-Creoles grew larger and even more assertive after the entry of the Haitian émigrés from Cuba, nearly 90 percent of whom settled in New Orleans. The 1809 migration brought 2,731 whites, 3,102 free persons of African descent, and 3,226 enslaved refugees to the city, doubling its population. Sixty-three percent of Crescent City inhabitants were now black. Among the nation's major cities only Charleston, with a 53 percent black majority, was comparable.
The multiracial refugee population settled in the French Quarter and the neighboring Faubourg Marigny district, and revitalized Creole culture and institutions. New Orleans acquired a reputation as the nation's "Creole Capital."
The rapid growth of the city's population of free persons of color strengthened the "three-caste" society - white, mixed, black - that had developed during the years of French and Spanish rule. This was quite different from the racial order prevailing in the rest of the United States, where attempts were made to confine all persons of African descent to a separate and inferior racial caste - a situation brought about by political reality in the South that promoted white unity across class lines and the immersion of all blacks into a single and subservient social caste.
In Louisiana, as lawmakers moved to suppress manumission and undermine the free black presence, the refugees dealt a serious blow to their efforts. In 1810 the city's French-speaking Creoles of African descent, reinforced by thousands of Haitian refugees, formed the basis for the emergence of one of the most advanced black communities in North America.
not sure if this has been posted in this thread or not, but it does show evidence of a strong Hatian influence in Louisiana
In January 1804, an event of enormous importance shook the world of the enslaved and their owners. The black revolutionaries, who had been fighting for a dozen years, crushed Napoleon's 60,000 men-army - which counted mercenaries from all over Europe - and proclaimed the nation of Haiti (the original Indian name of the island), the second independent nation in the Western Hemisphere and the world's first black-led republic. The impact of this victory of unarmed slaves against their oppressors was felt throughout the slave societies. In Louisiana, it sparked a confrontation at Bayou La Fourche. According to white residents, twelve Haitians from a passing vessel threatened them "with many insulting and menacing expressions" and "spoke of eating human flesh and in general demonstrated great Savageness of character, boasting of what they had seen and done in the horrors of St. Domingo [Saint Domingue]."
The slaveholders' anxieties increased and inspired a new series of statutes to isolate Louisiana from the spread of revolution. The ban on West Indian bondspeople continued and in June 1806 the territorial legislature barred the entry from the French Caribbean of free black males over the age of fourteen. A year later, the prohibition was extended: all free black adult males were excluded, regardless of their nationality. Severe punishments, including enslavement, accompanied the new laws.
However, American efforts to prevent the entry of Haitian immigrants proved even less successful than those of the French and the Spanish. Indeed, the number of immigrants skyrocketed between May 1809 and June 1810, when Spanish authorities expelled thousands of Haitians from Cuba, where they had taken refuge several years earlier. In the wake of this action, New Orleans' Creole whites overcame their chronic fears and clamored for the entry of the white refugees and their slaves. Their objective was to strengthen Louisiana's declining French-speaking community and offset Anglo-American influence. The white Creoles felt that the increasing American presence posed a greater threat to their interests than a potentially dangerous class of enslaved West Indians.
American officials bowed to their pressure and reluctantly allowed white émigrés to enter the city with their slaves. At the same time, however, they attempted to halt the migration of free black refugees. Louisiana's territorial governor, William C. C. Claiborne, firmly enforced the ban on free black males. He advised the American consul in Santiago de Cuba:
Males above the age of fifteen, have . . . been ordered to depart. - I must request you, Sir, to make known this circumstance and also to discourage free people of colour of every description from emigrating to the Territory of Orleans; We have already a much greater proportion of that population than comports with the general Interest.
Brehs were pawgin
Claiborne and other officials labored in vain; the population of Afro-Creoles grew larger and even more assertive after the entry of the Haitian émigrés from Cuba, nearly 90 percent of whom settled in New Orleans. The 1809 migration brought 2,731 whites, 3,102 free persons of African descent, and 3,226 enslaved refugees to the city, doubling its population. Sixty-three percent of Crescent City inhabitants were now black. Among the nation's major cities only Charleston, with a 53 percent black majority, was comparable.
The multiracial refugee population settled in the French Quarter and the neighboring Faubourg Marigny district, and revitalized Creole culture and institutions. New Orleans acquired a reputation as the nation's "Creole Capital."
The rapid growth of the city's population of free persons of color strengthened the "three-caste" society - white, mixed, black - that had developed during the years of French and Spanish rule. This was quite different from the racial order prevailing in the rest of the United States, where attempts were made to confine all persons of African descent to a separate and inferior racial caste - a situation brought about by political reality in the South that promoted white unity across class lines and the immersion of all blacks into a single and subservient social caste.
In Louisiana, as lawmakers moved to suppress manumission and undermine the free black presence, the refugees dealt a serious blow to their efforts. In 1810 the city's French-speaking Creoles of African descent, reinforced by thousands of Haitian refugees, formed the basis for the emergence of one of the most advanced black communities in North America.
more
The second migratory path followed by the runaways contrasted sharply with the urban migration. It led into the most remote, isolated backcountry, dense forests, bayous, swamps, or Indian territories. There, the fugitives formed maroon communities - organized enclaves of runaways-that developed in the earliest days and continued through abolition. As early as 1690, farmers in Harlem, New York, were complaining about the inhabitants of a maroon colony who were attacking the settlers.
The first known free black community in North America was a settlement of fugitive Africans called Gracia Real de Santa Teresa de Mose. Located near St. Augustine in Spanish Florida, it operated from 1739 to 1763.
Some runaways established camps in Elliott's Cut, between the Ashepoo and Pon Pon rivers in South Carolina; and in the Indian nations of Alabama and Mississippi. In the eighteenth century, others had taken refuge in Spanish Florida with the Seminole Indians. Black and native Seminoles joined forces against the U.S. army during two wars in 1812 and 1835. In 1822, the sub-agent for the Florida Indians wrote:
It will be difficult (says he) to form a prudent determination with respect to the ‘maroon negroes' (Exiles), who live among the Indians . . . . They fear being again made slaves, under the American Government, and will omit nothing to increase or keep alive mistrust among the Indians, whom they in fact govern. If it should become necessary to use force with them, it is to be feared that the Indians will take their part. It will, however, be necessary to remove from the Floridas this group of freebooters, among whom runaway Negroes will always find a refuge. It will, perhaps, be possible to have them received at St. Domingo, or to furnish them means of withdrawing from the United States
AAME : Home
During the century of the domestic trade, roughly equal numbers of males and females were sold away. The exception was the Louisiana sugar plantations, whose population made up some 6 percent of the nation’s enslaved. Importation to New Orleans, where many sugar planters bought their enslaved workers, was about 58 percent male, and traders sent very few young children to that market. The exhausting labor in the cane fields took an exceptionally heavy toll on the laborers’ health, and the demands of the sugar planters meant that the southern Louisiana market tended to import particularly strong workers.
The second migratory path followed by the runaways contrasted sharply with the urban migration. It led into the most remote, isolated backcountry, dense forests, bayous, swamps, or Indian territories. There, the fugitives formed maroon communities - organized enclaves of runaways-that developed in the earliest days and continued through abolition. As early as 1690, farmers in Harlem, New York, were complaining about the inhabitants of a maroon colony who were attacking the settlers.
The first known free black community in North America was a settlement of fugitive Africans called Gracia Real de Santa Teresa de Mose. Located near St. Augustine in Spanish Florida, it operated from 1739 to 1763.
Some runaways established camps in Elliott's Cut, between the Ashepoo and Pon Pon rivers in South Carolina; and in the Indian nations of Alabama and Mississippi. In the eighteenth century, others had taken refuge in Spanish Florida with the Seminole Indians. Black and native Seminoles joined forces against the U.S. army during two wars in 1812 and 1835. In 1822, the sub-agent for the Florida Indians wrote:
It will be difficult (says he) to form a prudent determination with respect to the ‘maroon negroes' (Exiles), who live among the Indians . . . . They fear being again made slaves, under the American Government, and will omit nothing to increase or keep alive mistrust among the Indians, whom they in fact govern. If it should become necessary to use force with them, it is to be feared that the Indians will take their part. It will, however, be necessary to remove from the Floridas this group of freebooters, among whom runaway Negroes will always find a refuge. It will, perhaps, be possible to have them received at St. Domingo, or to furnish them means of withdrawing from the United States
AAME : Home
During the century of the domestic trade, roughly equal numbers of males and females were sold away. The exception was the Louisiana sugar plantations, whose population made up some 6 percent of the nation’s enslaved. Importation to New Orleans, where many sugar planters bought their enslaved workers, was about 58 percent male, and traders sent very few young children to that market. The exhausting labor in the cane fields took an exceptionally heavy toll on the laborers’ health, and the demands of the sugar planters meant that the southern Louisiana market tended to import particularly strong workers.
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get these nets
Veteran
AAME : image
not sure if this has been posted in this thread or not, but it does show evidence of a strong Hatian influence in LouisianaIn January 1804, an event of enormous importance shook the world of the enslaved and their owners. The black revolutionaries, who had been fighting for a dozen years, crushed Napoleon's 60,000 men-army - which counted mercenaries from all over Europe - and proclaimed the nation of Haiti (the original Indian name of the island), the second independent nation in the Western Hemisphere and the world's first black-led republic. The impact of this victory of unarmed slaves against their oppressors was felt throughout the slave societies. In Louisiana, it sparked a confrontation at Bayou La Fourche. According to white residents, twelve Haitians from a passing vessel threatened them "with many insulting and menacing expressions" and "spoke of eating human flesh and in general demonstrated great Savageness of character, boasting of what they had seen and done in the horrors of St. Domingo [Saint Domingue]."
The slaveholders' anxieties increased and inspired a new series of statutes to isolate Louisiana from the spread of revolution. The ban on West Indian bondspeople continued and in June 1806 the territorial legislature barred the entry from the French Caribbean of free black males over the age of fourteen. A year later, the prohibition was extended: all free black adult males were excluded, regardless of their nationality. Severe punishments, including enslavement, accompanied the new laws.
However, American efforts to prevent the entry of Haitian immigrants proved even less successful than those of the French and the Spanish. Indeed, the number of immigrants skyrocketed between May 1809 and June 1810, when Spanish authorities expelled thousands of Haitians from Cuba, where they had taken refuge several years earlier. In the wake of this action, New Orleans' Creole whites overcame their chronic fears and clamored for the entry of the white refugees and their slaves. Their objective was to strengthen Louisiana's declining French-speaking community and offset Anglo-American influence. The white Creoles felt that the increasing American presence posed a greater threat to their interests than a potentially dangerous class of enslaved West Indians.
American officials bowed to their pressure and reluctantly allowed white émigrés to enter the city with their slaves. At the same time, however, they attempted to halt the migration of free black refugees. Louisiana's territorial governor, William C. C. Claiborne, firmly enforced the ban on free black males. He advised the American consul in Santiago de Cuba:
Males above the age of fifteen, have . . . been ordered to depart. - I must request you, Sir, to make known this circumstance and also to discourage free people of colour of every description from emigrating to the Territory of Orleans; We have already a much greater proportion of that population than comports with the general Interest.
Brehs were pawgin
Claiborne and other officials labored in vain; the population of Afro-Creoles grew larger and even more assertive after the entry of the Haitian émigrés from Cuba, nearly 90 percent of whom settled in New Orleans. The 1809 migration brought 2,731 whites, 3,102 free persons of African descent, and 3,226 enslaved refugees to the city, doubling its population. Sixty-three percent of Crescent City inhabitants were now black. Among the nation's major cities only Charleston, with a 53 percent black majority, was comparable.
The multiracial refugee population settled in the French Quarter and the neighboring Faubourg Marigny district, and revitalized Creole culture and institutions. New Orleans acquired a reputation as the nation's "Creole Capital."
The rapid growth of the city's population of free persons of color strengthened the "three-caste" society - white, mixed, black - that had developed during the years of French and Spanish rule. This was quite different from the racial order prevailing in the rest of the United States, where attempts were made to confine all persons of African descent to a separate and inferior racial caste - a situation brought about by political reality in the South that promoted white unity across class lines and the immersion of all blacks into a single and subservient social caste.
In Louisiana, as lawmakers moved to suppress manumission and undermine the free black presence, the refugees dealt a serious blow to their efforts. In 1810 the city's French-speaking Creoles of African descent, reinforced by thousands of Haitian refugees, formed the basis for the emergence of one of the most advanced black communities in North America.
It was alluded to but not posted. The reluctance to accept the mixed race St Domingue/Haitian men into N.O. was about economic competition. SD was home of some of the wealthiest colonists/planters in the world....their mulatto children often received world class educations and training equal to that of the white children of rich men. I also think the inheritance laws in French territory allowed transer of wealth to these mulatto children. That group had been lobbying for equal protection/rights to whites from the French govt. before the Revolution.
Petit blancs, or regular whites without wealth/status resented the educated mixed race men in SD, and it follows that they would be resented in newly Anglo New Orleans by regular whites and by whites with wealth .
Decent documentary about the Haitian Revolution that I picked up
covers all parties involved ..enslaved Africans, gens de couleur, petit blanc, grande blancs
you can watch it on YT
covers all parties involved ..enslaved Africans, gens de couleur, petit blanc, grande blancs
you can watch it on YT
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IllmaticDelta
Veteran
Ehh you asked for present day examples, not how strong the culture still is.
And btw, on that subject I absolutely agree with you and I love how yall keep it going no matter what. I kind of have a theory on why a place like NOLA is still holding a lot stronger than smaller rural locations when it comes to stuff like this, but I’m still working that out.
they still doing it
IllmaticDelta
Veteran
those are the gullah/sea islanders
North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida: Gullah Geechee Cultural Heritage Corridor (U.S. National Park Service)
I figured as much
a lot of info has been posted in this thread, I hope others have learned as much as I have . I appreciate everyone’s efforts.
I’ll be using some of this info to aid in my family research efforts
Pit Bull
GATOR
I've noticed over the years a lot of New Orleans nikkas be on someit ain't only the light skinned creoles either.
We know it was Jean Claude instead of Johnny Lee nikka but they still cacs and you still a nikka.
Even seen some Gullah nikkas shareviews towards "mainstream" African Americans
it ain't only the light skinned creoles either.We know it was Jean Claude instead of Johnny Lee nikka but they still cacs and you still a nikka.
Even seen some Gullah nikkas share
views towards "mainstream" African Americans
I've noticed over the years a lot of New Orleans nikkas be on some
We know it was Jean Claude instead of Johnny Lee nikka but they still cacs and you still a nikka.
Even seen some Gullah nikkas share
Everyone wants to be the special negro and will use any justification they can find to separate themselves from the pack that is AADOS.
Being from H-town I gotta say NO people, on average, are the WORST. We were forced to deal with them folk and they
mentality in mass after Katrina.The amount of times I've heard some slick shyt from them about our Zydeco culture in Houston and how we "stole" it and creole culture from them as if the music didn't developed in my city's Frenchtown 5th ward, and New Orleans didn't have shyt to do with it until after HOUSTON developed it and made it popular, and furthermore how Houston creole culture & heritage as a whole ain't got shyt to do with New Orleans but is rooted in rural SWLA.
And furthermore they like to act like all AA culture started in their city and that they're the most exotic and unique AA culture out there, yet they don't realize just how much of their culture is borrowed/inherited from AAs outside their city and state. Me and @IllmaticDelta already touched on some, but here's another example to drive the point home.
They inherited boogie woogie piano style, which started in the NETX piney woods, and later incorporated the boogie bassline into their jazz and blues and it was brought there by two Houston boogie woogie pianist, the Thomas brothers.
Riverwalk Jazz - Stanford University Libraries
Some of them are so
they would rather attribute cultural aspects like that to Europeans, Native Americans, Caribbeans, a direct African connection, or anything but the AADOS from which it actually came to make themselves seem exotic.The nerve of the arrogance of these folk towards us after seeking refuge in our city with nothing but the clothes on their backs.
Not to mention how they got handled and ran up out my city on a street level after they came over here and thought they're were gonna flex nuts.
TI really was King of the South
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