Always thought this came from Africa or Caribbean ...actually it was New Orleans
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Seminole Trail of Tears
Seminole Nation, I. T. - Trail of Tears (Westward Movement)
Some NO people actually believe that black seminoles originate in New Orleans and are only found in their city.
get these nets
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N.O. was unique in many ways, perhaps the most significant for this discussion was that it had the LARGEST community of FREE Blacks in the United States.Largest concentration of non-White (Black) wealth in the entire country in the 19th century.
In fact, I'm amazed at the details of the true wealth and land holdings that N.O. Creoles had, and how well educated their children tended to be because of that wealth. Including private instruction or being sent to Europe to study. Some of the Creoles who became musicians were taught how to read and write music across Europe or from the French and Spanish institutions in New Orleans.
Not surprising that a person from that social group, Jelly Roll Morton's mark in music history is being the first one to put jazz music in published form/composition . Having access to ALL of the musical influences that came into New Orleans..as well as the formal musical instruction .
I have pages of Jelly Roll's biography where he talks about the privileges that being part of the N.O. Creole community granted access to him , even not being from one of the more prominent families.
He details his family attending the local French opera house concerts, how he took private music lessons (from a Spaniard) at 6 years old , taking music lessons at St Joseph's University as a young man, and other private lessons from accomplished musicians/instructors as a young man. That wouldn't have been rare for a child born in that social circle, Morton was just an exceptional talent.
actual pages and link in the spoiler
So for the last time, when Morton writes of the Spanish tinge that HE believes is essential to playing jazz, it is not mis-speaking, it is not "he didn't know "....it's a man who has had access to all kinds of influences, training, performances, and music detailing DIRECTLY what he's talking about.
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Seminole Trail of Tears
Seminole Nation, I. T. - Trail of Tears (Westward Movement)
Some NO people actually believe that black seminoles originate in New Orleans and are only found in their city.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say that. Most chiefs of masking tribes acknowledge their Indian ancestry and how they got here.
Big Chief Kenny “KliK” Young Black Seminole
I’m done going back and forth . I know our culture is UNIQUE. Because I haven’t seen it expressed like it is here. I never claimed we were exotic or like Haiti.... I never discredited the influences of Africans that were transported here from other parts of the country.
IllmaticDelta
Veteran
Bill Pickett's family came from a South Carolina cattle rancher family to Texas and basically to a large degree laid the foundation for the POPULAR image of black cowboy/rodeo culture in the gulf coast and other places outside the region
NOW I GOT THIS SONG STUCK IN MY HEAD.
*Third largest in in the south. But, the largest in the Deep south. Charleston SC comes next.
Upper south cities like Baltimore and DC had higher populations of free blacks.
Rich History Of Underground Railroad Runs Just Outside Of Washington | WAMU
South Carolina - Free Persons of Color Demographics in Charleston Before the Civil War
It goes:
1. Baltimore
2. DC
3. New Orleans
4. Charleston
Maryland had the highest of any state overall.
IllmaticDelta
Veteran
what are your thoughts on my post here
https://www.thecoli.com/threads/alw...-was-new-orleans.676669/page-17#post-32576362
Bill Pickett's family came from a South Carolina cattle rancher family to Texas and basically to a large degree laid the foundation for the POPULAR image of black cowboy/rodeo culture in the gulf coast and other places outside the region
Naw, man. We don't got no dirty Carolina African-American roots.
We come from a beautiful Latin Afro-Tejano exotical mix of Spanish conquistadors who fell in love with gorgeous African and Indian women in Tejas. We Afro-Tejanos have more in common with Afro-Latinos in Veracruz Mehico and Bueno Aires Argentina than dirty anglo AA South Carolina.
yuck.
IllmaticDelta
Veteran
IllmaticDelta
Veteran
what about the other points I made?
When I first got into this discussion I commented that the problem I had with you posted was the term African American, especially in the early 19th century, I don’t think there was enough difference between African slaves transported here via boat and land.
I do not transpose the word creole to mean all black people in the city. I never attributed second lining , or Jazz funerals to any other culture or people other than the ones who came here from Africa.
Bamboula traditions are still celebrated in the city, that footwork is still on display
I tell people that New Orleans is the most African city in the United States.
IllmaticDelta
Veteran
most african base culture in america was already creolized by 1800 so u's pretty safe to say, they were solidly "african american" by that time
It shows the percentage of disembarked slaves from documented slavevoyages according to century of arrival. A couple of things standing out:
- The Hispanic Americas received most of the earliest arrivals (1500’s/1600’s), relatively speaking and specifically the Dominican Republic (“Santo Domingo”) and Central America (incl. Mexico and Colombia).
- Puerto Rico and especially Cuba however show a big share of late arrivals (1800’s). The same goes for Trinidad and southeast Brazil. Historians often assume that socalled African retention (the preservation of ethnically/regionally recognizably African cultural heritage) is most noticeable for places where slave imports continued the longest into the 1800’s while Creolization is assumed to be most pronounced for regions where slave imports were mostly in the 1600’s/1700’s.
- Most of the English and French speaking Caribbean as well as the USA fall in between. Meaning that for Afro-descendants in these countries most of their African born ancestors can be traced to the 1700’s.
In North America, the African population that came over as slaves had begun to reproduce itself by the 1730s. Before the 1730s, the Black population had to be constantly replenished by the slave trade, because most Blacks either died without reproducing or died before reaching adulthood. During the 1730s this changed and what emerged was a locally-born African-American population that we call creole Blacks. These creole Blacks were the first African Americans, and their process of bridging African and American worlds is what we refer to as creolization. African-Americans creoles, born after the 1730s, were unlike their ancestors in many respects because they were born in America. By about 1820, almost 90 percent of Black American slaves were American-born. We must, therefore, distinguish the African-born population, which became quite negligible by 1800, and the American-born Creole population that became dominant after 1820, because African-American culture begins with this Creole population. “
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From African to Creole
for what we're talking about creoles = catholic franco africans
you said the uniqueness of those as oppose to afram culture in other regions was because of the catholic-franco african orgins until you got proven otherwise
it's debatable. Sea Islands/low country has something to say about that
^take note of that that later arriving stock into south carolina
it's debatable. Sea Islands/low country has something to say about that
^take note of that that later arriving stock into south carolina
Honestly, I'd say the MS hill country might have a leg up on NO in that regard as well, especially in regards to music.
The don't have the surviving creole language, but what other place do you have a strong tradition of banjo, quills, and blues fife(all african instruments) and such prominent drumming call and response folk music playing in the US that is almost identical to flute and drum music in the Sahel of west africa.
But, yeah, Charleston, SC and the GA and SC sea islands are easily more 'African' culturally than New Orleans.
This is a complete blow out especially if you include ALL of SC to include the facejugs
